Some Concerns

[Prydania]

I have opted to start a new thread for this to escape the toxic attitude in the "What is Taijitu?" thread. I stand by what I've said there. If I know you from here? I like you, legitimately. And if you're a newbie I haven't met? I simply haven't had the pleasure of getting to know you just yet.
I say all of this to hopefully emphasize that I'm not here to point fingers, call people names, or condescend. I'm here to raise some concerns I have with the state of Taijitu and hopefully foster some productive dialogue.

My primary concern is that there's no incentive for newcomers. The Revolutionary government has abandoned the idea of a cabinet. As such there's no sense of progression. Nothing you can work your way up through. We have the Citizen Delegate, whose effectively neutered by the legislator.  Whose only real freedom is to affect foreign policy through appointments. Which the legislator can recall. What, exactly, will compel a newcomer to try and run for Delegate then? And if the only position left of any real note isn't attractive to newcomers then what chance is there that the region as a whole will be attractive?
Not to mention that this Revolutionary Date system, while fun, is a cumbersome system that's sure to alienate at least some newcomers who just can't make heads or tails of it.

The Revolution has done a lot of good, but I feel as if the zeal behind it has led to policies which only serve to hinder enthusiasm fresh eyes might have for joining our community.

[Funkadelia]

I disagree with the proposal set out here.

The Revolution was started to establish equality of all Citizens. This is why our offices use the prefix "Citizen," because no one is above anyone else, people just have different occupations.

I do not think it is either compatible with the spirit of the revolution nor the right thing to do to re-establish a hierarchy for the sake of having a hierarchy to ascend. Every elected office has a different job, and people run for those offices because they want to do that line of work or are inspired to try to go above and beyond in service to Taijitu.

Additionally, I disagree that the Revolutionary Calendar should be scrapped. That has never been a complaint by new people as something that has made it confusing. It is hardly ever used, except for the Voice of the People or for foreign publications. It's really just a cute thing that echoes the French Revolution, when they created a new calendar to abandon the religious inspiration of the Gregorian calendar. It's just a little thing that I think is very unique and easy to explain. And it's hardly used in practicality so it's not necessary for participation in the region.

[Myroria]

I believe internal recruitment wherein we guide new members of the region towards the forum would be a better plan of action, personally. I would hate to concentrate more power in the hands of a single individual or a collection of Cabinet members - while that works well and is efficient for larger regions, I think the rapid growth Taijitu saw before the recent unpleasantness speaks to the success of the model we have now.

With some focus on internal development, we could turn things around while working within our current system. The Citizen-Delegate is still a prestigious position and serves as Taijitu's head-of-state; I think if we foster a culture where newcomers know that Taijitu works amongst itself as a direct democracy they will be more than okay with a "first-among-equals" post like the Citizen-Delegate. Of course, the newer members of our region could probably speak of that better than I.

I also think that the Revolutionary Calendar is one of the most enduring parts of our theme. When working abroad, the fact that we had our own calendar was well-known and immediately gave people a vision of what our theme was. I have no problem with using it alongside a normal calendar but I like it quite a lot.

[Prydania]

I disagree with the proposal set out here.

I never put forth a proposal. I merely presented my thoughts on the region as it stands in the hope of spurring on productive discussion.
I'm not pretending I have all the answers. Nor am I presenting some polished plan of action. Just voicing my concerns.

The Revolution was started to establish equality of all Citizens. This is why our offices use the prefix "Citizen," because no one is above anyone else, people just have different occupations.

I do not think it is either compatible with the spirit of the revolution nor the right thing to do to re-establish a hierarchy for the sake of having a hierarchy to ascend. Every elected office has a different job, and people run for those offices because they want to do that line of work or are inspired to try to go above and beyond in service to Taijitu.

My point is that, in the past, newbies would join. And to get appointed to a cabinet was a big deal. And it was a bigger deal to work your up through the various cabinet positions. It was, in essence, a game play mechanic. One that pushed players (members) to strive for the next level. I'm not sure it's the best thing that this has been lost.

Additionally, I disagree that the Revolutionary Calendar should be scrapped. That has never been a complaint by new people as something that has made it confusing. It is hardly ever used, except for the Voice of the People or for foreign publications. It's really just a cute thing that echoes the French Revolution, when they created a new calendar to abandon the religious inspiration of the Gregorian calendar. It's just a little thing that I think is very unique and easy to explain. And it's hardly used in practicality so it's not necessary for participation in the region.

Funk, I know. I get it. And the French abandoned it because the Earth's rotation and axis do not conform to the Metric system.
My point here is that newbies might stop by, see that calender, and immediately decide that it's not worth trying to figure out.

[Wast]

With regard to the calendar, the only thing that might be off-putting for new members is the tradition of labeling elections with the Revolutionary date. So we can just add the actual date to that, and then there will be no place where the calendar is used exclusively.

