Taijitu v. Govindia

[Allama]

I'm afraid I must concur with Gallipoli-China on this issue, both legally and as a matter of reasonability.  As to this being the first time these particular offenses have been mentioned, harassment/provocation/flame-baiting were brought up a number of times in discussions related to this trial both on the forum and in IRC.  When I was slated as a witness for the Defense, in fact, I was asked to submit statements on Govindia/Ramaba's character especially in relation to the way he interacts with others and whether or not his behavior was harassing/provoking in nature.

[The G Rebellion]

I third the statements of my fellow justices. Defense counsel, the role of the justice is to consider the evidence presented and make a conclusion, though we will take your objections into consideration, it is of course, subject to judges interpretation as to whether or not it is valid. Each counsel may of course ask for us to ignore a specific piece of evidence and post a reason why. I personally feel the justices will decide, during their period of evaluation, what evidence, if any, should be ignored. And I believe that outside witnesses may be called but the amount of weight that their testimonies may carry is likely to be based on the judges knowledge of the witness.

And prosecution counsel, please, refrain from using any derogatory terms in this thread for the period of the trial, unless directly necessary to your argument. The defense are expected to follow the same rule. 

TGR.

[PoD Gunner]

Thank You, Your Honors.

What the defense wants to prevent is that the character of the defendant and his history of causing trouble in NS be revealed. Anybody who has a slight clue of how this game works and has seen a history of previous cases, will know that there is no such thing as a player behaving at its best in one place and at its worst in another. Govindia is "famous" for his actions around the NS world, but the defense wants you to forget that, as if in such cases it would be possible to have a complete picture while ignoring anything that does not strictly relate with the technical charge itself.

I ask the defense to take the time and read the statement of Limitless Events, and make an attempt to honestly understand how this decision was reached. It is obvious they have either not read it, not payed attention while doing so or have not been willing to comprehend it. If they did, they might not be asking this Court how

2. The dissemination of private materials of any Citizen of Taijitu as defined in Section 3 of this article shall be forbidden, excepting where authorized by that Citizen or Citizens, or by a warrant of the Supreme Court of Taijitu issued on probable cause.

can constitute a potential danger to the security of the region. I must assume that this lack of understanding also derives from the fact that the defense team has a rather limited understanding of Intel Operations in NS and the way they work, for which I would kindly ask them again to refer to the answers of Limitless Events.

And again I must return to the oath the defendant has taken. If the defense assumes that breaking the citizenship oath is a matter that throws no light at all on the character of the one standing trial today, well I must say that is one interesting perspective on things. Breaking the oath of citizenship is a very serious offense. Breaking articles from the Criminal Code that protect the privacy and the well being of Taijituan citizens in these forums, is also rather serious. You mean to say that these things have no bearings on the main and official reason stated as motivation for the "forum restriction"? I really do hope that the Court will see things from another perspective, while I can see that Senators of this region chose to fight over technicalities instead of realizing what a threat and a danger to the security of Taijitu can mean.

And before we proceed with the testimonies, I just wanted to remind my colleague who is defending today that

Quote
First of all please make the effort to address me with my full name: it is PoD Gunner. Thank You.
I will, but would you please make an effort to make note that Gov was NOT banned. He was given a restriction.

showing respect for my person and character in Taijitu should not be bargained with obtaining a certain point of view from me on a technical matter. That is of no relevance to this trial, however the deposition of NS Flemingovia, former Delegate of the region (especially at the time of Govindia's banning....errrr forum restriction) and a player known and respected by the entire NS world, might be (I have taken the liberty of highlighting the ending phrase, which I consider explanatory for this particular case) :

< 07GMT > --- Interview with Flemingovia, Former Delegate of Taijitu on the topic of Govindia's baning from the region -----
< 07GMT > this interview will be logged and can be presented as testimony in the trial of Taijitu vs Govindia

