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Author Topic: GC for Senator...senatorus...torus...mmm, doughnuts  (Read 2617 times)

Offline Zimmerwald

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GC for Senator...senatorus...torus...mmm, doughnuts
« on: June 21, 2010, 10:38:10 PM »
Apparently election threads are supposed to be short and sweet, so I'll just type a few words and then let you throw me on a bed of charcoal and proceed to grill me.  I hope your grilling is thorough enough so that you don't get trichonosis or salmonella when you lay me out as a main course.

I believe myself qualified for the Senator position: here's why.  I have an eye for detail, and insist on precision and contingency planning in legislation to such an extent that it annoyed such pedants as Eluvatar and Gulliver.  When it comes to politics I am most concerned with helping to preserve Taijitu's citizens' oversight  and power over their government.  I know there are good reasons why government should be able to act in certain situations, but there are enough advocates of government power out there, and they're quite good at what they do.  Taijitu in its heyday was ever so much more than an NS region: it was and will be a community, with members able to say and do what they think best in the company of those they think best.  That's certainly my ideal Taijitu: I hope it's yours.

That went on a little longer than I planned, but it's a good little post, so I'm not going to tamper with it.  Time for the grill then, I suppose.


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Offline Eluvatar

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Re: GC for Senator...senatorus...torus...mmm, doughnuts
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2010, 10:44:27 PM »
1. What is your opinion on the Rejected Realms incident?
2. What is your favourite colour? Why?
3. Our new Constitution is longer than our original Constitution. Why? Is the reason good or bad?
4. Why is the Earth an oblate spheroid?
5. If the Speaker is a Senator and the Speaker has the power to break ties, can the speaker vote normally, and then resolve a tie if it occurred?
6. What is the capital of the nation formerly known as Upper Volte?
7. What is special about the number 7 in NationStates?
                                 
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Offline Zimmerwald

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Re: GC for Senator...senatorus...torus...mmm, doughnuts
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2010, 11:18:40 PM »
1. What is your opinion on the Rejected Realms incident?
As a military case study, the campaign was innovative, though it would only work in special circumstances (when the invading region is large, and when the invading Delegate has a large number of endorsements and high seniority, and when the founder nation is active).  It would be unfair to PoD not to mention that.  However, it was also a case study of backroom scheming, Delegate overreach, and unpardonable lack of transparency, and these are the things which have been and should be remembered.  Incidents like this are why transparency and several levels of oversight - of the Delegate by the Senate and Judiciary, and of at least the Senate by the citizenry - are necessary.

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2. What is your favourite colour? Why?
I am quite fond of maroon.  On one level, I like it because it goes well with my skin tone, and I look nice in it.  As a color, it is solid, but hints at depths of resolve.

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3. Our new Constitution is longer than our original Constitution. Why? Is the reason good or bad?
I'm not sure what you mean when you say "original Constitution".  The first adopted Constitution of Taijitu's first incarnation?  The last adopted Constitution of Taijitu's first incarnation?  The first draft of the current Constitution?  If you would clarify this so that I might give a better answer, I would be grateful.  Until you do, I will assume you mean the first adopted Constitution of Taijitu's first incarnation, and answer based on that assumption, for the sake of giving an answer.

The current Constitution is the product of far greater experience than the original.  There was the aforementioned Rejected Realms incident, other amendments to the original Constitution that were carried over in some form or another to this one, and some reforms that increased the word count of the Constitution while simplifying procedures or creating new but necessary ones.  This process is not a bad one, and learning through experience and adaptation are necessary.  Constitutions and other documents should strive to be brief and readable, though not at the cost of necessary procedures and protections.

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4. Why is the Earth an oblate spheroid?
The Earth is an oblate spheroid (it is not an ideal oblate sphereoid: its shape is irregular and is termed a "geoid") because its rotation creates forces that tend to pull mass away from the center of mass at the equator, and towards it at the poles.  I'm sure there are names for these forces, but I'm not going to bother my physicist roommate in Baltimore about it at 7 at night when he's enjoying himself.