[Funkadelia]

I never put forth a proposal. I merely presented my thoughts on the region as it stands in the hope of spurring on productive discussion.
I'm not pretending I have all the answers. Nor am I presenting some polished plan of action. Just voicing my concerns.

By proposal, I mean the proposals you made to re-establish a regional hierarchy and scrap the calendar.

My point is that, in the past, newbies would join. And to get appointed to a cabinet was a big deal. And it was a bigger deal to work your up through the various cabinet positions. It was, in essence, a game play mechanic. One that pushed players (members) to strive for the next level. I'm not sure it's the best thing that this has been lost.

I still disagree.

We have developed a legislative culture here over the past year that encourages citizens to be involved more directly in regional issues by voicing their opinions and formulating legislation and solutions according to the situation.

Funk, I know. I get it. And the French abandoned it because the Earth's rotation and axis do not conform to the Metric system.
My point here is that newbies might stop by, see that calender, and immediately decide that it's not worth trying to figure out.

I'm not sure what the the axis of the Earth has to do with the regional calendar.

As Wast said, most places (except for elections which can be easily changed) do not exclusively use the calendar.

It's just a fun little thing we have to keep up the spirit of nonconformity.  

[Prydania]

I believe internal recruitment wherein we guide new members of the region towards the forum would be a better plan of action, personally.

And that's what I'm talking about. A productive discussion
Really, I'm just trying to come at this from the perspective of a new player who just logged into NS and who stumbled across the region. What would make them want to stick around and take part in the community?

I would hate to concentrate more power in the hands of a single individual or a collection of Cabinet members - while that works well and is efficient for larger regions, I think the rapid growth Taijitu saw before the recent unpleasantness speaks to the success of the model we have now.

I'm thinking in terms of a game mechanic. Though I do concede that Taijitu is small enough to not need a fully fleshed out cabinet system.
I'm just trying to think of what new members can aspire to when they join.

With some focus on internal development, we could turn things around while working within our current system.

As do I.

The Citizen-Delegate is still a prestigious position and serves as Taijitu's head-of-state; I think if we foster a culture where newcomers know that Taijitu works amongst itself as a direct democracy they will be more than okay with a "first-among-equals" post like the Citizen-Delegate. Of course, the newer members of our region could probably speak of that better than I.

There is certainly something to be said for the uniqueness of a theme.

I also think that the Revolutionary Calendar is one of the most enduring parts of our theme. When working abroad, the fact that we had our own calendar was well-known and immediately gave people a vision of what our theme was. I have no problem with using it alongside a normal calendar but I like it quite a lot.

See, that's a sensible reason for it. That it gives us an identity. I'm still weary about its effect on new members, but I can definitely see its value.

[Prydania]

I never put forth a proposal. I merely presented my thoughts on the region as it stands in the hope of spurring on productive discussion.
I'm not pretending I have all the answers. Nor am I presenting some polished plan of action. Just voicing my concerns.

By proposal, I mean the proposals you made to re-establish a regional hierarchy and scrap the calendar.

Which I never did. I've put forward no legislation to that effect nor have I called for it. I've simply voiced my concerns in the hopes that it will get people talking. Me thinks you're jumping the gun just a bit.

We have developed a legislative culture here over the past year that encourages citizens to be involved more directly in regional issues by voicing their opinions and formulating legislation and solutions according to the situation.

That's all I'm doing here.

[Dyr Nasad]

Just a comment on "moving up the ranks" - we do have an ambassadorial corps that would (theoretically) prepare individuals to be C-D. We likewise have ranks in the militia that should prepare individuals to be C-S. Citizen Aides for C-I. Citizen Guides for C-L. also "general legislator" to prove activity and be a positive mark for a variety of positions. The same would be true for recruiters, once the manual system is running.

Obviously all of these could be better advertised (and should be). But to say that there are not immediate chances to get involved in [executive] government that could train you for future elected/appointed cabinet positions is not true.

(also - Hail Wast, Lawspeaker, Beacon of Reason in the Darkness)

[Myroria]

Hail Wast, Once and Future Emperor!

[Sovereign Dixie]

I disagree with the proposal set out here.

The Revolution was started to establish equality of all Citizens. This is why our offices use the prefix "Citizen," because no one is above anyone else, people just have different occupations.

Was anyone ever really that oppressed? Was anyone really suffering under any yoke of tyranny?

I do not think it is either compatible with the spirit of the revolution nor the right thing to do to re-establish a hierarchy for the sake of having a hierarchy to ascend. Every elected office has a different job, and people run for those offices because they want to do that line of work or are inspired to try to go above and beyond in service to Taijitu.

Additionally, I disagree that the Revolutionary Calendar should be scrapped. That has never been a complaint by new people as something that has made it confusing. It is hardly ever used, except for the Voice of the People or for foreign publications. It's really just a cute thing that echoes the French Revolution, when they created a new calendar to abandon the religious inspiration of the Gregorian calendar. It's just a little thing that I think is very unique and easy to explain. And it's hardly used in practicality so it's not necessary for participation in the region.