< 07GMT > First of all, Sir, please state your forum name and position in Taijitu.
< 12flemingovia > My forum name is Flemingovia, and my Taijituan nation is "Taijituan Flemingovia". I do not hold any official position in Taijitu at the moment other than Senator.
< 12flemingovia > At the time of the banning of Govindia I was delegate following the resignation of Sovereign Dixie.
< 07GMT > Thank You. You were Delegate of the region at the time that the ... let's call it forum restriction of Govindia has taken place. Can you please tell me, in your own words, how you came to know about this action from the 5th of October, 2007 and what your reaction was.
< 12flemingovia > I had been aware for some time that a number of people, in many regions, had concerns about Govindia's conduct, motives and trustworthiness. This seemed to me to have two main foci: First, there were concerns that he was a destructive presence in many regions he was involved in. I had seen for myself how a number of people, for example, left IRC channels vowing never to return so long as he was present. Second: There were grave concerns about his trustworthiness and he is regarded in many quarters as a security risk.
< 12flemingovia > on or around 5th October I was approached by Limitless events.
< 12flemingovia > I do not have a log of that conversation (maybe Limi does?) so you will have to forgive me if my memory is sketchy. Limi said that he had restricted Gov's forum access because, as root admin, Gov was considered to be a security risk. Limi did not give specific details, but said that he was acting on intel information he had received.
< 12flemingovia > I will repeat to you what I said to the defence:
< 12flemingovia > n such situations, my instinct as delegate is always to look to the interests of the region as a whole. Having reviewed the evidence from TWP and Taijitu, and discussed the matter with Limi, I concluded that this individual was a credible risk to the security and well being of Taijitu. Therefore I confirmed the ban.
< 12flemingovia > My reaction?
< 12flemingovia > I  was not terribly surprised. By this point I had got to know Gov somewhat, and personally had grown uneasy about his conduct and suspicious as to his motives and trustworthiness.
< 12flemingovia > Nothing in my experience of Govindia since 5th October, in Taijitu or other regions, has convinced me that the steps taken on 5th October were not the correct ones and in the best interests of Taijitu.
< 07GMT > I would like to define a bit, for those who are unaware of it, to your NS expertise in matter of security and Intel.
< 07GMT > Could you please tell me what your experience in these domains is.
< 12flemingovia > I am root admin on a feeder forum
< 12flemingovia > And it is suggested in some quarters that I am head of Intel for that same feeder.
< 12flemingovia > the North Pacific Intel Agency
< 12flemingovia > I have been involved in espionage many times in NS.
< 12flemingovia > Both in terms of managing agents and acting as a sleeper myself. (Not on behalf of TNP, by the way)
< 12flemingovia > I am well used to evaluating Intel and security threats.
< 07GMT > Thank You.
< 07GMT > In this capacity, could you please tell me, more to the point, why you do believe that the defendant Govindia posed a threat to the regional security, from your point of view?
< 12flemingovia > I think I would have to preface that by saying that I am not involved in Intel in Taijitu, nor am I a forum admin with access to IP addresses etc. So to an extent I have to trust those who do have such involvement and access.
< 12flemingovia > I would also need to say that Intel is a shadowy world - it often depends on judgment calls based on instinct as much as proof. And as delegate I chose to trust the judgment of Limi whose access and involvement in this matter was far greater than mine.
< 07GMT > Thank you for these considerations.
< 07GMT > Based on what you were shown in terms of "proof" by the Root Limitless Events, how did you evaluate the threat posed by Govindia?
< 12flemingovia > But, to the matter in hand: I was informed that Gov had been poking around and passing on stuff in various regions, including Taijitu, and also posting and passing on information from various private forum areas.
< 12flemingovia > There was also passed Intel evidence from TWP which I am not at liberty to share, since it was passed on in confidence, and would cause a major diplomatic argument with a feeder if it were to be made public.
< 12flemingovia > I think, based on my recollection of conversations at the time with Limi, that the forum restriction was as much about neutralising a threat as it was about punishing an action.
< 07GMT > We are aware of those happenings and the TWP Delegate TAO has not been able to allow such evidence to be made public from the very same reason.
< 07GMT > Flemingovia, with Taijitu's best interest at heart, please tell us again
< 07GMT > do you consider Govindia's "forum restriction" to be a correct decision and in the best interest of the region?
< 12flemingovia > Absolutely.
< 12flemingovia > As a foundered nation we are not in danger of coups.
< 12flemingovia > BUT
< 12flemingovia > A NS community is a very fragile thing.
< 12flemingovia > in a forum environment one person can wreak havoc, if unchecked.
< 12flemingovia > Taijitu has gone more than the extra mile with Gov. He has been offered support, help, and counsel for months.
< 12flemingovia > And all he brings is discord and trouble.
< 07GMT > Is there anything else you would like to add?
< 12flemingovia > Even if there was not the matter of his being a security risk, I do not think the decision to limit him would be a wrong one. Sometimes government has to -put the needs of the community before that of an individual.
< 12flemingovia > One last thing: No doubt there are those who will look at the above and say that those in authority in Taijitu acted in a draconian manner, and poor Govindia has been badly, even illegally, treated. I would add that in the year I have been in Taijitu any individual restrictions have been very rare events,
< 12flemingovia > and taken after a long period of soul searching. This is not a high-handed region.
< 07GMT > Thank You, Sir.

< 07GMT > ---- End of Interview Session with Flemingovia ---

We would also like to present before the Honorable Court, a second testimony given by the player Korinn, which we consider relevant to this case because he is one of the oldest members of Taijitu, has headed the MoEA for several terms and has gathered an also respectable amount of experience and expertise regarding security and Intel matters. Korinn also is a Taijituan who I have seen stand up and fight for the well-being and the good-name of the region, in moments when others have preferred to stay quiet. I know that the most of us in Taijitu have a great deal of respect for him. Again, I have highlighted his closing sentence. Here is his deposition:

< 07GMT > --- Interview Session with Korinn on the topic of Govindia's baning from the region ---
< 07GMT > this interview will be logged and can be presented as testimony in the trial of Taijitu vs Govindia

< 07GMT > First of all, Sir, please state your forum name and position in Taijitu.
< 06Korinn > I'm Korinn. I'm Vice-Delegate, Minister of External Affairs, and a Senator.
< 07GMT > Could you also please state how long you have been in Taijitu and what your different responsabilities in the region have been?
< 06Korinn > I joined Taijitu on it's first day after being invited by Eluvatar on IRC. I became a Senator in February and was later asked to be TGR's Deputy Minister of External Affairs. He experienced RL  problems and I took the reins. I have been Minister since then. As the minister I maintain the embassies and assign ambassadors to foreign regions. I also write the Regional Update. I have also been a recruiter for many months.
< 07GMT > Your NS history hasn't though started with Taijitu, so I assume that we can rely also on your previous experience in matters of regional security and international relations. Is that correct?
< 06Korinn > Yes
< 07GMT > There is yet another aspect of your role in Taijitu I would like to show to the Court.
< 07GMT > You have been not just a name on a list of Ministers, but a very living presence in this region. In fact, if I recall correctly, your incipient enthusiasm has also been met with a critical eye by some and you have undergone a security-check.
< 07GMT > What does this region mean to You, Sir?
< 06Korinn > This region is the only reason I still play NS. Were it not for the friends I have made here this game would mean nothing. In fact I had thought of quitting until Elu invited me here. I would defend Taijitu and my friends in it with every fiber of my being. They are more than friends, they are an extended family to me. I love the friends I've made and I love this region.
* GMT smiles
< 07GMT > Thank You.
< 06Korinn > You're Welcome.
< 07GMT > Well, Sir, let us come to the topic of this here interview.
< 07GMT > You are aware of the forum-restriction of the player Govindia.
< 06Korinn > I am.
< 07GMT > Could you please, in your own words, describe for us your personal experience with the above-mentioned player?
< 06Korinn > Well, I have dealt with him on 2 levels. Socially on IRC and Professionally within the region. He applied to be an Ambassador when he came to Taijitu. I had previous knowledge of his behaviour in other regions, but I figured I'd give him a chance. He immediately shirked his duties as Ambassador, which made me quite angry. He begged for days about it and when I gave him the position, he took his sweet time to do the job assigned.
< 06Korinn >  On a social level, he was always nagging people and myself about something. He is stubborn and refuses to drop anything until people agree with him. He would be asked repeatedly to change topics, but would always refuse. He even once ridiculed something I hold dear IRL. He is insulting at times to peoples choice of lifestyle or choices they make in there life if they don't match his.
< 07GMT > How would you evaluate the effects of his presence in Taijitu?
< 06Korinn > Completely and utterly negative. He has made life hard for more than one person in the region. Causing unneeded stress and suffering.
< 06Korinn > His pre-trial behavior alone proves he cares nothing for this region.
< 07GMT > Do you believe that he has been treated fair by Taijitu's government and administration, considering this situation, prior to his "forum restriction"?
< 06Korinn > I do. He was given many chances to change his behavior. He was even given an opportunity to do a job and he pretty much squandered it. In my opinion all he wants is fancy titles.
< 07GMT > One last question : How do you evaluate the accusation of 'security threat' that has been labeled on Govindia upon his 'forum restriction'?
< 06Korinn > I see that as being a two part thing. On one side, he is a possible in-game threat. He could pass information to other regions if allowed access. There have been rumors, and they might just be that, but rumors that he has already spied on anther region once before. The second side is a threat to the players themselves. He has pestered some people to the point that they don't want to be around. That could seriously hurt Taijitu.
< 07GMT > Thank You, Sir.

