Columbine has been surpassed

[Barceleroth]

I just read through this whole topic for the first time.... How did I just know that some European bastards were going to turn such a terrible tragedy into an excuse for another anti-US political rant?  Absolutely pathetic.  

Empire, you seemed like a decent, intelligent guy.  However, when you repeatedly call my nation, THE United States of America, barbaric, power-hungry, ignorant, and God knows what else, I just got two words for you: fuck off.  

Then you go on to call others cowards for stating their beliefs: that compulsory military service is a form of intrusion upon an individual's inalienable rights.  I agree with Ryaz in this.  You sound really dense here, Emp.  First you said that the members of a professional army were ignorant, especially those who 'do, and don't think.'  Then you call any person unwilling to support a conscription-based army a coward.  You can't have it both ways.  So make up your mind, before you throw insults.  In my opinion, the truly ignorant people is the one that will give their government such absolute power as to allow the government to use them in any war of its own choosing.  

And then, you were so low as to insult the United States Marine Corps.  The Corps is the most hallowed group of men (and women) that ever fought in the name of freedom, and can kick the shit out of any army on this planet, nevermind your own country you're constantly reffering to (sorry, is it Switerzerland or Sweden?).  If you want to be a sissy socialist, support conscription-armies, insult the USMC and the United States of America, boast about your pathetic Swedish army (or Swiss?), and all in a topic that was created to discuss a tragic murder that involved my countrymen, you're nothing more than scum in my eyes.  Typical European.  Somebody brought up WWI and WWII... (someone said that the US wasn't really involved in WWI... that somebody needs to go back to school and learn to read- the US suffered 300,000 casualties in that war, all good men who went to fight for an ideal, not because they had to). That's the root of all this resentment I'm seeing, isn't it?  You babies are all mad that the US had to fight your wars for you, and win them for you (however I completely exempt England from this- if there are any Brits here, I got nothing but love for you and your country, and all you've done for the world).  It becomes obvious to me, when I see you on one hand say that the US is 'selfish and cowardly' because we didn't jump into WWII from day one.  And then you tell us to stay home, leave our bases in Europe and Asia, and stop trying to be "world police."  I think Empire said that if N. Korea did cross the 38th parralell, it wouldn't be any of our concern anyway.  Well, yeah, just like HITLER was none of our concern, RIGHT?  I mean, the V-rockets didn't reach the East Coast, why on earth would we want to go help you?  And you can say that we didn't join until Pearl Harbor, but in reality, the Lend-Lease Act was basically a premature declaration or war.  We had already thrown our lot in with the Allies (or what was left of them).  But there were still alot of people in the US that thought like Empire does: they didn't want us to be 'world police.'  It wasn't any of our concern anyway, right?  Yeah....  Typical, short-sighted, hypocritical, ingrateful Europeans.


And to get back to the topic at hand, (the intended one) I feel horribly for those affected by the Virginia Tech murders.  I'm also disgusted with those who seek to use it as a political tool.  Allama, you had a couple dark posts questioning the "good nature" in Man-kind.  Well, all I can say is that even in the darkest of times, there are instances of heroism.  Namely, in this case, Liviu Librescu.  This guy acted in truly heroic fashion, and he has all of my respect and admiration.

Again, my heart goes out to the families and friends of the victims, and I hope that these people will be able to soon heal from this terrible hurt.

[Algerianbania]

Damn this is the rant thread of the century. Barc, i completly agree with your statement apart from what you say in your middle paragraph about America is like a world police and they how the "US had to fight your wars for you, and win them for you". How more freaking uneducated and right wing can you get? In all the real wars, WWI and II, America was provoked into them. We didn't fight them for anyone but ourselves and to shut-down Germany. Before that we were provoked by the Spanish, the Mexican, the South, the British, and the British again. After the War, we were provoked by communism, and communism again, oil, a plane and a tower, and now invisible WMDs.  But apart from I agree with your entire statement.

To New History:

Actually, communism is an ultimate ideal which actually fits the United States in many ways.  It's just the ultimate ideal has never been realized.  And, government owning the means of production and all the land is anti-American, but otherwise, a generally good idea.  It's implementation always sucks though.  So, Communism = Alright.  Communists = bad.

Exactly. On paper it is about the most sexy form of government possible, but when you put it to the test.....um not so much. Personally I think Trotsky was a genius. Just under appreciated.

[Delfos]

lol i must say this is all pathetic. 1st you cant say the USMC can beat any other army, i bet the red army can beat the hell of any other army in the world. anyway for example, the Portuguese army and all the other special forces are known to be one of the best peace keeping forces in the world, can the USMC do that? no way lol, we also have great engineers, guess whose engineers are rebuilding Lebanon after the crap Israel did there? can the USMC do that? no ofc not, they even support Israel on bombing innocents. and so on.

i already written a post for this topic but somehow i erased by accident and didn't wanna write all over again, but seems people are pushing it. Columbine will happen over and over, the problems existent there are existent now, and what happened in Virginia is the proof of that. When you give up the damn pride of your 2nd amendment and start doing some social work this stuff will decrease hard! i cant believe people havent figured out why this things happen, why USA has the most mortality of firearms in the world. Why instead of solving your problems you just let it be like justifying the fact that this things happen to enforce the problem. Look at what iv written and see if it's not all those things you say you dont us to call you..

whats up with the commies? poor guys, why are they bad? americans are bad too, as i said they support and enforce slaughter, where? middle east, when? in the past, now, and if this keeps going, probably will continue till americans leave middle east. why? they are just mean, they think theire army is the best in the world. no you'r a world's potency..why? because you have all those army men..why else? hmph..cant find any other reason..maybe potency of consuming petrol, do you know USA consumes 75% of the world's petrol? amasing... the whole world lives happy with 25% of this, while USA consumes 3 quarters of it..wtf something must be wrong here! you'r the man in petrol! your economy is so based on petrol that any hit on it can generate crashes, but it's amasing how USA avoided several crashes in the past times making wars. lets shed blood not our dear petrol!

