Taijitu v. Govindia

[Templarios]

Your Honors,

I apologize for the delay, RL has kept me very busy for the time being. The prosecution will post the accusation act within the next 24 h.

Thank You for Your understanding.

As part of the defense team, i think we should keep on the time scale with the defense's statement coming after mid-night  Tuesday night (as posted before)

[PoD Gunner]

I will try to ignore the above post, however offensive it might be, considering that I have been waiting for ages for this trial to start and your client has done nothing but postpone it and waste my and others time. If you cannot accept a slight delay caused by Real Life, I think you should look carefully at your client's ways and behaviour before talking. This is why I have pushed for an IRC trial months (!!!) ago, actually have also stayed in the Court channel by myself for hours, while being at work, with no defendant or council even showing up or posting an apology afterwards. Oh yes, it was an officially set date for the trial.
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Your Honors,

allow me to again present my apologies for causing this delay to the Court's proceedings. Since time is of the essence, I will proceed with the accusation act against Govindia and I will present some of the evidence relevant to this case. There is, however, some evidence of a more sensitive nature, that could cause problems at an international scale for our beloved region, if revealed. I will present those issues in secret to the Court and it should be the Court's decision as to make them public, ignore them or take them into consideration.

Your Honors,
in our opinion the defendant can be accused of breaking the following paragraphs of The Taijitan Code of Laws, Article I: Criminal Code:

2. The dissemination of private materials of any Citizen of Taijitu as defined in Section 3 of this article shall be forbidden, excepting where authorized by that Citizen or Citizens, or by a warrant of the Supreme Court of Taijitu issued on probable cause.
4. Excessive and unnecessary posting with the intent to disrupt or provoke shall be forbidden.
6. The harassment of any person shall be forbidden.
7. The dissemination of classified materials vital to the security of the region shall be forbidden, and the Executive Government of Taijitu shall be given the authority to declare materials classified on a reasoned basis.

While providing clear proof of such crimes is not always easy in a virtual community and while anyone has at disposal the tool of private-messaging or e-mail, we are sure that the continuous actions of the player Govindia and his persona in Taijitu, which we will expose in what shall follow, combined with the relevant proof that could be found, will convince the Court that the administrative decision reached by Limitless Events, that of banning the defendant's access to the regional forums was the right one, and shall make it final. The decision of the root administrator of our region was based solely on his intention to protect Taijitu from disruptive players like Govindia and his decision has been based on what facts he could gather and on the information that was passed to him by trustworthy and well-known players from NS, some of them being leaders of game-feeders. He also acted based on the fact that the player Govindia has an international reputation of causing trouble and in this game such players are remembered and any region avoids allowing them to be active in their area. Moreover, the root administrator's decision was examined and supported by the ruling delegate of that time, Flemingovia, one of the players in Taijitu who have spoken the most against a summary banning of the player Govindia, fearing that it might be a spot on our democratic record as a region. Nonetheless, sometimes such dangers must be dealt with and especially when providing crushing evidence is impossible, someone needs to make a decision.

To return to the sequence of events that your Honors need to examine in this case.
Since the day of his coming to the region, Govindia has struck the most of us as a very odd character. The aggressiveness of his interpolations has made me always suspect him of not being just another addition to the region. The avidity with which he insisted of knowing an impressive number of details about the various members of the region and the frustrated way in which he responded as it was indicated to him that he was actually breaching a sphere of  privacy, went outside the regular mistakes of any noob, as all of us have been one upon joining. Govindia was harassing all and anybody from the first day he set foot in Taijitu's forums and IRC channel. Some disliked that more, others less and tried hard to tolerate the ways of this players. Some started talking about having this player removed from our ranks after the first few days from his arrival. Of course that did not happen, as we have learned a lot from our past experiences, to know that suspecting, having trouble with or not being able to tolerate someone is not reason enough for a ban. Although, being private communities, a lot of NS regions act like that. We did not, although Govindia has been testing the limits of our patience more than once. The fact that he has not lost the opportunity to throw mud at our region after the move against The Rejected Realms had been forgotten.