< 07GMT > ---- End of Interview Session with Korinn---

[PoD Gunner]

Your Honors,

as You have gracefully admitted, testimonies of outside players should not be the primary ground for an internal action in Taijitu, but considering that outside views are always more objective and that the negative or positive history of a player in NS does tend to follow her/him around, I have taken the liberty of collecting the statements of some NS players that have experienced the defendant's actions directly. They happen to be current or former delegates of NS Feeders and are counted among the most reliable and just players in the game. It may well be that their statements are not vital for Your decision, however I feel that such proof has to reach Your eyes. What I think is essential for us to see from those statements, is that the character of the defendant and his repeated attempts at traitorous actions are a constant presence everywhere he has appeared. If Your Honors should consider that the testimonies which will follow lack the strength to prove that, the Prosecution can present additional examples of the same pattern of action.

Statement of TAO, Delegate of The West Pacific:[used with permission]

   
As TAO, I have been contacted by several female players (members of TWP and players outside of TWP who have heard of these proceedings) describing how they felt they were being “stalked by Ramaba” because of his constant requests for personal information, his repeated harassment through multiple cyber media, and his not-so-veiled sexual innuendos. These ladies had no reason to lie. Most now block Ramaba from their IM and email. One young lady said she had to block his phone.

Ram is blocked and banned from most of the feeder IRCs and from several smaller ones, too. In these arenas, he is reported to be rude and/or crude beyond the norm. And many other players in multiple regions have discovered on their own that he uses logs from IRC and chats and trades such conversations to others.

Regarding IC matters, as TAO I find that Govindia has no honor. When he was denied membership into the Order of Gryphons under his own name in TWP, he applied under a different name and from a different region. He is now an applicant-non-gratis in the Order.

When the trial of Ramaba was happening in TWP, Ramaba (Govindia) harassed forum members via PM to support and defend him. Many of those who had previously supported him found this harassment to be “over the top” and they chose to support the case against him instead.

Govindia is a loose cannon who presumes he is owed position and power but he doesn’t really do anything to earn it … or the TRUST that such position involves.

Govindia exhibits NO restraint in sharing PMs with a third party and without permission of the other player.  He uses such privileged information as he would a trading card to secure personal prestige.  In most governments, we call that treason.

IC and OOC he is a detestable player and TWP suffers with him in our midst.

Bottom line: he was removed from TWP and the region is a much better place because of it. But TWP is preparing to take further action against Govindia because of his sneaking into our forum under a different name and using a proxy even though he is banned. So it would seem that Govindia is not only a problematic player, he is a stupid [less diligent] one.

Statement of Gnidrah, Delegate of The East Pacific:[used with permission via TAO]

Govindia was first banned from the forum for constant and consistent disobedience of forum administration, and for violating forum policy, rules and regulations. He was then banned a second time for not only repeat offenses, but also for circumventing the ban already in effect, in a deceptive, fraudulent manner.

Statement of Caer Rialis, former Delegate of The South Pacific:[used with permission]

Detestible IC and OOC. Yes. To me, Govindia is one of the absolute worst sort of individuals, both in an online setting and in a real-life setting. I don’t know him in rl, but, based on msn conversations, I can only get a picture of what sort of person he is when he’s not behind a key board.

Govindia arrived in the South Pacific in August 2005 as Marionetsvia. At first glance, he appeared ready and willing to help. Despite warnings from TEP, we allowed him to remain, but kept a close eye on him. Fudgie even went so far as to give him a grungy job for the government going through old rp threads to work measures out.

For a long time he didn’t really take part in rp in TSP. Of course, we don’t have a lot of rp, but that’s okay. Govindia claimed, several times, to be working on rp guidelines for large-scale actions, but we never saw any result of this work. When he did take part in rp, he tend to step over people, god-mod, and then have a minor fit before leaving the rp.

The biggest problem was in his personal dealings with others. We learned very quickly that he was stalking one of the members of the region. We investigated the situation and suspended him for a month. On his return, he was to have no further contact with this member whatsoever. He never, in all our investigations of this first incident, admitted to stalking her, or that his attentions weren’t wanted. Instead, like an abuser, he put the blame on that member. She began participating less and less in our forums, btw.

He returned and appeared to be towing the straight and narrow. However, that was a sham. He returned to stalking the member and fell in with a group of dissidents in the region in December 2005/January 2006. After we learned of his renewed stalking, Fudgie and I had numerous conversations with him. Fudgie was extremely pissed at the man and I learned, from conversations with him, that he was stalking women rt, and, again, never saw that his attentions weren’t wanted. In the end, we had to ban him; he claimed, of course, that it was part of being a member of the opposition, but it was nothing of the sort.

