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Author Topic: Concerning the mind and repentance  (Read 11294 times)

Offline Solnath

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Re: Concerning the mind and repentance
« Reply #30 on: July 22, 2007, 09:41:40 AM »
Omniscience has a nasty trait. You know everything. Hence you consent to everything that will ever happen.
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Offline Naivetry

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Re: Concerning the mind and repentance
« Reply #31 on: July 22, 2007, 08:18:22 PM »
That's the price of freedom.
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[11:40pm] Soly: Violence is a poor solution.
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Offline Solnath

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Re: Concerning the mind and repentance
« Reply #32 on: July 22, 2007, 08:24:22 PM »
Whose freedom?
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Offline Naivetry

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Re: Concerning the mind and repentance
« Reply #33 on: July 23, 2007, 03:30:50 PM »
Humanity's.
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[11:40pm] Soly: Violence is a poor solution.
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Offline Solnath

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Re: Concerning the mind and repentance
« Reply #34 on: July 23, 2007, 03:34:20 PM »
Well in that case, you'll have to define "freedom," because at the moment it seems like the fact that we're all controlled is the price of freedom according to you.
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Offline Naivetry

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Re: Concerning the mind and repentance
« Reply #35 on: July 23, 2007, 05:13:00 PM »
<_<

Free will and omniscience are compatible.  Is that the statement we need to argue?
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[11:40pm] Soly: Violence is a poor solution.
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Offline Solnath

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Re: Concerning the mind and repentance
« Reply #36 on: July 23, 2007, 05:20:34 PM »
Yes, how does that work, Na-chan?
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Offline Naivetry

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Re: Concerning the mind and repentance
« Reply #37 on: July 23, 2007, 06:23:40 PM »
It has to do with the nature of time.

Time is something we experience linearly, as a succession of single moments.  We can only act in the present moment; the past is only a memory, and the future only a guess.

An eternal (= outside of time) God is not limited to dealing with reality only a single moment at a time.  Instead of "losing" each of his moments to the past or having them doled out in portions, for God, every moment is equally the present.

Thus, it is only from our temporally limited perspective that we can say, "God knew beforehand" - for God, there is no knowing beforehand and no knowing afterward, but only the manifold perception of our present actions.  He is omniscient because omnipresent in each moment, equally.  I submit that having an audience in this sense does not make our choices any less free.  God knows what we will do next Tuesday simply because he is already there watching us do it.
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Offline Solnath

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Re: Concerning the mind and repentance
« Reply #38 on: July 23, 2007, 06:28:34 PM »
God knows what we do and allows us to do it and nothing anywhere can stop him from stopping us from doing something that would go against His divine plan.
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Offline Naivetry

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Re: Concerning the mind and repentance
« Reply #39 on: July 23, 2007, 06:35:33 PM »
And why shouldn't the divine plan allow for freedom?  If we are made in the image of God, we are participants with him in the unfolding of the divine story; not executors of a pre-set script.

Think RP and not novel.  :P
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[11:40pm] Soly: Violence is a poor solution.
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Offline Solnath

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Re: Concerning the mind and repentance
« Reply #40 on: July 23, 2007, 06:37:48 PM »
DM-based or free-form?
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Offline Naivetry

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Re: Concerning the mind and repentance
« Reply #41 on: July 23, 2007, 07:07:39 PM »
I'm more familiar with DM-based so that seems like a safer analogy... but no railroading PCs.
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[11:40pm] Soly: Violence is a poor solution.
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Offline Solnath

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Re: Concerning the mind and repentance
« Reply #42 on: July 23, 2007, 07:14:17 PM »
How can we trust the DM not to?

EDIT: Also, we're the characters and God's also all of the players.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2007, 07:21:33 PM by Soly »
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Offline Naivetry

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Re: Concerning the mind and repentance
« Reply #43 on: July 23, 2007, 07:23:17 PM »
Because it's in his best interest as well as everyone else's that the game turn out well.

And not railroading doesn't mean he can't still nudge players along and drop hints about the best course of action.

EDIT:  Ah, but no!  That's the thing.  We're not just the characters.  That's the whole point of the immortality of the soul.  These characters we create - the lives we play out - reflect a spiritual existence greater than what we look like on paper.  Right now, we feel like our characters... we are our characters... but when the game is over, we'll all realize we've been something more, too, all along.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2007, 07:36:19 PM by Naivetry »
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Offline Solnath

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Re: Concerning the mind and repentance
« Reply #44 on: July 23, 2007, 07:38:59 PM »
And then we kick the DM's ass because he did nasty things to the characters we loved. Did I break your analogy?
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