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Author Topic: STAND FOR YOUR RIGHTS OF CHOICE!  (Read 4263 times)

Offline Tacolicious

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Re: STAND FOR YOUR RIGHTS OF CHOICE!
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2007, 08:18:32 PM »
I'm not touching this with a ten-foot pole.

Actually, I am. Even though I'm a libertarian, and one might think I'd find this a major violation of someone's rights, I'm not angered like some. Those that were in the army shouldn't be upset, because this was an order. Calling ejecting those in the army "a violation of their rights" is akin to calling the order of a general a violation of the soldier's rights.

HOWEVER,

It may or may not be the case that those that were not in the army were ejected. If this was the case (Which I don't know), it is a total violation of their rights, and, as Taco said, conscription.

In a nutshell:

If you're in the army, stop bitching.
If you're not, then be angered.

It is, also, a ZOMGHUGE violation of TRR's rights to FORCE a democracy on them. If they don't want a democracy, so what? Unless the people themselves ASK you to make a democracy, it's just another invasion, which, as I've made public on IRC, despise because it forces someone to give up their freedom.

Well I'm not in the military and was ejected and many people not in the military were also ejected with no prior warning in the middle of the night. If this were a strictly military act I would not be objecting.
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Offline The Empire

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Re: STAND FOR YOUR RIGHTS OF CHOICE!
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2007, 08:46:11 PM »
Though I, as Romanar, see the strategic and tactical genious to mask the invasion by also ejecting non-military citizens, I fully agree with Myroria in that doing so is an atrocity of it's own similiar to using red cross ambulances as offencive troop carriers to infiltrate behind enemy lines in RL.

EDIT: A way to tell something is REALLY out of place: I, Soly AND Garth agree! :o
« Last Edit: July 21, 2007, 08:48:58 PM by The Empire »

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Offline Khablan

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Re: STAND FOR YOUR RIGHTS OF CHOICE!
« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2007, 08:50:21 PM »
Alright, I've thought a great deal about this.  I can understand the feelings on many sides of this.  

1.  That it is a game, and that military strategy and takeovers are a part of it.  In our Ministry of Defense, it says "We specialise in neither invading nor defending, striving to be the epitome of excellence in both fields."  I read that when I first came to Taijitu, and because of that, I chose not to join the armed forces.  Raiding isn't for me, although I know there are others who enjoy that aspect of the game.  But I chose to stay in Taijitu anyway, knowing that raids might happen, because I accept that it's part of the game.

2.  And I can understand Taco's stance, that he is firmly opposed to raiding and is angry to have been forced to take part in one without his knowledge, when he thought that simply not choosing to take part in one would be enough.  To me, that is good reason for our region -not- to do this again.

3.  And I can see Flemingovia's side as well, that although this is a game, communities develop, and people are upset when this sort of thing happens.  I know I would have been upset if someone had raided Taijitu, because I'm happy with the delegate that we have and the others in government as well.  It wouldn't change the fact that the people I know and love are still in the region, though, and that's really the most important of the game for me.  That's just my own personal perspective on things.

As for my own thoughts on the matter, I would have advised against it if I'd been asked, for the reason that Taco gave - some are strongly against raiding at all and I think we have to respect that when we can.  But I'm still supporting Gunner.  Even though raiding isn't for me, I accept that it is a part of the game, and that power does play an important role in that aspect of things.  I can ignore the military aspects because they don't interest me.  But what he did was strategically sound.  

I also know him to be a fair and level-headed person, and not some rogue who doesn't care what the rest of us think.  I know he's reading all of the responses, and he's taking them to heart.  Note that I didn't say I -believe- that he is.  I -know- that he is.  When I spoke with him privately and expressed concern for how this is all going to affect him, he responded by saying that he's expendable, that it's Taijitu that's important.  I know he's considering everything that's been said, and he'll make his decisions based on what's best for the region.

 
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Offline The Empire

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Re: STAND FOR YOUR RIGHTS OF CHOICE!
« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2007, 08:57:41 PM »
Note that I am just saying that I belive a double atrocity has been commited, firstly agains the non-military citizens of Taijitu that was ejected as a cover-up of the offencive and then against the members of TRR assuming they did not ask for this invasion/intervention.
I am not calling for heads.



