A Proposal Re: #Taijitu_Tavern

[AwesomeSaucer]

We don't need to make this a law of sorts, or make someone oversee it.

We can simply moderate others ourselves and remind others to stay on task.  If someone talks about something other than RP on the Tavern, just remind them that they should go to the public channel to continue.  That simple! 

[Prydania]

never mind

[Myroria]

#taijitu_tavern can set its own rules however it likes as a collection of private citizens. When the government steps in there will be issues with conflicting with the BoR.

[Prydania]

#taijitu_tavern can set its own rules however it likes as a collection of private citizens. When the government steps in there will be issues with conflicting with the BoR.

Who sets those rules though? You make it seem like any collection of private citizens can decide "this is what we want the room to be" but it seems rather...exclusionary about who gets OP status. Including citizens who have no interest in RP. Which is odd given what the room was founded for. It just seems like an extension of the main #taijitu channel, where you have your OPs who are OPs just because. With no concern for what the room should be for.
Which, again, is clearly stated to be for rp and world building discussion.

Ultimately I would just like to see #taijitu_tavern live up to its stated purpose. To answer an earlier question from Funk. That's how it'll help the region. By providing Taijitu role players and world builders a dedicated Taijitu-aligned IRC channel.
I'm not proposing a massive change or shift here. Simply recognition for what the channel should be anyway.

[Funkadelia]

Taijitu Tavern can do as it wants as a collective as it is a group of individuals in a room unrelated to the Taijitu government. If I create a channel called #taijtu_funhouse for the purpose of semi-privately doing Taijitu related stand up comedy over text form, would that be just as susceptible to government takeover? Shouldn't #taijitu also be susceptible to takeover because it is Taijitu discussion? I don't see where the line should end.

[Prydania]

Taijitu Tavern can do as it wants as a collective as it is a group of individuals in a room unrelated to the Taijitu government. If I create a channel called #taijtu_funhouse for the purpose of privately doing Taijitu related stand up comedy over text form, would that be just as susceptible to government takeover? Shouldn't #taijitu also be susceptible to takeover because it is Taijitu discussion? I don't see where the line should end.

If you created #taijitu_funhouse for private standup only to have it turn into something else all together and have it abused? Then yes, you wouldn't be out of line to suggest that the region step in to ensure that it serves the purpose you intended.

#taijitu_tavern is supposed to exist for rp/world building purposes. I'm simply suggesting that this seemingly universally recognized fact be codified to ensure that Taijitu role players can count on having a Taijitu-aligned IRC channel to call their own. I'm sorry, but I don't see how this is a controversial position. To ensure that the space set aside for a group of people actually be set aside for that group.

[Funkadelia]

Government takeover of IRC channels has always been controversial. If your position was so uncontroversial, I believe we'd see many other regions legislate chat rooms, but that's simply not the case, because of the issues it can present.

[Prydania]

Again though, this is a room whose own description already calls for it to be the exclusive home for Taijitu world building and rpers. As someone who belongs to that group? I would very much like to see that this designation is properly respected.

[Gulliver]

I think having a formal place for RP'ers to meet and chat is perfectly fine. That said, I'm very uncomfortable about forcibly co-opting what was a private channel, even if it was intended for that purpose, to do so without the consent of the channel's users. I agree that doing so would impinge on the freedoms of speech and association guaranteed by the Bill of Rights and set the wrong precedent.

I personally I okay with fully, returning #taijitu_tavern to its original purpose, but I can't speak for others and if they would prefer it remain a private institution, I think it would be better to simply create a new IRC channel from scratch ('#taijitu_rp' for example is unused) as a public institution specifically for the purpose.

[Dyr Nasad]

Legislating rules for IRC channels has never been a good idea, and it is not a good idea now.

I would also like to point out the second part of the description that is apparently being ignored "Taijitu worldbuilders/citizens only." I joined it as a citizen-only channel because #taijitu includes people from half of NS at this point.

And before my post gets jumped on - I welcome more RP-talk in the channel. Though I don't write, I still enjoy taijitu's writing. All it takes is people to show up and ...well... talk about RP.

[Sovereign Dixie]

I agree with Prydania for the most part on this. For general purpose "freedom of speech" type crap there is, and has always been the main room. What Prydania is suggesting here, since there have been "incidents" in which the room got horribly off topic and butt hurt ensued, is that a proper dividing line be set up so that all of the general banter is kept where it should be, in #taijitu.

The alternative being that the room become moderated, heavily, to ensure that the RP community has a place of their own where their banter wont disrupt general convo and NSGP discussion and vice versa. Either way people are going to find something to complain about. I say fuck it, bring it to a vote and lets get the shit settled.

[Lindisfarne]

We don't need to make this a law of sorts, or make someone oversee it.

We can simply moderate others ourselves and remind others to stay on task.  If someone talks about something other than RP on the Tavern, just remind them that they should go to the public channel to continue.  That simple! 

I have to agree with this. Shouldn't be too hard. 

[St Oz]

Just a message to everyone including myself who made #taijitu_tavern a shittalking room...

Give it the fuck up. We need to reverse its image as a place to shit talk other people in Taijitu, a law would just help do that. Sure we could without the Ecclesia, but it still has the stench of the past to it to me at least.

Also Dyr, your opinion is invalid, since you're kinda the reason we need legislation on this channel. You've said on record that you don't do RP/worldbuidling and never will, yet you're an OP at #taijitu_tavern, sooooo. Maybe if you resigned and stopped connecting there we wouldn't need this legislation.

Also say what you want, but you fucks including myself still turned this RP-only channel into a Cabal-craptastic fest of gameplay oriented bullshit. I'd rather make amends with the Taijituan Citizens and surrender its authority and regulation to it. Whatever you have to say about regulating an IRC channel with the legislative is bullshit, because this isn't the main channel, it's just a side channel. We are not discussing any other IRC channel other than #taijitu_tavern. So say what you want, but I'm tired of the tavern's stigma because despite trying to make it a public channel it's still populated by game play shit. Talk about game play somewhere else, and I don't resent or hate people who do gameplay, but I just don't like it ... in the RP channel...

Sure. Talk about game play in the main thread, make another cabal channel somewhere else, I don't care. Just leave the tavern to the worldbuilders, is that so fucking hard. Are you such dipshits that you're going to claw away at this in the name of free speech? I'd like a channel for freedom from certain speech, without the unwelcoming stigma it still has.

[Gulliver]

As someone who was complicit in the unpleasant things said in #taijitu_tavern, I have no desire to hang on to it so that it can be kept using like that. I think we're all in agreement that that was destructive and shouldn't happen again.

But we're still talking about the idea that it's okay for the government to seize IRC channels if people use them in a questionable way. That's not a road we should be going down (and is futile because no matter what people can always chat with each other outside of the forum or official IRC's if they feel like it).

We can just as easily accomplish the goal of ending the badmouthing behind closed doors and setting up proper RP discussion room by making a new, fresh IRC channel and just letting #taijitu_tavern die out. Let's let sleeping dogs lie and start fresh. #taijitu_tavern has been too marred by its misuse at this point to be a good choice.

[Myroria]

I don't think telling anyone their opinions are invalid fosters healthy debate.

I also am not passing judgment on the intent of the law at this time, only its legality and practicality. I suppose in the end it's a moot point since we never established a constitutional court.