The next step in Govindia's Taijituan odyssey were his continuous attempts to obtain an administrative position. As he was not trusted, several refusals came from different directions. After harassing the MoEA he finally was given a place of ambassadorial representation, where, despite his humongous efforts to obtain the position, he has performed miserably and needed to constantly be reminded by his superior as to what his duties and responsibilities were.

In time Govindia has come under scrutiny of our Intel Department and several disturbing news started coming: a history of harassment in a NS feeder, being banned from another, links indicating him as a possible agent of a NS region with intense military activity and so on. I myself realized that in his crazy race for attention and for a high-profile, this player would be willing to do no matter what and sell no matter who for the right price.

During the IRC troubled times when a new order had been instituted and peace had been finally brought to a tortured communication channel, Govindia assumed the role of a messenger for those contesting the way that the new order had been instituted. In this capacity he has copied and pasted more than once logs from the region's official channel. He has resided in a parallel channel and advertised it in the official one, subverting the officially approved order. For these actions he has been banned several times from the IRC channel of Taijitu. The last ban was also made final by the  moderators' team. It is also the case of most NS-related IRC channels I know, he has pushed everybody up to the point where his presence is hated.

That is why, Your Honors, as far as I am concerned, the issue of Govindia is not a simple one. He has managed to cause more trouble and grief in this region that I have ever seen happen in my presence in NS of more than 3 years. The only sensible decision that our region can make is to separate ourselves from this insidious and destructive character and sustain the ban instituted by the administration.

At the time when Limitless Events has reached the decision to ban Govindia from the regional forums, a lot of Taijituans were already complaining about his un-bothered presence in our region. Basing his decision on relevant intel information, on the observation of our MoRS from that time and on direct testimonies from trustworthy NS players, the root admin. has perhaps saved the region from potential significant problems. In what shall follow we will try to present to you the facts as described by those directly implied.

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I am again sorry but I am working 16 hours a day atm (end of season) and am currently underway, not having the necessary information and logs on my work laptop. By tomorrow I will be able to post the deposition of Limitless Events taken by me shortly after the banning in the presence of two witnesses, about the banning of Govindia, along with other testimonies relevant to the effects this character has had on Taijitu  around the date of the events above. Before the ending of the trial period, I will also post the relevant direct testimonies of outside relevant witnesses in case they will not be able to appear in persona in The Court. I also apologize for the possible low-quality of my orthography as I had to write these lines in a short amount of time, I shall go over them tonight.
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Your Honors,
either please award me another 24 hours for the full case to be displayed, or give the word to the defense and I shall preset you with the rest of the material in the remaining days of free talks. The sensitive classified information I was referring to will be presented in the Court's private room. Thank You.

[Templarios]

Has PoD been given another 24 hours or is the defense allowed to present its case now?

[Allama]

I will communicate with the other Justices and get back to you on a time extension for the Prosecution, making them aware of my position just in case I am no longer at my computer when they receive my messages.

In the meantime, as it is the scheduled time for the Defense to present their case so I see no reason why you could not begin to do so now regardless of what new information may be incoming.  Feel free to add to your case if/when more evidence is presented by the Prosecutor; we have set no post limit for you.

[Templarios]

Will the defense be given 24 hours if the prosecution post items after our time or limited amount of our time is left to respond?

[Templarios]

Your Honour,

My client, Gov, has been charged with 6 charges yet none of them have been backed up with yet any hard evidence. I find myself in a strange position of having to defend again just pure accusations.

We, the defence team, do understand that the safety of the region comes before anything else and are happy for any material deemed to be of a sensitive nature to only released for a select few but asked that if it is released that the defence team are not banned from seeing the evidence in the interest of a fair trial.

Firstly, I start with a quote from the prosecution:

combined with the relevant proof that could be found

. I bring to attention that we see none before us so far and the use of the word could in the reference of evidence.
Secondly, the prosecution mention information gather from other regions and players, we ask to see this evidence in the time given or withdraw that accusation. It is all very well to say people have said that but we need evidence before us.