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Offline Osamafune

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Re: STAND FOR YOUR RIGHTS OF CHOICE!
« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2007, 09:27:54 PM »
Ok, now that I have more time on my hands I can explain why I'm pretty ticked off by this.

Mainly my concern is for others in the region: Those with a large number of endorsements that lost them due to being ejected and those that weren't in the army (like me). The fact that we were lied to when it was said that it was for "spreading democracy," and to me seems like a lie and nothing more than an ego trip, and even if it was for "spreading democracy," it was the complete wrong way to go about it. Forcing a region into a certain government is hardly democratic. Lastly there's this little, totally unimportant document called "the constitution" that was violated in the process, which Taco pointed out.

I'm all for raiding, even for a self-centered ego trip, but I don't appreciate being lied too and I don't appreciate that those who didn't want to do it were forced too.


I've moved back to Taijitu, I'll be damned if Dixie or Gunner get my endorsements, and I'm all for his impeachment.

Offline Tacolicious

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Re: STAND FOR YOUR RIGHTS OF CHOICE!
« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2007, 09:29:38 PM »
I would ask that you endorse not to show support but to protect our now weakened position. The current delegate in Taijitu has a scant 73 endorsements right now which could easily be taken in a counter strike against us. I like yesterday better when I didn't have to worry about retaliation or keeping the region in the hands of the legally elected delegate.
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Offline Solnath

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Re: STAND FOR YOUR RIGHTS OF CHOICE!
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2007, 10:01:21 PM »
Some may call me a dick for this, but if I had been Delegate, this wouldn't have happened.
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Offline Myroria

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Re: STAND FOR YOUR RIGHTS OF CHOICE!
« Reply #22 on: July 21, 2007, 10:02:13 PM »
You're such a dick, Soly.
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Offline The Empire

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Re: STAND FOR YOUR RIGHTS OF CHOICE!
« Reply #23 on: July 21, 2007, 10:09:08 PM »
And so are you Garth ;)

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Offline Bara

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Re: STAND FOR YOUR RIGHTS OF CHOICE!
« Reply #24 on: July 21, 2007, 10:09:44 PM »
can someone tell me whats going on!
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Offline Tacolicious

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Re: STAND FOR YOUR RIGHTS OF CHOICE!
« Reply #25 on: July 21, 2007, 10:16:10 PM »
Read the link in the very first post of this thread Bara. It explains what this is all about.
http://www.nationstates.net/wheresoever

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"Wisest is he who knows he is not wise"
"Nothing is fun when you have to do it, that's why you don't see a lot of old whores giggling over sex"


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Offline Bara

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Re: STAND FOR YOUR RIGHTS OF CHOICE!
« Reply #26 on: July 21, 2007, 10:24:32 PM »
so..a invasion just happened?
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Offline Tacolicious

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Re: STAND FOR YOUR RIGHTS OF CHOICE!
« Reply #27 on: July 21, 2007, 10:41:43 PM »
http://z8.invisionfree.com/The_RR_and_RRA/index.php?showtopic=1657

I believe this topic from TRR forums pretty much sums up the way they feel about what has happened.
http://www.nationstates.net/wheresoever

"Reality is an illusion albeit a persistant one"
"Wisest is he who knows he is not wise"
"Nothing is fun when you have to do it, that's why you don't see a lot of old whores giggling over sex"


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Offline Bara

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Re: STAND FOR YOUR RIGHTS OF CHOICE!
« Reply #28 on: July 21, 2007, 11:23:05 PM »
oh, Revolution that we are supporting by invading?
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Offline Khem

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Re: STAND FOR YOUR RIGHTS OF CHOICE!
« Reply #29 on: July 21, 2007, 11:50:24 PM »
* The Wonderful PUR slaps her forehead.
and this is why we have been crucifying Insane Power for so long.
i am pretty upset this happened without consulting the community first, this realy should have been chosen by the people. so much for democracy. hey PURhaps another region will spawn because of this..... i hope not.

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