Daily Poll: Poor People

[bigbaldben]

VOTE DAMMIT.

[Allama]

Though I grew up poor and stayed that way for much of my 20's, I've recently clawed my way into the lower-middle class (at best) or upper low class (at worst).

It's pretty great not to worry about running out of food and starving. That's an understatement.

[Delfos]

Yeah well, I always had things to eat but I've had to have "rice with rice" (maybe with a bit of garlic to give a little taste), I even added ketchup once to my rice just to have a bit of different taste.

Things aren't horrible atm but I'm in risk of returning to "nothing to add to rice" state if I don't emigrate or get a proper job. As you can imagine, in a country where minimum wage is 500 euros, I often get less than that if you count the whole year with part-time, temporary or ill paid jobs.

[Lindisfarne]

Yes, I'm not that well off. Having said that, I manage pretty well as I am living with my parents and they don't want me to pay anyting for my staying with them. (I do pay for food and such from time to time, but no rent)

I have a pretty well paying job now, but I do work my pretty a** off for it. I hope to save a buffer for later, but if I'm going to uni, that will disappear...

Will I, one day, be well off?  I have no idea... The way European politics are going I am afraid things are going to get worse before thay get better. (if ever)

[Delfos]

a bunch of university-aged-people just joined the armed forces bc of financial problems...we're poorer but we're somehow raising the military budget...oh...

[St Oz]

earlier this week, I thought I was going to be poor-lower middle class with this new job. I also grew up upper poor-lower middle class, it's difficult to tell because a family member has a lifetime disability and the medical bills ate up about 50% of what my family made (4 bist kwalitee murica helthcar tho, gad bliss yoo ess ayy)

But then I recently found out what they make after probationary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ON-7v4qnHP8

 

MIDDLE CLASS BABY

But you know, I wish it was more along the lines of what I wanted to do.

It's also not an american dream story or pulling up by my bootstraps or reaping the harvest of my very expensive piece of paper. I was just born a lucky lower-middle class white male asshole. And you remember that if you have a penis and white skin. You don't nearly have to try as hard as anyone else on this earth.

Also you have to try to be a poor European (or a refugee, a yuck a yuck a yuck) Delfos

[Khem]

I'm about as poor as one can get while maintaining a functional presence in civilization yet I don't really desire monetary reward in my life. I doubt my situation will ever really change.

[Delfos]

Also you have to try to be a poor European (or a refugee, a yuck a yuck a yuck) Delfos

I don't understand, I'm pretty sure I made it clear that I am poor most of the time, if I survive under a roof I have to thank the help of my mother. I wouldn't be able to afford being here at all, as it happens with a lot of friends my age.
I also totally do not understand your refugee reference, are you saying I can't protest about my social-economic condition because there are people in worse conditions than me?

[St Oz]

I was joking that Europeans generally have a higher social net than we do. Unless you're a wandering refugee in Europe, then yeah you're poor.

[Delfos]

I was joking that Europeans generally have a higher social net than we do. Unless you're a wandering refugee in Europe, then yeah you're poor.

Maybe Central european/northern european countries have higher social net, the minimum wage here is lower than 600 €, I thought i was funny an interview to a refugee he said he went to Iraq first but he was only make 20 USD per day so he decided to walk to europe, here we don't make that much more to justify walking all over from Iraq to Portugal (for example) lol, we want to leave Portugal, it doesn't respect working conditions or rights, in that regard even the capitalism champion US is better in some zones.

[St Oz]

I was joking that Europeans generally have a higher social net than we do. Unless you're a wandering refugee in Europe, then yeah you're poor.

Maybe Central european/northern european countries have higher social net, the minimum wage here is lower than 600 €, I thought i was funny an interview to a refugee he said he went to Iraq first but he was only make 20 USD per day so he decided to walk to europe, here we don't make that much more to justify walking all over from Iraq to Portugal (for example) lol, we want to leave Portugal, it doesn't respect working conditions or rights, in that regard even the capitalism champion US is better in some zones.

I don't know too much about the social floors in Portugal, what they consider the poverty line, or what they offer to people. I only have a vague idea of what they do and do not offer here. I think that the minimum wages are around the same when you consider the purchasing power parity. Its probably roughly the same or off by about plus or minus 2 dollars. But when you compare that to Iraq or Syria it must be astronomical in difference, I can't imagine their "20 dollars a day" is equivalent to what a European or American can buy. I can't imagine that for a second because in theory Iraq could then build itself out of the third world with majestic power of the similar minimum wages as developed world countries. Sure the 600 euros seems much smaller than our 7.25 an hour doing the simple math of multiplying that to hours worked in a month then converting it to your currency seems easy enough to compare, but it isn't that simple, and poverty isn't a simple number of dollars to calculate. There are factors of health, security, law and order, money markets fluctuating, food, shelter, education, etc. Many minimum wage Americans might make more than the Portuguese minimum wages but it doesn't change the fact that they live in some of the most violent cities, with the crappiest education, and healthcare well beyond their scope of earnings.

[Delfos]

The trick is to try to achieve better conditions, basic economy inflation should help with that as well if the wages were raised in parallel, similar to the US we have mega inflation with no raise of wages. You can't do too much of parallel comparison with either of those countries because commodities/services are different and are valued different, even then it may not be fair to compare directly, yet I can give you some of the insights I got from being in both places. For instance, Gasoline is 3 times more expensive here than the US, this affects mobility a lot specially if you consider we make a lot less money. For instance electricity is more expensive here than the US, if you compare with any purchasing power it makes electricity very expensive here in comparison, Telecommunications seem to be similar prices but again the US makes a lot more, sometimes I noticed there are better services as in options in the US but then the service in Portugal is far better in terms of range (there are virtually no range gaps) and speed (there's fiber in all cities atm, my city isn't that large and my network is fiber). This options thing was constant, there's sometimes way too many options in the US, in Portugal there's less but apparently not less or terrible quality. Again the only place I had to compare was SouthEastern South Dakota, water was "free" there as well and I get why it'd be given away, there's way too much of it, freaking defrosting makes everything damp and small floodings occur, while in Portugal Water is an expense like natural gas - oh we have Iberian natural gas tubbed network, In South Dakota nobody used gas stoves/heaters. Also not all Portugal is like the way where I live, even employment conditions differ from region to region, there's places where the water is cheaper, there's places where the water is more expensive.

Yes I can imagine it being more difficult in Iraq, and he did say his main reason to leave was war, ISIS, but here some stupid people say they come here to take our jobs...and we have to pay for their stay. Well they not only have every right to take refuge in other countries, the refugee programs are temporary (although some war zones have been taking a lot of time to solve), and most of the money to help refugees come from UN and some from EU, the only money spent here is as much necessary to guarantee each local municipalities are doing their responsibilities towards refugees. Most refugees in Portugal say life is terrible, like afghan refugees, they didn't get enough help to learn the language or programs to adapt to the places they were placed, they were promised work and never got it...yeah I know the feeling, work here is terrible, and people are using that argument as well to not wanting refugees here "Oh we have homeless and unemployed, we have no conditions to receive refugees"-I see the easy demagoguery, but this people can't stay in provisory camps and being in risk of being shot by Hungarian far-right-wing military.