The second quote I will use is this:

especially when providing crushing evidence is impossible

. Here, we thank the delegate at the time and respect his decision as it was interest of the region. But I ask you, without crushing evidence, should this be coming to trial and should we be in the position we are in now? This cant be based on what people may have said and some people’s opinions of his posts. The forums lack the whole area of expression in the terms of body language, facial expressions and a whole other ways we use daily to understand what people means. As modern has proved, over 70% of the way we communication is none verbal and that is largely lost on the forums with the cold words on a computer screen in front of you. Yer, we accept there are those faces etc you can use but they are no substitute. It is very easy to miss-read posts of people as I have done in the past, therefore forming inaccurate views of people.

I also do not see how his in-ability to be an ambassadorial representation has any bearing on this trial. Just because someone cant do one job makes them a criminal and should be banned? Im guessing I would be a pretty useless recruiter so if so, why I am not on trial is that is a factor?

needed to constantly be reminded by his superior as to what his duties and responsibilities were

As I said about, does it matter but has anyone thought about RL reasons affecting Gov such as kindly demonstrated by the prosecution team in requesting 24 hours extension due to RL issues?

So, let me get this right – if you are not good at your job, people miss-read you posts and you are annoying to certain people the Intel Department start looking at you? I don’t like that for a region that promotes freedom… Very scary!

I have no evidence of Gov’s history but if he was banned and ejected from regions, he is not the first on this forum. This is a thread recently where a member tells of being banned/ejected from another region by Durina (of this and the other region) yet he resides here with no move from the government to have him banned on evidence that no-one as yet to see… It does make you wonder.

Saying he had a crazy race for a high-profile, you (the government) have given him one now! Also, would anyone want some power rather than being a no-body? I give your Honour the choice of being a nothing in a region or someone with something to do, I ask you honestly to answer that.

I will end with this quote:

He has managed to cause more trouble and grief in this region that I have ever seen happen in my presence in NS of more than 3 years.

And where is the evidence? I see none except hear-say and personal views. I hope that is not enough in this region of freedom to ban a member or we are in a very sad state of affairs!

[Osamafune]

The defense requests that PoD's statements on Article I, laws 2, 4, and 6 to be disregarded and, if possible, edited out of his statement. It is irrelevant to this case. Flemingovia's statement on the Govindia's restriction was:

On or around 05 October, Limitless events received information that led him to believe that Govindia presented an urgent threat to regional security. As I was not online, he took the decision to restrict Govindia's access to the forum, subject to my review. On talking with Limi, and reviewing the evidence, I feel that this restriction was appropriate. Govindia has been informed of this by PM, and has the right to judicial review, which I invite him to take up.

This trial is Govindia challenging the restriction. He was restricted for being a "threat" to Taijitu. The first three laws quoted (2, 4, and 6 of Article I) are irrelevant because breaking those laws does not make anyone a threat to any region.


The defense would also like to know the judges' position on bringing in outside witnesses.

[PoD Gunner]

I thank Your Honor for Your Understanding.

Before proceeding with the first pieces of evidence relevant to Govindia's banning, allow me to respond to the illustrious defense team: First of all please make the effort to address me with my full name: it is PoD Gunner. Thank You.
Testimonies of Taijitu players, founders and important figures that have a word to say in the NS world and have seen the actions of the defendant will be presented before you. As I myself have wasted my (rather few) time in countless occasions and waited around for the defendant, you can do the same, for a matter of days and hours. I have waited months. I urge you to cease the unnecessary pressure, because I also have unorthodox means at my disposal. Screaming around won't get you any further, in fact I think it will only damage your own value to this region. If you want to see such a character unbanned before seeing all the evidence, I have a pretty clear opinion about how you value the security of this forums that we call home. Think about what time of year we are in and how busy people are now. It's a shame that Govindia didn't ask the trial to be held at New Year's Eve, so that the Judges be milder because of too much Champagne.