From msn conversations, he seemed to have delusions of his own grandeur. He considered himself more intelligent than any he spoke with, treated people poorly and rudely, and always refused to see where he might be at fault.

Frankly, we were better off as a region without him. If he could be banned from NS altogether, I would be a happy happy man.

If necessary go ahead and quote me. I'm all for deeting him from the NS world

If we are corroborating the above statements, with the (1) other pieces of Intel that have been received by the Root Administration, (2) the observations made by the MoRS at time, St.Oz, who has signaled the administration that upon following the defendant trails on the forum they indicated his attempts to access information he was not supposed to and to enter archived forums, with the fact that (3) we know he has been posting IRC logs without the permission of those concerned, a fact which we CAN prove but would rather do so only before The Court as to avoid the sensitive situation in which the recipients of those messages would find themselves into, with (4) the evaluations and judgments of experienced Intel people like Limitless Events, Flemingovia and Korinn, all three with a heart (also) beating in black and white but with no ties to one-another that would justify a conspiracy (especially if we think about what non-valuable objective such an act would have in this case), with (5) the grief and the troubles that this infamous character has brought to our region, and with the facts that (6) some slip-ups of Intel agents from a couple of NS regions have indicated beyond a doubt that Govindia was in-fact providing information on Taijitu, I have to ask You: does it seem like the Prosecution has proved nothing? Do we have to do the impossible to make this region see what Govindia really stands for? Is this the reason we are playing NS for, to stalk a stalker and break into his e-mail in order to obtain the only type of evidence that the Defense is willing to see?

 If that were the case, I personally would be sad that this is what Taijitu has turned into and I wouldn't be able to value the freedom of speech and the injustice screams that the defendant has been proffering all-over the place, as the well-being, security, protection and privacy of the members of whom I myself have recruited some to the region would be worth less than the hole in a piece of cheese! As a player that lives and breathes for Taijitu I would never allow that to happen, and neither will anyone that cares for this region and especially the people living in it!

That being said, Your Honors, we await Your decision on the modified schedule of the trial, as well as some kind of sensible argumentation from the Defense. We do not rest our case yet.

[The G Rebellion]

In order for this case to close before Christmas, which it must, would the prosecution please conclude it's case so the defense may begin.

[PoD Gunner]

Your Honor,

As we have mentioned before, we cannot rest the case, as You are asking of us. The defense has the chance to react to the above statements (which they have not done although the last posts of the Prosecution are a couple of days old), so in all honesty I believe that You should turn to the defendant to speed this trial up. Once the defense has finished its case, we are more than ready to make a final statement (as far as we are concerned the period foreseen for free-talks can be reduced to one day) and rest our case before The Court.

The defense has already pitched in following our statements (and I assume that the days that were reserved for the Prosecution's statements only are obsolete by that and probably also the initial trial procedure), so please pin the lost three days from Friday to Monday on those who have stalled and not on the Prosecution. Please refer to the last phrase in our last statement. You cannot expect us to rest our case as long as everything the defense and the defendant have done was to complain about the Prosecution's statement being 24 hours late, insult, point out technicalities and differences in choices of termini. The loss of 72 more hours of our time during the week before Christmas is not our doing.

Thank You.

[The G Rebellion]

If what you are saying is for the defense to make their argument now, we may continue.

Defense counsel, I believe that the balls in your court.

[Govindia]

If what you are saying is for the defense to make their argument now, we may continue.

Defense counsel, I believe that the balls in your court.

Osafune has his first statement prepare on behalf of the defence.  There have been some minor difficulties in that the place he is in has been hit by a few ice storms in the US which have caused power outages, but he plans to post the statement as soon as possible. 

We hope the court can understand.

[PoD Gunner]

*Grins and counts on his fingers as to not make any mistakes: 1 day of delay from the Prosecution = big issues, Judges worried, where is the world coming to etc ; 5 days lost because of the defense team (I thought there were two defense counsels and as it seems Govindia can still talk for himself) = minor difficulties, everybody is happy*

[Govindia]

*Grins and counts on his fingers as to not make any mistakes: 1 day of delay from the Prosecution = big issues, Judges worried, where is the world coming to etc ; 5 days lost because of the defense team (I thought there were two defense counsels and as it seems Govindia can still talk for himself) = minor difficulties, everybody is happy*

With all due respect GMT, please avoid flamebaiting here and keep such comments to yourself.  You may not be aware of it,  but winter ice storms in the US in the mid-west and in the east have been severe enough for some states to declare states of emergency and has affected thousands of American lives.  Please show some decency and courtesy here.

[PoD Gunner]

*laughs* You should be a Journalist. As I said, I believe not both your counsels have been hit by snowstorms, I am not gonna argue about Osafune's situation (although he was on-line less than 12 and again 3 hours ago and the snow-storms have ceased for about three days now) as I am not aware of it, all I was doing was pointing out how dangerous your habits of crying out "The Wolf! The Wolf" are, for as I was also kept away by RL for a far shorter period some were already crying out in the torments of terror that the schedule of the trial should be respected. You have a history of inventing excuses and I for one will not overlook that. It just looks like the other day, Osafune had other areas of interest to post into. I would rather  be willing to accept that the defense is not ready than hear such excuses and than also be lectured on decency and courtesy by a soon-to-be universal pariah of the international community.

On a second note, unless you have forgotten you are a defendant in this trial and asking the Prosecution to do anything or not to, is not one of your privileges, please try to remember who you are and act accordingly. As far as I see, you could make those statements yourself, since your defense team seems incapacitated to do so by the weather outside.

I would also petition the Court to ask the defendant to remove from his forum Signature the indication of his past representative function of the region, as Ambassador of Taijitu to the region Exodus, I believe he has not only been removed from that position, but I also think that it is a mockery of this region.

[Templarios]

Honourable Justices of the Supreme Court of Taijitu,

This almost seems to be a repeat of the TWP trial. No evidence of the accused guilt was provided in the TWP trial, and the prosecution has failed to provide evidence in this trial.

