Boyengrado Convention

[Pachamama]

Can you please be more clear; does this apply to civilians only or civilians AND combatants? During times of war, we would not sit well with an organization healing and protecting the enemy combatants so that they could return to the field to fight us and kill more of our own people.

OOC This isn`t Hollywood. We are talking real wars here. The people we get off the battlefield are in a live or die situation.
Most of them will NEVER be able to return to combat even if we save their lives. I would like for you to get the shit out of your head and check some real combat wounds.

[Osamafune]

ooc What about that guy, Mullah Omar or something like it, that lost his leg in the Afghan-Soviet War and continued on to the lead the Taliban?

Actually, we killed Omar.

Somebody's taking this too seriously. This is RPing, not real life ( ).

Besides, don't you think each side would be more than capable of taking care of their own soldiers? This is why I presonally don't see this working in real life. Ic, I decided to go a different route.

They say that, but everyone still seems to have uber large militaries. I was comparing Xyrael's and the US's navies and Xyrael's is more than twice as big! Did you see Oz's before the map change? 

And isn't it realistic for an army to be able to care for it's own soldiers? I can see the need for this for civilians, but not soldiers. Not ic or ooc.

Anyway, maybe we should condense all of this into like one post or something? We kinda got off track here

[Pachamama]

Oh yeah he "leads" them. From a VERY save place. Hiding his ass in his HQ some were very save.
I will try and come up with some people and you can tell me how long it will take them to go for the Olympics. Paralympics that is.
I`ve seen pictures from medical records off soldiers that were wounded in Afghanistan and Iraq and I guarantee you these guys ain`t going nowhere .
Also in most cases it will take weeks if not even month for them to recover. From physical harm. Not to talk about shell shock and other mental injuries. And while you are looking up that Omar guy check his hospital time and rehab.


http://www.brooksidepress.org/Products/OperationalMedicine/DATA/operationalmed/MilitaryMedicine/MilitaryMedicine.htm

here is a bit of general info for everyone.

[Pachamama]

Sorry, sorry nerves a bit on edge. Didn´t want to get mean at you.(Must be my Real Life country going from democracy to dictatorship that makes me overreact)
Back to what I wanted to say.
We are not healing soldiers to return to the front we are removing them from the front for a long time as they will need weeks and months to recover and may not be combat ready after wards for years or ever again. But at least we save their lives.
Also people here continue to talk about how close to real live we should keep our militarys and and I think we may as well keep it real with the injuries as well.
Soldiers here ain`t going to respawn like in computer games or are up and running just because a medic is close by.

[Pachamama]

I agree Osafune.back on track before Delfos makes us need medical attention.

[Delfos]

As it stands now, the Collosean Federation refuses to comply.

Can you please be more clear; does this apply to civilians only or civilians AND combatants? During times of war, we would not sit well with an organization healing and protecting the enemy combatants so that they could return to the field to fight us and kill more of our own people.

Even if this only applied to civilians, we still have a problem with this line:
"* there should be fire seize after intense fighting for a couple of hours to let the White Hearts evacuate the dead."
We refuse to allow the enemy the chance to regroup during a battle. Battles never last forever, the White Hearts could enter AFTER it's over, but not during.


A problem we forsee is that in asymetrical warfare, where insurgents and rebels don't where uniforms and mesh with the civilian population, enemy combatants could be mistaken for a civilians. This however is something we could look over, if the other complaint is responded to.

- Philonexus II, Foreign Minister of the Collosean Federation.

Any person, civilian or combatant, islamic or catholic, black or white, we don't care, any person injured in reach of we can help will be offered the White Heart help. Note that line you referenced is a suggestion, "*there should be", so the insurgent matter is more than answered, if we can help them sure, why not. They are people like you and me. This is a respect of neutrality, if we enter the battlefield to evacuate the wounded and dead we hope we don't get shot at, and all security shall be offered to the wounded and dead. In the case you present, we would evacuate them to an hospital ship or White Heart campaign area, we don't send anyone back, if they are fully healed they will be discharged, if they are dead they will be preserved and the families will be contacted. If you respect human lives and humanitarian help, there shouldn't be any problem with this treaty.
In case of disrespect of the White Hearts and any get killed in combat, the killer in question will be charged with assassination of a citizen in humanitarian relief, and soldier or army will have to face the justice of the nationality of the dead one. But be sure there won't be any campaign while the fight lasts, it's a matter of respect, if you don't respect it's your problem.

ooc: off track? the 1st post in the convention post, there will be more issues to attend.

ic: President of New Delfos: "Launching an issue: Rules of Engagement. Giving a sequence tot he Safe Waters Treaty, that only apply to waters, we are hoping we can extend it to land and air, specially air where there was an incident few years ago with delfian jets needing of an emergency landing and were both destroyed before reaching an airfield. I would like to know who are the nations interested in a ROE treaty to prevent this incidents to happen. Also would like to know anyone's opinion, even the ones against it, to make sure we can get a nice ROE treaty with most of the people agreeing on. Shall we start to draft any points?

