Proposal 1

[kor]

I dont particularly like the 4 week election cycle. It seems rather brief.

[Bustos]

Good point.  How much can be accomplished in a month when we (well some of us) have real lives?

[Eluvatar]

I was originally for a 7 week delegacy.

A four week cycle would not be dysfunctional though. The Delegate just might not be opposed every time.

[Poliz]

A few things I noticed right away:

   

Any citizen who has held their citizenship continuously for at least four weeks and has registered on the official regional forums may run for the office of senator.

I've never liked the idea of preventing people from running until they have been in a region x ammount of time. It de facto creates a second class citizen and limits democracy. We should trust voters to know when a member isn't experienced enough or isn't suitable.

I agree entirely.

In fact, why should the Delegate appoint the ministers, why can't the people be trusted to elect them ourselves? And why do we need a Senate? The only balance of power that's really needed is between the rulers and those who rule; why not just throw off that cumbersome layer of self-appointed, self-important bourgeoisie altogether and let the people of Taijitu truly govern themselves?

If the Senate is to exist, then there should be appropriate protection for the People against them. I propose the creation of two elected offices, independent of the three branches and with the power of veto. Firstly, the Tribune of the People, should have the ability to exercise a veto against Senatorial and judicial decisions, and can propose laws for voting directly to the People. There should be two of these, and a Tribune may veto their colleague's veto if they believe it violates Citizens.
Similarly, I believe there should be a Military Tribune, who has veto power with regards to military decisions. However, if any Citizen holds these positions, then they cannot run for Senate elections for two Delegate election cycles.
All these quasi-democratic systems in the world are lies. Direct Democracy is the only strain of real Democracy, no matter what it behind masquerades today.

[St Oz]

We can't have the people choosing the ministers because several of them require specializations, and delegates can use this for their campaigns, giving out a list of who they would select. Therefore someone who is a mean son of a bitch as Minister of Foreign Affairs wouldn't bode lightly to the electorate. Instead the candidate would choose someone they trust would spread friendship among the other regions.

Plus election day would be crazy, we'd be voting for so many people

[Gulliver]

In fact, why should the Delegate appoint the ministers, why can't the people be trusted to elect them ourselves

Because then there's no effective central authority to direct the work of the government.

And why do we need a Senate? The only balance of power that's really needed is between the rulers and those who rule; why not just throw off that cumbersome layer of self-appointed, self-important bourgeoisie altogether and let the people of Taijitu truly govern themselves?

The Senate isn't self appointed, it's elected.

If the Senate is to exist, then there should be appropriate protection for the People against them.

I think they're called elections, referendums, the Delegate, Court and Constitution.

Firstly, the Tribune of the People, should have the ability to exercise a veto against Senatorial and judicial decisions, and can propose laws for voting directly to the People.

Did you even read the entire proposal? There's entire sections dedicated to petitions and referendums which effectively do exactly what you're describing.

All these quasi-democratic systems in the world are lies. Direct Democracy is the only strain of real Democracy, no matter what it behind masquerades today.

Because no system of checks and balances and tyranny by majority are such fun.

[Eluvatar]

The purpose of the Senate in this proposal is to have an active and legislature which can be trusted with sensitive information which can impose an real popular check on the will of the delegate.

[Myroria]

why not just throw off that cumbersome layer of self-appointed, self-important bourgeoisie altogether and let the people of Taijitu truly govern themselves?

Because people, in general, are stupid. The reason there is no true direct democracy in existence is because few people are knowledgeable about government, and cannot effectively govern themselves. We need a Senate because people who run for Senate are usually aware on how to make effective laws, and those who run and aren't aware of how to do that simply aren't elected.

I propose the creation of two elected offices, independent of the three branches and with the power of veto. Firstly, the Tribune of the People, should have the ability to exercise a veto against Senatorial and judicial decisions, and can propose laws for voting directly to the People. There should be two of these, and a Tribune may veto their colleague's veto if they believe it violates Citizens.

As my illustrious colleague said, there are referendums and people's vetoes and other systems that are very effective at preventing tyranny by the delegate.

Similarly, I believe there should be a Military Tribune, who has veto power with regards to military decisions.

Civilian control of the military

First of all, the military should not have political power. Ever. Ever.

Let me pose a situation to you.

Taijitu has traditionally been a neutral region. Let's assume for a second that the military leadership edges towards supporting invaders. And let's suppose they decide to invade a region on trumped-up charges, which the majority of Taijitu people do not support, however, the military has a large and vocal minority supporting its actions.

Under your proposal, there would be a Military Tribune to evaluate these sorts of decisions. A tribune which could more than easily be filled with people who support the military's decision. This would not accurately represent the wants and needs of the people, as you imply it would.

However, under the current proposal in the Constitution, a referendum could easily be made, which everyone in the region could easily vote in. Which would more accurately represent the wishes of the populace at large?

All these quasi-democratic systems in the world are lies. Direct Democracy is the only strain of real Democracy, no matter what it behind masquerades today.

Someone may disagree with that statement, but under your system they wouldn't be allowed to.

[HEM]

There has to be a small government with few election as possible to breed an active atmosphere. If you hold elections for Ministers the whole system is apt to go stale and you will find people settling in cozy positions and doing mediocre jobs because nobody really wants to challenge someone for the Minister of Widgets job.

The Delegate must have authority over his Cabinet, which means appointing them and removing them if need be.

[Eluvatar]

HEM brings up an extremely important point, that Ministers should be removable very easily so they are better motivated.

[Zimmerwald]

As someone brought up before, four weeks isn't really that long an election cycle, and situations where something such as this would be required would be rare, but I do think it important to have a provision in the Constitution that allows for the recall of any elected official.  Perhaps use the same rules for petitions and referenda, or even modify the existing section 4 slightly to include recalls.

[Eluvatar]

I'd like to grant the Senate the power to regulate military activity and to declare war?

[Zimmerwald]

Giving the Senate the power to declare war is fine, and making the peace is already in the purview of the Senate because it is empowered to make treaties.  What is meant by "regulate military activity"?

[Eluvatar]

Well, what does declaring war mean if the Delegate can just deploy the Army?

[Zimmerwald]

Very little, but I wasn't being snarky: "regulate" can mean any number of things, and you already know my penchant for precision.  Even if it's not inserted into the Constitution, deliberations here and on IRC (if folks who, unlike me, know how to log) can provide useful historical and legal references.