Now, may I ask why? Could it be... that it doesn't exist? Limi himself admitted that there was no such evidence that Govindia had been copying topics from any forum. If the prosecution cannot provide the evidence publicly, then it must be able to provide it to the defence team privately, just if they were to show it to the court privately. Otherwise, this would not be a fair trial, and the evidence would have to be declared inadmissible because the prosecution is not giving us equal access to evidence.

Think about this now: Limi received this information on October 5th. Gov was not banned until the week of Thanksgiving or the week after. There was no trial on any charges related to anything until Govindia appealed the ban. If Govindia had indeed been copying sensitive information, why wasn't he banned earlier? They quite clearly did not need evidence to prove such a claim, as the trial shows.

And now for the current trial here in Taijitu. Govindia never applied for the Army and thus did not have access to any of its sub forums. If you view the Military Q&A thread, which can be accessed publicly, he only asked a question about the army. He was also denied a recruiter position for reasons in which the Recruitment Office have still yet to be honest and forthcoming with him on. He applied for a senator position but withdrew his application due to time constraints he had IRL as he was preparing to be relocated to the other side of the country, from Pennsylvania to California. The Ambassador HQ sub forum was the only sub forum Govindia had access too. There is no secret/sensitive information in that forum. It merely has posts about our regional statements and lists who is an ambassador and to where. You don't need access to the Ambassador HQ forum to figure this information out, and it poses no threat to the region if someone on the outside does find it out.  Even if he shirked his duties as an Ambassador, that does not indicate he was a security threat.

My client came to this region primarily for one purpose: to RP. Not to cause trouble. He was told that Taijitu was very known for having an active RP section, which he appreciated.  He initially appeared in May, but returned a few months later because he was finishing graduation from college and completing his assignments so he can graduate on time.  When he applied for the map, he filled out the criteria as everyone else did. After one or two weeks he asked the Map Mod, St. Oz, who was also MoRS, why the delay.  The MoRS repeatedly pressed Govindia to disclose his UN nation, even though it had already been resolved with the Minister of Internal Affairs, in order for Govindia to be granted citizenship. He knew that his UN nation was in TWP, which was a defender region, which should have been enough. However, Oz persisted, and going against his constitutional authority, when Govindia refused, he banned him three times from the #taijitu channel, and from the forum. He was forced to lift the ban after others protested. Since then, he has refused to add Govindia to the map even though he met the criteria. It had been 5 or 6 weeks by the time Limi placed the restriction, and it took far too long. Govindia could not address his concerns on the forum, as St. Oz was repeatedly deleting each post, denying his voice to address such a grievance. To add insult to injury, he added Govindia's nation to the map, but referred to his nation as a “Bitch Republic”, an obvious flame. When the restriction was placed, he removed him and put a new person in his spot.

The behaviour of the MoRS shows that he did not just act because Govindia was a security threat, it was because he came from a feeder that was an active defender. There has been no concrete evidence to show that he has violated or pose a threat to regional security.

The following testimony is also from someone with a great deal of experience in NS intelligence.

The person that you know as Govindia has asked me to make a statement detailing my views regarding his character.

 
I’ll be honest; he has got into a lot of trouble in a number of regions.  He can be arrogant at times, and disrespectful of the chain of command.  My opinion is shared by a number of people, and I’m sure my opinion is the same as many who will be reading this statement.

 
However, despite his flaws, he is not a traitor.  Traitors intentionally threaten the security of their region.  Govindia is dedicated to improving every region he is a member of, even if his conduct can be improved.  I am aware of the hard work he has put into improving the regions of England and Feudal Japan.  Govindia has proved to be a very active, capable, and hard-working Foreign Minister in England, for example.


I am aware of what happened in The West Pacific, and I honestly believe that the release of sensitive information by Govindia was an unintentional mistake.  I believe The West Pacific recognised that what Govindia did was a mistake, by the fact that they allowed him to remain in government after judgement had been passed on him.

 
I know Govindia well, and I know that he has your region’s best interests at heart.  I would also like to say that I am the Minister of Defence and Intelligence of England.   It is my job to assess whether someone is a risk to England’s security, and I have thoroughly assessed whether Govindia is a threat.  If I had found Govindia to be a threat, I would have asked the English government to take action, and I certainly wouldn’t have written this statement supporting Govindia.

 
Thank you.


New Drakensberg Range
Minister of Defence and Intelligence
England

The above testimony shows that such trust would not have been placed into Govindia had he been a threat to England, and the English MODI shows he clearly has experience in evaluating security threats.

In further regards to the TWP trial that the prosecution decided to bring up, I will now present a testimony that may shed a little more light on the event.

The next testimony is from Ithania, the former Senator and Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs and current Town Councillor of TWP. It should be noted that on top of the parts regarding Govindia's character, she confirmed that no evidence was provided in the TWP trial that the prosecution decided to bring up and that she has not seen any sensitive information from Taijitu.