Again, you are using low-blows. Your client has had an official quality for more than a few days (which could have been kept busy by RL) and his incapacity to perform any task in that capacity is relevant from my POV for his intentions in Taijitu. He has screamed around for weeks and when he has obtained the position he has ignored it. Doesn't that say anything. I don't know if talking about the lack of body language and facial expressions in this game has any point, I think we all know we do not have those at our disposal. Just pause a moment and think about it. If you wanted to betray this region, would you make it publicly? How can one get to the private messages and e-mails you would send to the region's enemies? Would they be willing to share it with the prosecution? I assume that you have witnessed hundreds of trial in NS. This is not real life, in here we have to administrate a forum and watch out for in-game happenings. If a root administrator identifies a threat he will act upon it. If that thread can be verified by corroborating intel and testimonies that prove a pattern of in-game behavior for that player, the admins usually maintain the ban. This is no philosophical dispute about the limits of Internet communities. This is about keeping Taijitu safe, and if you are saying that Govindia is a victim of the system in here, allow me to disagree.

So, let me get this right – if you are not good at your job, people miss-read you posts and you are annoying to certain people the Intel Department start looking at you? I don’t like that for a region that promotes freedom… Very scary!

That kind of mockery shouldn't even be responded to. I already said that disturbing information was received about your client, and that is why the MoRS started checking on him. It's common practice that allows you among others to enjoy these forums. Don't mock it if you have never been there or seen it happen. Ever heard about destroyed forums? I could tell you dozens of cases.

The articles I have quoted might not all address the issue of regional security, but I intend to prove that the defendant has broken them all and show the Court the entire face of his presence in Taijitu. Before asking to have my statements edited (this is a first), you should bother reading my statements, in order to at least show some respect for a system you claim to defend. This is not a funny pass-time for me at the moment, but a serious matter that needs to be addressed in full-size. He has been banned on an account of security threat, but any player in NS has a back-ground. Also, please do not forget that Govindia, as a citizen, has taken an oath

I, Govindia, do solemnly swear that I shall at all times obey and respect the laws of Taijitu, that I shall do nothing to imperil the safety and well being of the region or any of its members, and recognize that should I fail to comply to this oath that my citizenship and the immunities and privileges it entitles may by due process of law be forfeit.

. We do consider that by breaking that oath, Govindia has become a general threat for Taijitu and a particular threat to the Security of the region, those being the primar reason for which he has been banned by the administration.

That is, your Honors, what I intend to present before this Court. If the defense wishes to turn this into a personal war, I for one will happily wage one, if such disrespect is the main tool they choose to work with.

Your Honors, I apologize for the above and shall proceed with the relevant evidence.
The deposition of the Root Administrator Limitless Events can be found in what follows. Allow me only a single comment regarding this piece of evidence: the deposition was taken in the second official channel of the region and witnessed by two old and trustworthy members of Taijitu, Khablan and Korinn, and later on also by Eluvatar, the second Root of our region. Limitless Events is one of the best Intel-specialists in NS and I respect his opinion both as Root Administrator and as Intel-person. Of course, based on its immense NS expertise, the defense team may ignore all of it and ask for my post to be edited and the affirmations revealing the character of their client removed.
This log is meant to clear the circumstances of the banning and reveal the reasoning of the Root Administrator's actions *which I am sure that the defense doesn't even need to hear, because they are just simple hear-say.
Your Honors, we promise that we will do our best to provide You with snapshots of Govindia, a copy of his actions caught on a surveillance camera and perhaps also his fingerprints on some of the information about Taijitu he has distributed to other regions*

A series of direct testimonies shall follow.

