Fir Solidarity Movement

[Zimmerwald]

OOC: let's see, how much do I want to provoke Irnotia?   

To: The Empire of Irnotia

In light of your recent announcement, I feel obliged to point out that Gallipoli-China cannot lawfully comply with it.  As you see, article eleven of our Constitution states that

The Workers’ Social Democracy of Gallipoli-China grants asylum to those who are persecuted because of their ideals or their struggles for democratic rights; against imperialism, fascism, colonialism, and neocolonialism; against discrimination and racism; for national liberation; for the rights of workers and the redress of their grievances; for the progressive political, scientific, artistic, and literary activities; for socialism; for peace.

  While the Gallipoli-Chinese state has not pledged money, material, or other aid to the Fir Solidarity Movement, it would be quite impossible for us to deny their members asylum in our territory should they seek it. 

Any government that tried to violate Article Eleven would find itself recalled and replaced for failing to follow the law, and our people will not consent to amend the Constitution for such a reason as this.  Gallipoli-China wishes to know what Irnotia's response will be if we are, in the future, forced to carry out our law.

Aram Caros, Foreign Relations Committee Chairman, Gallipoli-China.

[Ranholn]

To the nation of G-C. If you wish to become a terrorist state who takes pride in supporting those who slay innocents for their own joy then you will be seen as such vile beasts. If the great Empire that I serve learns that you have no moral dignity and give support to terrorists and murderers we will know you have declared war against us and are a rouge state who does not value peace or human life.
Honorably yours,
Legatus Legionis Nero

ooc: nero is such a nice man

[Zimmerwald]

OOC: way to not answer my question.

To: Legatus Legionis Nero

In my last message to you, after outlining our legal predicament, I asked "Gallipoli-China wishes to know what Irnotia's response will be if we are, in the future, forced to carry out our law."  You responded with two sentences of invective that did absolutely nothing to resolve the issue.  From your letter, I can see that there will only be one response should we be forced to obey our own unaltered laws.  Your nation will declare war.

I find this incredibly unreasonable.  The Constitution was drafted far before your current troubles with the Fir Solidarity Movement.  It was drafted before your unilateral declaration of policy against terrorism (i.e., three posts above this one).  A proposal to amend it has been soundly defeated, by a 78/22 vote margin in a special session of the National Assembly of People's Power.  I cannot see how the nation of Gallipoli-China can be punished for following one of its own laws, which, at the time it was adopted, did not conflict with any policy so proclaimed by your government.  Know too that the international community will not consent to nations being attacked because they follow their own laws.

I will add another question to my original one: what steps, short of amending the Constitution, which has already failed, can Gallipoli-China take to avoid an attack by Irnotia should we be forced to carry out our law?

[Ranholn]

ooc:he did kinda respond to it, we declare war. you didn't ask what G-C should do i read over it twice, you asked what we would do. And remember, Nero does not equal the government he is just in charge of the military. this is really funny if you read my little blurb in your council

TO Aram Caros

Would you be happy and complacent if our nation accepted murderers from your nation into our own. Would you be happy if rapist, serial killers and the like in order to escape punishment for slaughtering your citizens could just come to our nation and be free from any punishment for what they did. Would you be happy if those same people were still able to organize from our nation to kill more in your nation knowing that they were free from any possible retaliation since our government protects them?

No, despite your rhetoric and high ideals I do not think you would be pleased if such things were done by our nation to yours. Why do you then expect us to be happy and content with you doing the same to us. Why should we fell happy about you saying that if it came to it you would allow such people freedom from justice and the ability to continue killing citizens that I have sworn to protect.

You see I am not a legal expert. I know little of my own legal system and yet you expect me to know the inter-working of your own. All I propose to you is that you do not allow he cowards that are in this organization to live free in your nation. How you plan on doing that is on your heads and so is anything that happens from them. On you is placed the future blood or peace that will come from your actions. I think it would be a simple choice but that does not seem the case.

For this I ask Apollo to grant you his wisdom so you may make a good choice.
Legatus Legionis Nero

ooc: he is a man of faith... VIVA LA ROMAN GODS

[fir_solidarity_Movement]

"hmmm I think they are at war or something. Really dont know for sure. So what exactly did you say in this massive thing?"

[Zimmerwald]

OOC: That's why I added the "what should we do?" into the second message.