(2007-12-15 10:20:45) Govindia: Ithania, this is Osafune, Defence Counsel for me in the trial of Taijitu v. Govindia
(2007-12-15 10:21:06) Osafune: yo
(2007-12-15 10:21:13) Govindia: Osafune, this is Ithania, Town Councillor and Deputy Foreign Minister in The West Pacific, and Deputy Foreign Minister in England
(2007-12-15 10:21:14) Ithania: Greetings, I wish I was meeting under happier circumstances
(2007-12-15 10:21:28) Osafune: brb
(2007-12-15 10:21:36) Ithania: Slight correction, not really a Deputy anymore, I just help out when asked.
(2007-12-15 10:21:46) Govindia: in TWP?
(2007-12-15 10:21:56) Ithania: Yes, sorry
(2007-12-15 10:22:36) Osafune: back
(2007-12-15 10:22:38) Govindia: no worries. Thank you for the clarification.
(2007-12-15 10:22:44) Govindia: welcome back Osafune
(2007-12-15 10:23:03) Govindia: Now, Osafune, do you want to begin the questioning?
(2007-12-15 10:23:03) Osafune: not "anymore"?
(2007-12-15 10:23:16) Osafune: um sure, I suppose
(2007-12-15 10:23:38) Ithania: Oh dear, take your time. I can wait as long as it takes
(2007-12-15 10:24:04) Osafune: Ok, well let's get things rolling
(2007-12-15 10:24:23) Govindia: Osafune will be asking most of the questions.
(2007-12-15 10:24:26) Osafune: Please state your UN nation and region.
(2007-12-15 10:25:14) Ithania: My UN Nation is The Ice Queendom of Ithania which is situated in England, but most of my activity is as a member of The West Pacific.
(2007-12-15 10:26:41) Osafune: Thank you, and what is your forum name on The West Pacific's forum?
(2007-12-15 10:26:51) Ithania: It's Ithania
(2007-12-15 10:27:43) Osafune: In the West Pacific, have you ever held a leadership position?
(2007-12-15 10:29:23) Ithania: Could you define 'leadership'? Is a member of the legislature a leadership position or are we strictly referring to executive powers such as the Ministers?
(2007-12-15 10:30:19) Osafune: Executive, legislature, judicial, all branches of the government.
(2007-12-15 10:31:19) Ithania: I was a Senator for a short time and Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs under Schwarz. I'm presently a Town Councillor but that's everything.
(2007-12-15 10:33:21) Osafune: Do you recall the trail of Ramaba vs. The West Pacific?
(2007-12-15 10:34:09) Osafune: or as Ramaba goes by in Taijitu, Govindia?
(2007-12-15 10:35:27) Ithania: I do, I was part of the defence counsel. Though I would like to note that I didn't perform that duty because of any personal bias towards Ramaba/Govindia, I wished to stay out of the whole messy affair. I did it in the interest of providing legal representation for a person because others weren't willing.
(2007-12-15 10:36:59) Osafune: Were you a friend of Ramaba?
(2007-12-15 10:36:59) Govindia: Were you also willing to have done it to aid me as a friend in terms of providing legal aid?
(2007-12-15 10:38:17) Ithania: I am a friend and I continue to be a friend, to a degree I consider myself a 'teacher'. I know he has a fundamentally good soul that just needs nurturing.
(2007-12-15 10:38:41) Ithania: As for legal aid, I provided it primarily because I believe all people deserve representation. My friendship wasn't the primary motivation.
(2007-12-15 10:41:27) Osafune: One of the charges in the TWP trial was that he was stalking other players, primarily women. Ramaba has stated to me that they had claimed to have evidence of this claim, but it was never presented during the trial. Can you verify this?
(2007-12-15 10:46:05) Ithania: No evidence at all was publicly provided in the Court but there was never a need to provide evidence, the Court ultimately ruled that all bans confirmed by the Senate cannot be illegal. I think it's also important to note that there were specific cases explained to the Senate that did explain things such as a 'sting operation' (though no evidence was provided to prove they occur, either because
(2007-12-15 10:46:11) Ithania: it is sensitive or doesn't exist)
(2007-12-15 10:46:25) Ithania: Sorry about the lil line break, darn MSN.
(2007-12-15 10:46:32) Govindia: no worries.
(2007-12-15 10:46:37) Osafune: No problem
(2007-12-15 10:47:43) Osafune: So no evidenc was provided to the senate either?
(2007-12-15 10:47:51) Osafune: evidence*
(2007-12-15 10:48:00) Govindia: no evidence of this "sting operation" that is?
(2007-12-15 10:49:04) Govindia: For the purposes of this testimony could you also please confirm your gender?
(2007-12-15 10:49:19) Ithania: No evidence to confirm that it took place because such information was either sensitive or didn't exist.
(2007-12-15 10:50:17) Ithania: Oh my, odd question but I'm female. I'm afraid I'm trying to be rather formal and transactional so I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't notice. *chuckles*
(2007-12-15 10:50:27) Govindia: no worries
(2007-12-15 10:51:36) Govindia: In the trial in TWP, what argument did you try to make, and on what basis did you do it off of?
(2007-12-15 10:54:11) Ithania: The defence counsel attempted to argue that the Delegate must prove that an individual is a "clear and present danger" (Bill of Rights) to regional security when they are asked to justify their decision to ban an individual. We argued that concrete evidence must exist to establish that or else a ban must be overturned.
(2007-12-15 10:54:52) Govindia: Is there anything else you argued for the case ?
(2007-12-15 10:57:17) Ithania: Not that I can remember sadly but my memory is quite bad sometimes. We attempted to show that the burden of proof was on the Delegate, the BoR suggested that... except ultimately all bans are legal if the Senate supports them via vote so it proved to be quite irrelevant
(2007-12-15 10:57:54) Govindia: Have you ever been on Taijitu's forums prior to the trial?
(2007-12-15 10:59:33) Ithania: No, I've never had an interest in that community. The only reason I did this time was because I was asked to help several times.
(2007-12-15 11:00:23) Osafune: Are you aware of the current case against Gov?
(2007-12-15 11:00:45) Osafune: Govindia vs. Taijitu?
(2007-12-15 11:01:01) Ithania: I am now
(2007-12-15 11:01:05) Govindia: ok
(2007-12-15 11:02:05) Ithania: Are we going to spend hours establishing that I'm aware of the trial or is there something of relevancy to be asked? I dearly apologise for impatience but I prefer efficiency over unnecessary verbiage.
(2007-12-15 11:02:59) Osafune: The TWP trial was brought up several times in the current case in Taijitu
(2007-12-15 11:04:46) Osafune: Have you seen anything from Tajitu that would be deemed top secret?
(2007-12-15 11:05:48) Osafune: or that in your opinion, you would feel the government in Taijitu would deem top secret?
(2007-12-15 11:06:54) Ithania: Oh goshums no, nothing has been offered and I'd never accept anyway.
(2007-12-15 11:07:11) Govindia: Fair enough.
(2007-12-15 11:08:42) Govindia: We do thank you for your patience as we are trying to ask relevant questions to this trial.

The above testimony clearly shows that no sensitive information was copied from Taijtu to elsewhere, and that no evidence showing Govindia was a threat to TWP security was shown to prove he was a threat. And now, in regards to the character of Govindia, I will now present testimonies that show that the charges against his character are exaggerated, or in some cases, totally false.