[13:19] <GMT> This is the Deposition of Limitless Events regarding Govindia's banning from the forums of NS Taijitu.
[13:19] <GMT> The motivation for this is the fact that Limi will be away untill Christmas starting tomorrow due to RL,
[13:20] <GMT> Present: Limitless Events, PoD Gunner (prosecuter) and Korinn (pssistant prosecutor)
[13:21] <GMT> First of all, Limitless Events, this is an official interview, which will be used as evidence in the trial of Taijitu vs Govindia.
[13:22] <GMT> Another witness shall be invited to serve as an official proof that this interview is real.
[13:29] * Khab has joined ##taijitu
[13:29] <Khab> Sorry, I was afk
[13:30] <GMT> Welcome, Khablan
[13:30] <Khab> thank ya, Mike
[13:30] <GMT> Khablan, as a Judge, will serve as official witness that this deposition is real
[13:30] <GMT> and has not been edited
[13:30] <Khab> I'm not a judge yet
[13:30] <GMT> heh, ok
[13:31] <Khab> the vote hasn't finished yet
[13:31] <GMT> then the official quality will be that of simple witness
[13:32] <GMT> First of all, Limi please state your forum name and function in Taijitu
[13:32] * GMT sets mode: +v Khab
[13:32] <Limi> Limitless Events, root admin of the forum and Citizen of Taijitu
[13:33] <GMT> Please tell us since when have you joined Taijitu and what have your responsibilities been ever since.
[13:34] <Limi> I joined Taijitu when it was first created and ever since then I have been making sure that the forum continued running with as few problems as possible
[13:36] <GMT> Please describe, in your own words, your actions from the 5th of October, 2007, exactly how they have happened, namely the banning of Govindia and your later actions.
[13:39] <Limi> On October 5th, 2007 I received information from TAO showing actions that Ramaba had been copying classified threads from TWP and handing them out to other regions.
[13:39] <GMT> *notes that TAO is the delegate of NS The West Pacific
[13:40] <GMT> please go on
[13:40] <Limi> Based upon that information I banned Ramaba's access to the forum and forwarded the information to the delegate telling him the ban would be undone if asked by him and/or his cabinet.
[13:41] <Limi> I was later informed by Korinn and Khab that he required access to the Court forums as dictated by regional law.
[13:41] <Limi> I then proceeded to create a special group for Ramaba that only allowed him access to the Laws and Courts and removed his ban
[13:42] <GMT> Has the ban been total initially and has Govindia been masked accordingly by you?
[13:43] <Limi> The original ban was total and the mask Gov received was changed and streamlined by Eluvatar in order to restrict what Gov was allowed to do in regards to posting permissions
[13:47] <GMT> Were you aware that a total ban is not allowed, according to Taijituan law?
[13:48] <Limi> At the time of the ban I was not aware of that requirement
[13:49] <GMT> How long did the total ban last, before the re-masking has happened?
[13:49] * Khab is now known as Khab|KindaHere
[13:50] * Khab|KindaHere is now known as Khab
[13:52] <Limi> The ban lasted roughly six hours, but during that time Govindia never tried to access the forums and did not even access the forum until after his mask had been put into place
[13:53] <GMT> How long after the ban has the delegate of Taijitu, Flemingovia, been informed about the action?
[13:55] <Limi> he was sent a PM before I had actually put the ban in place
[13:56] <GMT> Did you originally intend to get Flemingovia's approval before acting, or have you, based on the evidence in your posession, evaluate the security risk and decided to act immediately?
[13:58] <Limi> I considered him an immediate security risk and banned him for that. Which is why I told flemingovia I would immediately remove the ban if asked to do so by him
[13:59] <GMT> How long have you known the player Ramaba, Govindia (in Taijitu) and what was your personal opinion on him before this baning?
[14:02] <Limi> I have known Govindia ever since he returned to TWP. Originally I saw him as a curious player just trying to figure out what happened while he was gone.
[14:02] <GMT> How has your opinion *if so* changed after his return in TWP and arrival in Taijitu?
[14:03] <Limi> Later my opinion of him turned sour after being in contact with him more as, in my opinion, he always had to have things his way and complained in one form or another when things didn't go his way. I see him as a person who demands people do what he wants them to do rather than ask them and has to force his way into as many things as he can.
[14:04] <GMT> Has your personal opinion influenced your administrative decision in any way?
[14:05] <Limi> no it has not. I saw him only as a threat to regional security when banning him based upon the information I received from TAO
[14:06] <Limi> and just so you know he officially returned to TWP on Jun 26, 2006
[14:06] <GMT> Thank you for that detail, noted. Now about the evidence which has led to the ban.
[14:08] <GMT> You have acted based upon evidence of Ramaba/Govindia's actions in a foreign region. Please tell us what your reasoning was that Govindia was performing the same illegal actions (that of passing information / copying threads from Taijitu's forums to other regions) in here.
[14:10] <Limi> The information I received stated actions Govindia had done in multiple regions. There was also the fact that he had attempted to get a position in multiple areas that each had their own private sub forum
[14:11] <GMT> Please be more specific in identifying potential materials relevant to the security of Taijitu that Govindia could have access to.
[14:14] <Limi> he currently had access to the private ambassador sub forum
[14:15] <Limi> but had also expressed interest in joining the army and becoming a deputy minister in addition to applying to be a Senator and becoming a recruiter
[14:17] * GMT has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[14:18] * GMT has joined ##taijitu
[14:18] * ChanServ sets mode: +o GMT
[14:19] <GMT> Back, connection dropped