IC:

TO Aram Caros

Would you be happy and complacent if our nation accepted murderers from your nation into our own. Would you be happy if rapist, serial killers and the like in order to escape punishment for slaughtering your citizens could just come to our nation and be free from any punishment for what they did. Would you be happy if those same people were still able to organize from our nation to kill more in your nation knowing that they were free from any possible retaliation since our government protects them?

We would not be happy about it, but we would not fault Irnotia for following their own laws.  It is not our business what your nation does or does not do.  However, I do not think this is an appropriate analogy.  As far as I know, Irnotia does not protect rapists, murderers, or any such individuals into its nation.

No, despite your rhetoric and high ideals I do not think you would be pleased if such things were done by our nation to yours. Why do you then expect us to be happy and content with you doing the same to us. Why should we fell happy about you saying that if it came to it you would allow such people freedom from justice and the ability to continue killing citizens that I have sworn to protect.

As I said, this is a moot point, because Irnotian policy forbids it from carrying out such actions.  We are not discussing Irnotian policy, and I would appreciate it if you'd keep straw men out of the debate.

You see I am not a legal expert. I know little of my own legal system and yet you expect me to know the inter-working of your own. All I propose to you is that you do not allow he cowards that are in this organization to live free in your nation. How you plan on doing that is on your heads and so is anything that happens from them. On you is placed the future blood or peace that will come from your actions. I think it would be a simple choice but that does not seem the case.

I do not expect you to know all our laws; that's why I informed you of them.  As I said, there is no way around them, and if you do not want war with Gallipoli-China, which would be an outcome neither of us look for, I see that the only course of action is for Irnotia to prevent emigration from its colonies.

[Ranholn]

ooc: did you address your letter to yourself?

The purpose of that was to show you what you were doing to us and to see if you would find it a reasonable act. Clearly your law also makes it so you are not allowed to see this as well. If your law demands that you support terrorism by giving them a place to hide then you have no place to complain when you are treated as a terrorist state since you wish to be one.

You take an interesting point to declare that we should put effort to restrict the freedoms of our own citizens to make it so you can keep claiming moral high-ground. We do not allow known terrorists to leave our nation in fact they are ordered to be executed on site. The laws limiting the emigration of those of the Firian Tribe have also ended as the war that needed it has ended for now. I feel that instead you should restrict the ability of immigration into your lands if you do not want the results of those activities. Any nation may make a law, but that law is not imposed or relevant to anyone outside that nation. We care not what reasons you give to give support to terrorism, if we find you do you will be treated the same as any other nation, with or without such a law.

Do not take this as a sign we want war, in fact you are the only person here that seems to be looking for it. No we want the security of our people from terrorism and murderers, and nothing more.

ooc: i was wondering what would happen of that news post about the government voting on what to do in gaulasia, finally something is happening

[Zimmerwald]

To: Nero

How about this; Gallipoli-China accepts any Firian immigrants that may choose to come here, including members of the FSM if they are able to elude your authorities, but we make it as difficult as possible for them to carry out independent violent actions as long as they are residents in our nation.  Would that be acceptable?

[Ranholn]

ooc: damn that was fast. hahaha
 

What you decide is up to you and of no concern to me. Just know that if we learn of FSM members in your nation we will demand their extradition to our lands and if you refuse we will take it as you giving open support to them.

ooc: do you notice if you try and ad a smily or something after writing it always adds it to the end not where ever you are typing... or is that just me?

[Zimmerwald]

OOC: sometimes.  More often it puts it at the beginning of the post for some reason.

[Finn Baicheng]

"I told them that you guys were a group of freedom fighters who's people had been oppressed by the Irnotians for your race and ethnicity, and that people should give you support in this war. You might just get public support in Loyalist, seeing how we had a similar history of ethnic prosecution. So are you letting me go soon? Or am I stuck here forever, boss?"

[fir_solidarity_Movement]

"that for Jean Jak to decide, but you can send one letter out by way of the demonic guys who help us. wear some fucking weird ass masks to be honest. But dont think your leaving so soon, Irnotia still swamping the borders"

[Finn Baicheng]

I leaned back on my chair. "So what are you gonna do with me now? I know you're not just gonna let me stay safely inside while everyone else is fighting..."

[fir_solidarity_Movement]

"that for Jak to decide, now you get to write your one letter, we will read it of course before you send it out. Then the immortals will come to you and take it to be delivered. So think well what you want to write. As for us, we have some invading bastards to take out, ta"

[Finn Baicheng]

"Shh."

For the remainder of the night, I finished the letter on the typewriter, placing it in a envelope for Jak to review the next day.