I really don't think Prydania really was concerned about the spirit of the revolution.

As far as current elected offices go, none of them really have all that much actual responsibility. The mediator is an as needed type of thing. The Liason is more or less the old Minister of Community that we used to have. The initiator is one part MoIA and one part Speaker of the Senate. Which, I admit is a nice streamlining of duties that does make sense. The Sargent fills the function of MoD, but without enough people to establish a viable Militia will have very little to do. The Delegacy is mostly seemingly cermonial and responsible for suggesting treaties and embassies and the like.

Think about it like this... as you yourself have come out and passionately defended NSGP. If a new player could have a choice between one of the fairly anemic positions above. Or go to a region with a more conventional political structure, what do you think they would choose if they were interested in Regional Political play? And yes, valid arguments can be made in favour of the current system. I don't deny that. But a bit more resonsibility to keep those in office engaged may not be the worst idea ever.

As for the calendar. Meh. I'm not a fan of it myself but there are bigger fish to fry.

I believe internal recruitment wherein we guide new members of the region towards the forum would be a better plan of action, personally. I would hate to concentrate more power in the hands of a single individual or a collection of Cabinet members - while that works well and is efficient for larger regions, I think the rapid growth Taijitu saw before the recent unpleasantness speaks to the success of the model we have now.

With some focus on internal development, we could turn things around while working within our current system. The Citizen-Delegate is still a prestigious position and serves as Taijitu's head-of-state; I think if we foster a culture where newcomers know that Taijitu works amongst itself as a direct democracy they will be more than okay with a "first-among-equals" post like the Citizen-Delegate. Of course, the newer members of our region could probably speak of that better than I.

I also think that the Revolutionary Calendar is one of the most enduring parts of our theme. When working abroad, the fact that we had our own calendar was well-known and immediately gave people a vision of what our theme was. I have no problem with using it alongside a normal calendar but I like it quite a lot.

All pretty fair points, Myro.  And really I think that most of what Prydania is talking about are points we should visit maybe at some point down the road, but not immediately.

I had thought about making a thread for this but since Prydania opened this one I'll air my thoughts here to prevent another thread from being made which would have some over lap in topic.

Honestly, my big problem with what I've seen and observed from afar over the last couple of months is just the over all divisive and hostile atmosphere I've noticed. Systems of government and the minutia of each won't matter for shit if people keep going at each other like this.

You remember how this region used to be years ago. Yes there were disagreements and we had the occasional asshat here and there but for the most part everyone was respectful, civil, and didn't demean the ideas or contributions of others. That's honestly what bothers me the most. Everything else at this point in my eyes is secondary.

[Sovereign Dixie]

With regard to the calendar, the only thing that might be off-putting for new members is the tradition of labeling elections with the Revolutionary date. So we can just add the actual date to that, and then there will be no place where the calendar is used exclusively.

That would resolve the issue, I think.

[Khem]

Just a comment on "moving up the ranks" - we do have an ambassadorial corps that would (theoretically) prepare individuals to be C-D. We likewise have ranks in the militia that should prepare individuals to be C-S. Citizen Aides for C-I. Citizen Guides for C-L. also "general legislator" to prove activity and be a positive mark for a variety of positions. The same would be true for recruiters, once the manual system is running.

Obviously all of these could be better advertised (and should be). But to say that there are not immediate chances to get involved in [executive] government that could train you for future elected/appointed cabinet positions is not true.

(also - Hail Wast, Lawspeaker, Beacon of Reason in the Darkness)

I'm wondering if the subgroups of the officer positions shouldn't be expanded to allow for more of the feeling that has been lost as referred in this thread. My brain is thinking guild-like but then I'm fresh off a dnd session.

[Sovereign Dixie]

Just a comment on "moving up the ranks" - we do have an ambassadorial corps that would (theoretically) prepare individuals to be C-D. We likewise have ranks in the militia that should prepare individuals to be C-S. Citizen Aides for C-I. Citizen Guides for C-L. also "general legislator" to prove activity and be a positive mark for a variety of positions. The same would be true for recruiters, once the manual system is running.

Obviously all of these could be better advertised (and should be). But to say that there are not immediate chances to get involved in [executive] government that could train you for future elected/appointed cabinet positions is not true.

(also - Hail Wast, Lawspeaker, Beacon of Reason in the Darkness)

I'm wondering if the subgroups of the officer positions shouldn't be expanded to allow for more of the feeling that has been lost as referred in this thread. My brain is thinking guild-like but then I'm fresh off a dnd session.

That could certainly be an idea worth exploring.

[Eluvatar]

I think that there are a few ways we could be giving new people Gameplayish things to do and these include manual recruitment, cultural events, and of course a better advertised Militia.

Manual recruitment, Gulliver and I have a system for, we'd just need to walk through with folks and make sure it works for them. It would be convenient to also use it for citizenship tracking, reducing the bookkeeping involved in that task.

I would agree that having the C-I and C-D have volunteers helping them in a defined way might be sensible.