Prosecutor of Taijitu,

 

It has come to my notice that Govindia had been put on trial and I hereby wish to  make a character statement.

Although I haven’t  known Govindia for that long I know a good person when I meet one.  He’s a kind, sweet and a considerate man. I don’t say he is perfect, because no one is.  He enjoys getting to know new people and is straight forward about that. When he thinks of something, a personal question or something completely different, he’s straight forward in asking that person about it. Sometimes this may seem threatening to that person. But I assure you he means well. He only has good intentions in getting to know that person.

Also  I don’t see any reason why he should not be trusted. He never gave me any reason to doubt his trust. Think about that for a minute. Did he really said something that made him less trustworthy?

I hope you don’t  rush to conclusions about his personality/character too soon. Get to know him first and you see what I see: a good man worth of your trust.

 

With kind regards,

 

 

Nagabeth

Equilism citizen

College member

(Former Chancellor of Internal Affairs)

I have testimony from others as well, all alluding to the same thing: The prosecution is exaggerating. In due time, those testimonies will be posted, as well as some from our very own Taijituans.

[Govindia]

*laughs* You should be a Journalist. As I said, I believe not both your counsels have been hit by snowstorms, I am not gonna argue about Osafune's situation (although he was on-line less than 12 and again 3 hours ago and the snow-storms have ceased for about three days now) as I am not aware of it, all I was doing was pointing out how dangerous your habits of crying out "The Wolf! The Wolf" are, for as I was also kept away by RL for a far shorter period some were already crying out in the torments of terror that the schedule of the trial should be respected. You have a history of inventing excuses and I for one will not overlook that. It just looks like the other day, Osafune had other areas of interest to post into. I would rather  be willing to accept that the defense is not ready than hear such excuses and than also be lectured on decency and courtesy by a soon-to-be universal pariah of the international community.

On a second note, unless you have forgotten you are a defendant in this trial and asking the Prosecution to do anything or not to, is not one of your privileges, please try to remember who you are and act accordingly. As far as I see, you could make those statements yourself, since your defense team seems incapacitated to do so by the weather outside.

I would also petition the Court to ask the defendant to remove from his forum Signature the indication of his past representative function of the region, as Ambassador of Taijitu to the region Exodus, I believe he has not only been removed from that position, but I also think that it is a mockery of this region.

I ask the Justices to please ask the prosecution from making any statements that are inflammatoriy, derogatory, insulting, or flaming in nature.  My defence team nor myself have made any comments of such a nature since this initial warning was put in place by Justice Allama and supported by the other two Justices, and the prosecution's refusal to act civil and show decorum in this case is a clear sign of contempt.

Furthermore, let it be shown that I am still a citizen, and as such am innocent until proven guilty.  There is nothing in the law that states that I cannot continue to function as an ambassador to The Exodus.  I have not been removed from this position, and to say that I can't be an ambassador is again insulting and derogatory and irrelevant to the case at hand.

[PoD Gunner]

Honorable Court,

allow me to address the statement of the defense.

Not only has the the defense made NO attempt whatsoever to address the clearly formulated accusations of the Prosecution, but again they relate to what they are willing to recognize as proof. The Court is aware of the additional evidence I am prepared to bring, some new items have been added to the list, including evidence proving that the defendant has repeatedly used proxies in order to circumvent the forum restrictions and the fact that he has done that in IRC also is common knowledge and can also be proved, as well as a testimony revealing the fact that the defendant himself has come to Taijitu with a purpose and, let us be serious, it was not to RP.

Now, to address the defense's understanding of things: The defense analyzes the administrative action by Limitless Events from a rather naive point of view, they even wonder why there had been no trial until Govindia had appealed the ban (!!!). I again, ask the defense to actually read the testimony of Limitless Events and Flemingovia and do not ignore their content. All the questions the defense throws around in a rhetorical manner are answered in there.

We are not going to comment on RP issues and arguments in such a thread, at least I am not. What interest us is the deposition of St. Oz as MoRS and it is in that capacity that the defense should look at the player St. Oz. Again, we are going to repeat. St Oz has tracked Govindia's movements in the forums (yes, that is possible) and has found him trying to access restricted areas. Al the rest is irrelevant. If the defense wishes to accuse the MoRS of anything, as Citizens any of the two counselors may do that, until that happens I believe that throwing dirt at an old-time player of Taijitu just because he himself had not the necessary patience of dealing with your defendant as map-maker does not belong here. It throws an interesting light on your understanding of the region we call home, though.

To the first piece of evidence: again, an odd manner of trying to ignore the proof brought before the Court - the defense brings us a statement from another region speaking about the events in TWP, which are of relevance to this case, when we have presented the statement of TAO himself. The fact that Govindia came here from TWP played no negative part, in fact a number of respected and old TWPers have warned us upon his arrival of what was coming upon us. The fact that Govindia has spoken against Taijitu while in TWP is a fact that was mentioned by us, in order to show the ever-changing character of the defendant. How the English MoRS shows he has any experience I have no idea, since I have never heard of him, and matching his expertise against that of Flemingovia, Limitless Events and Korinn is insufficient, even for this case. Odd, but more than nothing.


Let us move on to Ithania's testimony: (again, a player from NS England actually and not a native TWPer, makes one wonder...). As Ithania says,

Slight correction, not really a Deputy anymore, I just help out when asked.

so you can edit and correct the capacity of the witness. What the evidence is concerned, the witness states clearly:

it is sensitive or doesn't exist

, thus giving us no information to either of the two possibilities, just what we already knew: evidence containing personal info will never be made public by responsible administrators. Furthermore, we would wish to congratulate the defense on beautiful interrogation skills

Ithania: Are we going to spend hours establishing that I'm aware of the trial or is there something of relevancy to be asked? I dearly apologise for impatience but I prefer efficiency over unnecessary verbiage.

but I must confess that the last lines of the interview have left me speechless:

(2007-12-15 11:04:46) Osafune: Have you seen anything from Tajitu that would be deemed top secret?
(2007-12-15 11:05:48) Osafune: or that in your opinion, you would feel the government in Taijitu would deem top secret?