[14:20] <GMT> Please re-post the answer to the last question.
[14:21] <Limi> he currently had access to the private ambassador subforum
[14:21] <Limi> but had also expressed interest in joining the army and becoming a deputy minister in addition to applying to be a Senator and becoming a recruiter
[14:22] <GMT> thank you.
[14:22] <GMT> Tell us if there is any direct evidence of Govindia having performed the actions identified above.
[14:23] <Limi> it should aslo be noted that after being denied as a recruiter he continued to press multiple members of the region to get him to be a recruiter
[14:23] <GMT> noted, please answer the question.
[14:24] <Limi> there is no direct evidence of him committing the action as there is no way to log if a topic is downloaded
[14:24] <GMT> Is there evidence of threads or info copied from Taijitu and posted in another region?
[14:26] <Limi> there is no evidence that he copied threads from Taijitu and gave it to another region because information like that would be kept as secret as possible in the region he gave it to
[14:27] <GMT> Are you saying that such copied evidence would never see the light of public forums in another region but be passed on in a manner which would make it impossible for us to verify that, with the exception of a blunder or a direct testimony?
[14:33] <Limi> The only way that information would become public is for a high ranking official in the region it was given to commit treason against their own region. However, information of this nature is only given to a very few select members.
[14:35] <GMT> Interview suspended for about an hour, as Limi has to go afk for that time.
[14:35] <GMT> We will resume upon return.
[14:35] <GMT> None of the information presented here is to leave this room.
[14:36] <Korinn> understood
[14:36] <Khab> Agreed.
[14:36] <GMT> 7 *Session temporarily interrupted*
[14:49] * GMT has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[14:49] * GMT has joined ##taijitu
[14:49] * ChanServ sets mode: +o GMT
[16:05] <Limi> back
[16:06] * Khab is here.
[16:07] * GMT is here
[16:24] <GMT> 3Resuming
[16:24] <GMT> We're again in session.
[16:26] <GMT> Limi, we were discussing the potential threat presented by Govindia. You are known as an intel specialist in NS. In that capacity and based on the evidence that Givondia was performing illegal actions in other NS regions, please tell us how high did you evaluate the risk presented by him and explain us your judgement.
[16:28] <Limi> Based on the facts that he had done this in another region and his attempts to gain access to restricted areas I would say that there is a very high threat.
[16:28] <GMT> How would you evaluate the damage that Govindia could have inflicted on Taijitu?
[16:31] <Limi> If he had received access to any other restricted areas I would say the damage could be very severe since 2 of those areas contain private government documents and the other contains all the information on Taijitu's military. I see this also as a preventive measure to keep him from ever having access to any of those areas
[16:31] <GMT> How would you define your action in administrative terms?
[16:32] <Limi> I would define this as a preventive measure done to prevent any threads on the forum from being copied.
[16:35] <GMT> How trustworthy are the sources that provided you the evidence?
[16:37] <Limi> I consider the sources I received the information to be extremely. The player who gave me the information would only act and pass the information onto me if he was 100% sure of what it contained and what his actions would be
[16:41] <GMT> Would you define your administrative action, although based on evidence concerning Govindia's actions and no direct evidence of his actions in Taijitu, as reasonable in order to protect Taijtu's security?
[16:42] * Eluvatar|Away is now known as Eluvatar
[16:42] <Limi> I would say it is very reasonable because I also passed the information to flemingovia and stated the actions would be undone if he asked. Upon coming on he publicly stated his approval of this action based upon the information that was received
[16:43] <GMT> You might have misunderstood the question.
[16:44] <Eluvatar> oh
[16:44] <Eluvatar> I shouldn't be listening in on this, should I
[16:44] <Limi> you can
[16:44] <Eluvatar> I won't read my log then
[16:44] * Eluvatar has left ##taijitu (Leaving)
[16:44] <GMT> Heh. This is a deposition, Elu can verify its authenticity.
[16:44] <GMT> However
[16:46] <GMT> I was asking if you feel that a preemptive action was necessary and if you stand by your decision, although no direct evidence of Govindia's malicious intentions is at hand. The Delegate's approval is certainly a plus but I am interested in your judgment at the moment.
[16:48] <Limi> I feel that action was necessary in order to protect the security of the region as soon as possible
[16:48] <GMT> Thank you, Limi. Is there anything you would like to add to this?
[16:48] * Eluvatar has joined ##taijitu
[16:49] * ChanServ sets mode: +o Eluvatar
[16:49] <Eluvatar> okay, I'll log, but I won't read it before trial.
[16:49] <Limi> nothing I feel needs to be added
[16:49] <Eluvatar> feel free to repeat anything you said while I was out of the room
[16:50] <GMT> Since this log is trial testimony you will review it anyway.
[16:51] <Eluvatar> I'll review it at the right time
[16:53] <GMT> I think that having seen this testimony before the cases are presented is not of relevance for your fairness. They are rather facts detailing Flemingovia's public statement.
[16:53] <Eluvatar> :/
[16:53] <GMT> Plus your logging can testify to the veridicity of this interview
[16:53] <Eluvatar> that is the utility
[16:53] <Eluvatar> you can present the info and I can /then/ cross-check with my logs
[16:53] <Eluvatar> in court
[16:55] <GMT> indeed
[16:56] <Eluvatar> Until then I intend to not read it
[16:56] <Eluvatar> just making that clear lol
[16:59] <GMT> lol
[16:59] <GMT> 7 Interview Session ended at 11.35 pm GMT +3*[/quote