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5. If the Speaker is a Senator and the Speaker has the power to break ties, can the speaker vote normally, and then resolve a tie if it occurred?
The Speaker is a Senator before she is elected Speaker by the other Senators.  As such, she has gained, before gaining the Speakership, all the rights of any Senator, including the right to vote on pending legislation.  In being elected Speaker, the Senators do not take away that right, nor does she give it up by seeking the position: the Speaker is merely a Senator with extra responsiblities towards her fellow Senators, not a Senator with fewer rights than those granted to her by those citizens who voted for her.  To remove her vote on pending legislation is to disenfranchise those who put her into office, and nobody wants that.  Furthermore, though a tie is a possible consequence of a Senate vote, it is only possible if not every Senator is able or willing to cast a vote.  The number of Senators is fixed at seven - unless the Senate decides otherwise - and if every member votes a tie should not be a problem.  A tie is only possible if a Senator is so divided in her mind that she cannot cast a vote either way, or if a Senator cannot make it to the forums before the vote closes.  It is not fair to deprive the Speaker of a vote because another Senator might be indecisive or impunctual.  That is punishing the Speaker for the behavior of another Senator.

Please keep in mind that my argument is based on the assumptions Eluvatar provided.  Reading the Constitution and the Senate Internal Procedures (the latter of which my be for the old Taijitu's Senate, based on references to inducting new members), I can't find anything that says the Speaker breaks ties.

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6. What is the capital of the nation formerly known as Upper Volte?
I'm pretty sure that Burkina Faso's capitol is Ouagadougou.

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7. What is special about the number 7 in NationStates?
Mechanically, in the game?  Gosh, I don't remember.  Is it the number of endorsements you must receive in order to submit WA legislation?


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Offline Eluvatar

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Re: GC for Senator...senatorus...torus...mmm, doughnuts
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2010, 11:28:59 PM »
1. What is your opinion on the Rejected Realms incident?
As a military case study, the campaign was innovative, though it would only work in special circumstances (when the invading region is large, and when the invading Delegate has a large number of endorsements and high seniority, and when the founder nation is active).  It would be unfair to PoD not to mention that.  However, it was also a case study of backroom scheming, Delegate overreach, and unpardonable lack of transparency, and these are the things which have been and should be remembered.  Incidents like this are why transparency and several levels of oversight - of the Delegate by the Senate and Judiciary, and of at least the Senate by the citizenry - are necessary.

Thank you, your answer is most illuminating. I do not care to argue against it xD

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2. What is your favourite colour? Why?
I am quite fond of maroon.  On one level, I like it because it goes well with my skin tone, and I look nice in it.  As a color, it is solid, but hints at depths of resolve.

Maybe you and Myroria should have a talk about maroon xD

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3. Our new Constitution is longer than our original Constitution. Why? Is the reason good or bad?
I'm not sure what you mean when you say "original Constitution".  The first adopted Constitution of Taijitu's first incarnation?  The last adopted Constitution of Taijitu's first incarnation?  The first draft of the current Constitution?  If you would clarify this so that I might give a better answer, I would be grateful.  Until you do, I will assume you mean the first adopted Constitution of Taijitu's first incarnation, and answer based on that assumption, for the sake of giving an answer.

The current Constitution is the product of far greater experience than the original.  There was the aforementioned Rejected Realms incident, other amendments to the original Constitution that were carried over in some form or another to this one, and some reforms that increased the word count of the Constitution while simplifying procedures or creating new but necessary ones.  This process is not a bad one, and learning through experience and adaptation are necessary.  Constitutions and other documents should strive to be brief and readable, though not at the cost of necessary procedures and protections.

Your assumption was correct. I like your answer, it is a good analysis of costs and benefits.

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4. Why is the Earth an oblate spheroid?
The Earth is an oblate spheroid (it is not an ideal oblate sphereoid: its shape is irregular and is termed a "geoid") because its rotation creates forces that tend to pull mass away from the center of mass at the equator, and towards it at the poles.  I'm sure there are names for these forces, but I'm not going to bother my physicist roommate in Baltimore about it at 7 at night when he's enjoying himself.

They key term is centripetal force, known as it is perceived by laymen as centrifugal.
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5. If the Speaker is a Senator and the Speaker has the power to break ties, can the speaker vote normally, and then resolve a tie if it occurred?
The Speaker is a Senator before she is elected Speaker by the other Senators.  As such, she has gained, before gaining the Speakership, all the rights of any Senator, including the right to vote on pending legislation.  In being elected Speaker, the Senators do not take away that right, nor does she give it up by seeking the position: the Speaker is merely a Senator with extra responsiblities towards her fellow Senators, not a Senator with fewer rights than those granted to her by those citizens who voted for her.  To remove her vote on pending legislation is to disenfranchise those who put her into office, and nobody wants that.  Furthermore, though a tie is a possible consequence of a Senate vote, it is only possible if not every Senator is able or willing to cast a vote.  The number of Senators is fixed at seven - unless the Senate decides otherwise - and if every member votes a tie should not be a problem.  A tie is only possible if a Senator is so divided in her mind that she cannot cast a vote either way, or if a Senator cannot make it to the forums before the vote closes.  It is not fair to deprive the Speaker of a vote because another Senator might be indecisive or impunctual.  That is punishing the Speaker for the behavior of another Senator.