...No idea what that could be about.
To conclude after such a testimony that:

The above testimony clearly shows that no sensitive information was copied from Taijtu to elsewhere, and that no evidence showing Govindia was a threat to TWP security was shown to prove he was a threat

, may well sound nice and be funny, but is in no way conform to the content of the evidence presented before this Court. Our personal interpretation of Ithania's testimony is that it is that of a person with immense patience and a great heart, but a person who had absolutely no access to any relevant info about Govinida in general and his doings in TWP in particular.

To take this further: Ithania's official capacity as defense counsel of Govindia in TWP is at best blurry and doubtful. Also, evidence of the defendant copying and then e-mailing a password protected thread exists and was made available to the Senate of The West Pacific when they upheld the ban and I suppose that if the defense wants to verify this, it could be reproduced in here, in order to fully demonstrate to this Court that not even the defense of Govindia is aware what kind of information their client is feeding them and who they are in fact using as witnesses *Shakes head*.

Anyhow, candidly asking the witness whether she was given or offered any top secret info on Taijitu as a means of establishing whether the defendant has ever done such a thing is precious and was given a well-deserved response:

Ithania: Oh goshums no, nothing has been offered and I'd never accept anyway.

*Smiles*.

Now, for the last beautiful piece of evidence: had you asked first, I would have advised against showing on trial the statement of a player from the region Equilism, because the latest history between the regions of Taijitu and Equilism is not one of friendship and/or support, although no open conflict has arisen.
The fact stays that I personally, am not willing to accept a testimony on the defendant from a representative of a region that has been applying a double standard in NS and has been caught up in a rather serious Intel scandal (internationally speaking). Taijitu has always been honest about its nature.
Let us look at the statement:

Although I haven’t  known Govindia for that long I know a good person when I meet one.

^ I would consider that an excellent example as to what capacity the witness from Equilism brings before this Court. I would however suggest that witnesses with at least a bit of expertise, resulting either from access to information, experience or acquaintance with the defendant be selected, as this is but an attempt not to appear empty-handed before the Honorable Court. There is no point to fabricate witnesses, we know our way around in NationStates for a while now. I myself have never received such a letter (as I see it is addressed to me), and and had I received it, since it is coming from the official of a region *the only region actually* who has chosen to cease any relations with Taijitu as a region because we have been honest, I would have frankly disregarded it. Naive, at best.

However, in front of such compelling arguments:

Also  I don’t see any reason why he should not be trusted. He never gave me any reason to doubt his trust. Think about that for a minute. Did he really said something that made him less trustworthy?

we must bow our heads and admit that none of us are perfect. C'mon!

Post Scriptum: We wonder what due time is, since this trial should be over by now...

To spare the defense some of the trouble they have gone through, as we can imagine that it must be terribly hard to find positive statements about the defendant, we present you another exhibit, as the defense so nicely put it, "from our very own Taijituans.":

*Note: Meridianland is one of the oldest NS players that are known to Taijitu, she has supported the region from the moment of its birth and continues to do so to this day. Meridianland is a very experienced player, coming from the 'lager' of NS raiders, as opposed to Flemingovia's expertise of a famous 'defender', it is however surprising that their evaluation coincides perfectly on this topic. Of course, the opinion of the English MoRS should not be disregarded because of what shall folow.

< 07GMT > --- Interview Session with Meridianland on the topic of Govindia's baning from the region ---
< 07GMT > this interview will be logged and can be presented as testimony in the trial of Taijitu vs Govindia
< 07GMT > First of all, Milady, please state your name and position in Taijitu.
< 13meri > My name is Meridianland, I'm currently Speaker of the Senate,  I also have worked as an assistant to the Minister of Security over a couple of different administrations
< 07GMT > Thank You.
< 13meri > You're welcome.
< 07GMT > Could you please tell us if you have entertained any private talks with the player known in Taijitu as Govindia?
< 07GMT > And if so,
< 07GMT > has the topic of his reason to be in Taijitu been ever discussed?
< 13meri > Yes I have, and yes it has.
< 07GMT > Can you please tell us in your own words, what was discussed?
< 13meri > Many things.   He always seemed to be complaining about one thing or another going on in Taijitu.  One topic that emerged that pertains to this trial is the subject of his UN nation. 
< 07GMT > Please, go on.
< 13meri > At the time that we began discussing the subject, and i believe to this day, he has refused to disclose the location or identity of his UN.  Since in this game, each player is allowed to have only one UN, and UNs can in many instances, particularly in military and intelligence contexts represent power, the dedication of one's UN is usually an indication of a player's loyalty.
< 13meri > He always used to ask me if i trusted him.  He seemed a bit obsessed with it.
< 13meri > At first I responded that I could not trust him because of the secretness surrounding his UN.
< 07GMT > What happened after that?
< 13meri > He made it clear to me that he understood my position, but would not reveal it to me.
< 07GMT > Can you be a bit more explicit?
< 07GMT > What does that mean, for those not familiar with Intel "talk"?
< 13meri > I asked him if he was working for Taijitu, he said no, he was working for another region.  I told him I could not trust his motives in the region, then. 
< 13meri > is that what you're asking?
< 07GMT > Yes, thank you for clearing that up.
< 07GMT > You are a player with a huge amount of experience in that domain: Intel, undercover operations etc.
< 07GMT > What is your personal evaluation of Govindia and how do you see his banning from Taijitu?
< 13meri > I believe Govindia to be a threat to Tajitu in many areas:  the military, security-wise, and socially he has repeatedly acted badly.  His abysmal social behavior could very well be  a strategy to undermine the region's stability. 
< 13meri > I support his banning.
< 07GMT > Thank You, Milady.

[Templarios]

If what you are saying is for the defense to make their argument now, we may continue.

Defense counsel, I believe that the balls in your court.

Honorable Court, we have yet to finish presenting our evidence and yet the Prosecution is still posting away.

May we have time to present all our evidence without interruption?