[Allama]

While I feel responding passionately to the case arguments of the Defense or Prosecution is appropriate, I must remind both sides to remain civil, to refrain from using insulting language or making sarcastic (or serious but still irrelevant) suppositions, and to refrain from posing personal questions to the Justices.

That aside, the testimony of outside witnesses is welcome as evidence in this court, Osa.  All involved in this proceeding should feel free to present such.

As to the recanting of portions of PoD Gunner's initial statement, I await input from my fellow Justices.

[PoD Gunner]

*Sighs* Yes, I am very curious about the input on such a request, too. The defenders of a traitor and a troll asking to have the prosecution's statement censored, that sounds indeed delicious....
If I look at it again, I actually feel that my tone might have been a bit too mild....

Your Honors,
in our opinion the defendant can be accused of breaking the following paragraphs of The Taijitan Code of Laws, Article I: Criminal Code:

Govindia's Oath:

I, Govindia, do solemnly swear that I shall at all times obey and respect the laws of Taijitu, that I shall do nothing to imperil the safety and well being of the region or any of its members, and recognize that should I fail to comply to this oath that my citizenship and the immunities and privileges it entitles may by due process of law be forfeit.

No relevance indeed. 

[Govindia]

While I feel responding passionately to the case arguments of the Defense or Prosecution is appropriate, I must remind both sides to remain civil, to refrain from using insulting language or making sarcastic (or serious but still irrelevant) suppositions, and to refrain from posing personal questions to the Justices.