EU is fine thanks for asking, we'r the man in environmentalism, even if it shakes our economy, at least we live in a better and free world and we'r free of guilt. now go pollute a bit more so there can be more tornadoes over there.

[Solnath]

OTHER THREAD. NOW.

[Allama]

That's only a flaw to someone who is so cowardly that they aren't prepared to fight personally for what they belive in and so selfish they pay others to do their dirty work.

I have to disagree with you on that, very strongly.  Not everyone agrees with their government's stances and whatnot, or with how their military is used.  If they tried to conscript me into the U.S. army (assuming women were eligible for draft here, that is) I would fight it, not wanting to become a part of a body trained to follow orders I don't support.  If they refused to grant "conscientious objector" status and attempted to ship me out anyway I would choose to serve jail time rather than capitulate.  I don't see refusal to go along with something you think is morally wrong as selfishness or cowardice; I think it's quite the opposite.

Also: ouch.

[Myroria]

I personally think the Roman army was the greatest fighting force ever, with the US the greatest modern one.

The Red Army just has a bunch of people in it. Their tactics are "swarm them with tanks, we can win!"

No offense, but Portugal doesn't really do anything. It's true. Sure, I bet Portugal's army is great, but it's just that they don't really choose to project power.

And if the second amendment got repealed, I would move to a more libertarian country, honestly. You can't murder someone if they have a gun too. If gun ownership was compulsory and we did register them still, those students would be kicking the shit outta that kid!Bang! Bang! DEAD!

...And pollution doesn't cause tornadoes. The mix of warm and cold air does. Besides, we're the dominant species of Earth for a reason. It's inevitable that Earth will become an ecumenopolis eventually; it's in our best interest. If the animals die, big deal. They're animals, we don't need them, we have synthetic stuff anyway.

[Solnath]

I could almost say you're kidding, Myro. The last two paragraphs are comedy gold.

Oh yeah, and don't forget:

OTHER THREAD. NOW.

[Allama]

Allama, you had a couple dark posts questioning the "good nature" in Man-kind.  Well, all I can say is that even in the darkest of times, there are instances of heroism.  Namely, in this case, Liviu Librescu.  This guy acted in truly heroic fashion, and he has all of my respect and admiration.

I believe in the good nature of humanity quite wholeheartedly; it's just that grand examples of human hatred makes it difficult on occasion.  Deep down, I think all people have the potential to do great good or great evil.  What makes me think this indicates good nature is that almost all people are happier and more satisfied in their deepest, most secret heart when they live a life of kindness and self-sacrifice.  The more you do for others, the more truly you realize that who you are is wonderful and this leads to a deep sense of worth and joy you cannot find when you hate and rage.

Librescu is a perfect example of what helps me keep true to my philosophy.

[Daimiaen]

I think this thread has so veered off topic it may be an idea to lock it and let some people have a time out and take a few deep breaths.....

Dai....

[Delfos]

bang bang bang die! well we favor life, we don't like dead people, so we don't like guns that kill people..or is that people that kill people? or is that people with guns that kill people? anyway, everyone has the right to live, even if they are criminals, thats why we dont have death penalty nor shoot people for breaking the law. thats libertarian for me, for you if to be free to kill, for me is to be free to live.

[Zimmerwald]

Remember the true enemy of the USA is not Muslims, it has been and always will be communists. F*ck commies.

The only good thing that has been said in this thread.  The rest is mindless stereotyping, jingoistic nationalism based on false claims (The USA is not the only country in the world ruled by a Constitution), and general asshattery.

I'm staying out of it.

[Myroria]

Delfos, you are in NO WAY a libertarian. You are completely and totally socialist-liberal. Libertarians, most at least, believe wholeheartedly in the death penalty. If you were attacked you WOULD strike back. Don't even SAY you wouldn't. It's human nature, much as in a life-and-death situation, you'd eat a dead person, even if you say "No I wouldn't", YES YOU WOULD. It's the same deal with the death penalty. How many murders were there in the ancient world, where many thought of "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth"? Few, compared to today. If murder got you the death penalty, there's a whole lot more to make you not do it again than life in prison, which even now is getting shortened to 25-60 years some places. The world's gone all to hell since liberalism. It really makes me sad.

[Delfos]

well try to get a definition of libertanian, if there says they belive in death penalty then you must be right. still if you think the libertanians can kill because they are free...hmm maybe you'r right, libertanians suck! lets jail all libertanians before they kill anyone else!

[Myroria]

...

I never said libertarians want to kill anyone because they can. I said that many believe that if a murderer takes their victim's life (which they own), the murderer can have his life taken. Libertarians believing in just taking any life because you can violate their own principles, which hold that...

all persons are the absolute owners of their own lives, and should be free to do whatever they wish with their persons or property, provided they allow others the same liberty and avoid harming others by abusing their liberty.

Libertarians don't believe in taking one's life unless in self defense, because that violates their natural right to live. If the violator took away someone else's right to live, we must take theirs.

And to your first statement...

Libertarians generally do not oppose force used in response to initiatory aggressions such as violence, fraud or trespassing. Libertarians favor an ethic of self-responsibility and strongly oppose the welfare state, because they believe forcing someone to provide aid to others is ethically wrong, ultimately counter-productive, or both. Libertarians also strongly oppose conscription.

[Ryazania]

libertanians suck! lets jail all libertanians before they kill anyone else!

Die.