-Any individual/small number of military/civilian vessel(s), in distress shall be not stricken, aid shall be given or refused, unless the vessel in question doesn't support alternatives and has to land on the closest available airfield.

[Rock Briken]

OCC:points to his earlier post.

[Xyrael]

ooc:
United States Active Navy I have way more frigates, and way fewer cruisers, and older + cheaper subs.

I'll lower my navy, but realize that my military budget has a lot more allocated to it than the US Navy, as I do not have 3,000+ fighters like the US Air Force, nor do I have expensive long range bombers. And also this list is post Cold War. I'd prefer any comments sent in PM rather than accusational on some thread I'm not involved in.

Anyways, ic:

The Empire of Xyrael will not permit any White Heart Organization members within her borders or those of her colonies, and will not sign onto this treaty. The Empire views this treaty as a threat to war time actions taken by Xyrael, but the Empire of Xyrael may review this decision at a later date. The Empire of Xyrael views the White Hearts Organization as a NGO which seeks to undermine national sovereignty and manhandle the world community into southernized conformity, and feels that nations should only rely upon international aid when they can not assist their people themselves. Such an organization will only allow leaders to become more lax in the defense of their civilians in war time, and will lead into near complete reliance on White Hearts and other such groups. The people expect their government, not an international body, to be responsible for their safety.

ooc2: note, instead of east-west animosity it'll be north-south, just look at the map!

[Union]

ooc: ^ warmonger...

[Pachamama]

To assist any nation in natural or man made disasters that can not be handled by that nation alone.
The organization will only grant support and assistance but will not fully carry the load of disaster relief and reconstruction.
We will also assist nations in creating and organizing their own governmental or NGO disaster relief organizations specific to their requirements.

This should make it clear that the IHAO`s intention is to help only those nations that find themselves facing a disaster of such magnitude they cannot handle it alone and thus ask the IHAO for assistance.
Naturally we would cooperate with the White Heart in such disasters.
Otherwise we will support White Heart operations were they are in need for personal, equipment and supplies.

[Union]

ooc: White Hearts a private organization, right?

[Delfos]

ooc:private and independent organization yes, most of the active members are delfians, as delfian citizens, so care if you hurt them. But I'm expecting other nationality members, would love to have few myrorians and xyraelits working in the White Heart. It relies on donations...practically the taijitan Red Cross. People are hitting my "help them emerge" suggestions in the treaty, any war time situation is exclusive to suggestion, the white hearts will never go into battlefield ever unless they are called upon or suggested to. And there will be notification or request to the belligerent parties. Any more questions? How about starting to comment the ROE draft?

[Pachamama]

We wish for the White Heart to open a office in our country and will support you with 20 people with expertise in the analysis and survey of POW camps.
Our specialist Dr. Berenir M.D. will head this group and work with you.

ooc sorry for the misunderstanding.
There is no POW camp in Terrangar as we are not at war with anyone, not even ourselves. It means that I will send you these people to help you in your work elsewhere because they have already done the same job for the former DRO.
Your office in my country would serve as a base for your organizations work in the general area, to reduce reaction time and for easier communication between our government and your organization.
Also I am not clear yet if the IHAO and White Hearts should become one organization or remain  two independent organizations that support each other closely.
I am fine with both ideas. I just want to know so I can better understand how this will work out.

IC
So far the following should be cleared.
The nation of Terrangar gives the White Heart permission to recruit people trough their office in our nation and collect donations.
We will give the WH the status of a tax free organization. All private donations can be deducted from tax. However we ask that your organization provides a printed yearly report on it`s spending and provides receipts to contributors.
Also we would like for you to train your people in our medical schools and create facilities in our country for training and storage.
You may use our hospitals or build your own in our country as long as you will also give Terrangan people medical aid in those hospitals.
We would like a close cooperation between your organization and our medical system so we can learn from each other.

[Delfos]

Tomás de Noronha, President and Founder of White Heart Org. "We shall remain independent, and sure we will work with any other humanitarian relief organization. The recruitment is free to anybody, and we also provide medical education, most of the current members were doctors and medics in national social service, others came form the delfian Red Hearts, which is a semi-military service. Thanks for the support and we shall amend our working sheet."

[Aquatoria]

The door opened to the convention and the other diplomats saw a tired-looking Canadian diplomat walk in. He took a seat then looked at the others. "I'm sorry for arriving late, but the war in Canada has forced many problems in my country. I am Walter Crawford, the new Canadian representative to this convention. I brought this. The Canadian Air Fleet is willing to give the White Hearts 25 Hercules transport planes to travel medical and other equipment to areas to anywhere the White hearts wish. But we can't give them to you now, because the Canadian government is pressing everything and just about anyone into service to defend our country."