Honourable justices, given what Justice Allama has been requested, I would like the Court to take attention to the fact that the prosecution has disregarded the Court's words on refraining from  using insulting language, as witnessed here:

The defenders of a traitor and a troll asking to have the prosecution's statement censored, that sounds indeed delicious....

[Allama]

While the words "traitor" and "troll" do reference the crimes of which the Defendant is being accused, the way they are being used seems to me to border on the insulting.  Please keep guard over your phrasing, (ladies and) gentlemen.  Civil tongues make for smooth proceedings, whereas anger begets naught but problems for all sides.

Additionally, I remind Govindia/Ramaba that this is the time to make any statements on your own behalf that you may have prepared.  It is not required, of course, but you may certainly do so.

Ah, I see I failed to address one of Templarios' questions yesterday, for which I apologize.  The Defense will indeed be granted an additional period in which to present their case equal to that granted to the Prosecution.

[Osamafune]

*Sighs* Yes, I am very curious about the input on such a request, too. The defenders of a traitor and a troll asking to have the prosecution's statement censored, that sounds indeed delicious....
If I look at it again, I actually feel that my tone might have been a bit too mild....

Your Honors,
in our opinion the defendant can be accused of breaking the following paragraphs of The Taijitan Code of Laws, Article I: Criminal Code:

Govindia's Oath:

I, Govindia, do solemnly swear that I shall at all times obey and respect the laws of Taijitu, that I shall do nothing to imperil the safety and well being of the region or any of its members, and recognize that should I fail to comply to this oath that my citizenship and the immunities and privileges it entitles may by due process of law be forfeit.

No relevance indeed. 

Again, this trial is about Gov challenging the restriction. He was resticted for "being a threat to security." Unless you can prove that the  manner Govindia broke the laws you pointed out threatens regional security, they do not relate to this trial!

So perhaps you can explain how breaking...

2. The dissemination of private materials of any Citizen of Taijitu as defined in Section 3 of this article shall be forbidden, excepting where authorized by that Citizen or Citizens, or by a warrant of the Supreme Court of Taijitu issued on probable cause.
4. Excessive and unnecessary posting with the intent to disrupt or provoke shall be forbidden.
6. The harassment of any person shall be forbidden.

... makes anyone a threat to regional security.

The best I can tell is that it's nothing but an attempt at a form of mud slinging by the prosecution.

First of all please make the effort to address me with my full name: it is PoD Gunner. Thank You.

I will, but would you please make an effort to make note that Gov was NOT banned. He was given a restriction.

As I myself have wasted my (rather few) time in countless occasions and waited around for the defendant, you can do the same, for a matter of days and hours. I have waited months.

Keep in mind that we have as well. Since the very beginning, the defense has been asking for a forum trial.

Ah, I see I failed to address one of Templarios' questions yesterday, for which I apologize.  The Defense will indeed be granted an additional period in which to present their case equal to that granted to the Prosecution.

Thank you, Al.

[Zimmerwald]

Since there is no provision in the Laws or Constitution for a grand jury or any similar procedure, it is appropriate that the Prosecution present its specific charges here.  Furthermore, the Government is perfectly within its rights to bring to trial a Citizen who has violated any portion of the Constitution, Laws, or any Oaths he might have taken; no rule states that a trial must have one charge and one charge only.

Continue

[Osamafune]

G-C... In your opinion then, what was the purpose of this trial when it was first brought to the courts two months ago?

I can only say that Gov was given the chance to challenge the restriction; that is why he was here. When he was offered to come to court, this is all we were expecting to deal with since that is all he was charged with. We had been preparing to deal with nothing but that charge for this very reason.  Why the court would want to throw unnecessary hurdles that the defense must jump through is unclear to me.

The only charge that he was banned on was for being a threat to security. While I know mine is meaningless here, it is still my opinion that if the prosecution wishes to charge Govindia with anything other than that, it should be done so in another trial.

While I agree with most of what you said, it does not make it just.