Please keep in mind that my argument is based on the assumptions Eluvatar provided.  Reading the Constitution and the Senate Internal Procedures (the latter of which my be for the old Taijitu's Senate, based on references to inducting new members), I can't find anything that says the Speaker breaks ties.

I would say that we currently have no procedures. When we adopt procedures, we should however find some way of breaking ties <_<

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6. What is the capital of the nation formerly known as Upper Volte?
I'm pretty sure that Burkina Faso's capitol is Ouagadougou.

Indeed. :)

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7. What is special about the number 7 in NationStates?
Mechanically, in the game?  Gosh, I don't remember.  Is it the number of endorsements you must receive in order to submit WA legislation?

That would be 2. I don't expect you to answer this, I'll save it up until somebody does :3
                                 
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Offline Zimmerwald

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Re: GC for Senator...senatorus...torus...mmm, doughnuts
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2010, 11:55:08 PM »
Maybe you and Myroria should have a talk about maroon xD
We have.  I prefer a redder maroon than he does.  Too deep, and it becomes indistinguishable from brown or black at a distance.

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Your assumption was correct. I like your answer, it is a good analysis of costs and benefits.
I am relieved that I won't have to modify it to suit a different assumption. :)

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They key term is centripetal force, known as it is perceived by laymen as centrifugal.
*scribbles* Thankee.

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I would say that we currently have no procedures. When we adopt procedures, we should however find some way of breaking ties <_<
Indeed.  Though perhaps a general code of laws deserves greater attention early on than internal Senate procedures, particularly as the Constitution provides the Speaker with enough power to keep things running if there is a gap in the procedures.

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That would be 2. I don't expect you to answer this, I'll save it up until somebody does :3
I know that our current Delegate terms are structured around this game mechanic...do endorsements get updated or refreshed every seven weeks?  Or does something else endorsement-related occur at such an interval?
« Last Edit: June 22, 2010, 12:09:38 AM by Gallipoli-China »


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Offline Eluvatar

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Re: GC for Senator...senatorus...torus...mmm, doughnuts
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2010, 11:58:34 PM »
It's not any mechanic, it's a mystical number :P

The question is what's mystical about it.
                                 
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Offline Gulliver

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Re: GC for Senator...senatorus...torus...mmm, doughnuts
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2010, 12:50:11 AM »
Do you consider giving the Speaker the power to break legislative ties, in addition to their normal vote as a senator, constitutional or unconstitutional? Explain.

Am I still a justice, or do I have to be re-nominated and re-confirmed? Chief justice?

Offline Zimmerwald

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Re: GC for Senator...senatorus...torus...mmm, doughnuts
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2010, 01:06:02 AM »
Do you consider giving the Speaker the power to break legislative ties, in addition to their normal vote as a senator, constitutional or unconstitutional? Explain.
I consider it constitutional.  The Constitution says nothing on the subject of tie-breaking, and until it does, under the Constitution, the Senate is allowed to create its own procedures however it wishes.  If the Senate says that the Speaker can break ties, then the Speaker can break ties unless and until the Senate says otherwise, by amending either its procedures or the Constitution.

That said, it would not necessarily be correct to give the Speaker the power to break ties, in addition to casting a normal vote as a Senator.  I have already given my views on the injustice of taking away the Speaker's normal vote as a Senator based on her role as Speaker.  However, it is also unjust to give the Speaker two votes in special circumstances.  Even if the other Senators have invested the Speaker with this power, and trust her with it, that trust may be abused.  The best solution, in my opinion, is to give the tie-breaking power to someone with no normal role in the legislative process, but with a concern for the law and its application.  This could mean either the Delegate, the Vice Delegate, one of the Ministers, the Chief Justice, another Justice, a Citizen, or a new, yet-to-be-created position.  I'm loath to give the Delegate power in the formation of laws greater than the Veto, Ministers' labors are divided and they might have no concerns or expertise outside their specialty, Citizens might or might not care about the outcome or know what is best.

It might be best to convene the Chief Justice, Speaker, and Vice Delegate and have them decide together how a tie should be broken.  That means each branch is represented in the tie-breaking process, at least, though there are other objections.  Another option is to give the tie-breaking power to a Senator by lot for a given vote, or a given period of time.

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Am I still a justice, or do I have to be re-nominated and re-confirmed? Chief justice?
The old Constitution lapsed, and no positions have yet been filled under the new Constitution.  In my opinion, you are not Chief Justice, and will not be until whoever's elected Delegate inevitably appoints you to the position.


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Offline Gulliver

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Re: GC for Senator...senatorus...torus...mmm, doughnuts
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2010, 01:12:55 AM »
Since I am not Chief Justice yet, does my possession of a Chief Justice user tag constitute the impersonation of a government official?

On a related note, if a citizen does something which is popularly held to be wrong, and is not explicitly constitutionally protected, but no formal law against the act exists, is it acceptable for the judiciary to use their discretionary power in the matter to set a precedent and establish some manner of common law?

Offline Zimmerwald

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Re: GC for Senator...senatorus...torus...mmm, doughnuts
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2010, 01:23:20 AM »
Since I am not Chief Justice yet, does my possession of a Chief Justice user tag constitute the impersonation of a government official?
Depends.  Do you have access to forum permissions?  If you do, and can unmask yourself, then it probably does constitute impersonation, or probably would if Taijitu had a Criminal Code that was valid under this Constitution.  If you don't, then whoever does probably has more important things to do with it than unmask you.

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On a related note, if a citizen does something which is popularly held to be wrong, and is not explicitly constitutionally protected, but no formal law against the act exists, is it acceptable for the judiciary to use their discretionary power in the matter to set a precedent and establish some manner of common law?
I believe this is regulated by Article 4, Section 1, Clause 2 of the Constitution: "The Court will arbitrate disputes relevant to Taijitu between any citizens seeking arbitration."  If a citizen brings a complaint against another before the Court, even though neither may have committed a legal crime, the Court may then resolve their dispute and use their case to create precedent for common law.  However, this is predicated on one of the citizens involved bringing a complaint against the other before the Court: I do not believe it right for the Court to act on its own in such matters.


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Offline Wast

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Re: GC for Senator...senatorus...torus...mmm, doughnuts
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2010, 05:29:03 AM »
1. How will you encourage community activity in Taijitu?

2. What do you envision the future of Taijitu to be? Comment on steps you may take to achieve this vision.

3. What constitutes art, in your definition?

4. Wittgenstein begins On Certainty with the following implicit criticism of G.E. Moore:
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1. If you do know that here is one hand, we'll grant you all the rest.
When one says that such and such a proposition can't be proved, of course that does not mean that it can't be derived from other propositions; any proposition can be derived from other ones. But they may be no more certain than it is itself.
Discuss this approach to epistemology and its implications for skepticism.

5. Suppose Wast places two different, finite, amounts of money in two otherwise indistinguishable envelopes. You may choose an envelope, open it and observe its contents. Then you may either take this money or exchange it with the contents of the other envelope, which you then must keep. No creative action outside the bounds of the description is allowed. Consider the naive strategy of accepting the contents of the first envelope always. Is there a strategy to obtain an expected winnings greater than that of this naive strategy, and if so, what is it?
« Last Edit: June 22, 2010, 05:31:34 AM by Wast »

Offline Zimmerwald

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Re: GC for Senator...senatorus...torus...mmm, doughnuts
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2010, 02:30:56 PM »
I'm on my phone at the moment, and thus can't reply exhaustively to wast's poat.  I can, however, reply to elu's earlier question.  Seven is the number of feeder regions.  The pacifics, rejected realms, and lazarus.


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Offline Khem

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Re: GC for Senator...senatorus...torus...mmm, doughnuts
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2010, 03:34:21 PM »
what do you plan to acccomplish as a senator?
did you notice my spelling error?
what is your level of love for me? for taijitu?
quote some venture brothers for me.
coffee or tea?
favorite color? three words describing that color.
favorite animal? three words describing that color.
a type of body of water? three words describing that body of water type.
three words describing how you would feel being trapped in an all white room with a bright light in the center.
which senators are intelligent?
what proposals will you make as a senator?
what are the best chemicals?
What have you done for Taijitu?
What is your favorite part of Taijitu?
Are there any improvements you would like to make to Taijitu?
Why did you chose your particular avatar?

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Offline Zimmerwald

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Re: GC for Senator...senatorus...torus...mmm, doughnuts
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2010, 06:58:39 AM »
1. How will you encourage community activity in Taijitu?
I think it best to lead by example in this area, by being an active participant in various areas of the community myself.  Of course, not everyone can be everywhere, so I will encourage other Senators to do the same.  I will also promote the use of both the old and new IRC channels (though the new one's my preference).

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2. What do you envision the future of Taijitu to be? Comment on steps you may take to achieve this vision.


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3. What constitutes art, in your definition?
Art is that which appeals to the observer on aesthetic and intellectual levels, which has a special significance to the observer, and which cannot be defined.  Now, which clause or clauses of the sentence were complete bunk?

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4. Wittgenstein begins On Certainty with the following implicit criticism of G.E. Moore:
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1. If you do know that here is one hand, we'll grant you all the rest.
When one says that such and such a proposition can't be proved, of course that does not mean that it can't be derived from other propositions; any proposition can be derived from other ones. But they may be no more certain than it is itself.
Discuss this approach to epistemology and its implications for skepticism.
I have not read On Certainty, and do not feel equipped to discuss the quote without this necessary background.

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5. Suppose Wast places two different, finite, amounts of money in two otherwise indistinguishable envelopes. You may choose an envelope, open it and observe its contents. Then you may either take this money or exchange it with the contents of the other envelope, which you then must keep. No creative action outside the bounds of the description is allowed. Consider the naive strategy of accepting the contents of the first envelope always. Is there a strategy to obtain an expected winnings greater than that of this naive strategy, and if so, what is it?
Is this exercise iterated or not?  The original description seems to indicate a singular exercise, but the fifth sentence implies otherwise.

what do you plan to acccomplish as a senator?
I would like to see the Senate be a vital part of the region's government, not simply a place which very occasionally vomits legislation.

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did you notice my spelling error?
Are you referring to "acccomplish" or some other spelling error?  Because I'm pretty sure "acccomplish" was deliberate.  Did you notice mine?

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what is your level of love for me? for taijitu?
Niel walks in to a room, and you know he's uncommonly rare, very unique, peripatetic, poetic, and chic.  As for Taijitu, if it were locked up in a mid-nineteenth-century asylum, the very stones outside would be my pillow, and the cheerless rain my only succor, until we were again together.

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quote some venture brothers for me.
Hey, guess what? Nobody cares who would win in a crazy fantasy fist-fight between Anne Frank and Lizzie Borden.

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coffee or tea?
Tea.  Earl Gray.  Hot.

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favorite color? three words describing that color.
Again, huh?  Maroon.  Solid, depths, rust.

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favorite animal? three words describing that color.
Penguin.  Slippery, committed, crowding.

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a type of body of water? three words describing that body of water type.
Sound.  Narrow, bounded, tidal.

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three words describing how you would feel being trapped in an all white room with a bright light in the center.
Overwhelmed, blinded, light-absorbant.

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which senators are intelligent?
There are no senators at the moment, so anybody I might mention would be a hyperintelligent energy being.

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what proposals will you make as a senator?
At first, I'd probably amend other folks' proposals, since they've already planned to introduce several important bills, and I wouldn't want to introduce such things a second time, or overload the Senate with too much at once.  After that...we'll see what needs doing.  I might propose procedures for regular, as opposed to spontaneous, oversight of the Executive.

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what are the best chemicals?
Polyvinyl chloride is nice.  WD-40's a useful mixture of chemicals.  Water, of course, is always good to have.

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What have you done for Taijitu?
I made political Redness acceptable :-P

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What is your favorite part of Taijitu?
The folks, closely followed by the stories they write, closely followed by the maps a few draw.

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Are there any improvements you would like to make to Taijitu?
Not at the moment, no.  I'm sure some will come to me when it's not 3 in the morning.

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Why did you chose your particular avatar?
Because I like calling myself "Demon Barber of [forum/community]".


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Offline Khem

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Re: GC for Senator...senatorus...torus...mmm, doughnuts
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2010, 02:20:03 AM »
well done sir as usual statesman and a scholar. so rare these days.

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