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News: Citoyen priority warning: Not reporting counter-revolutionary activities is conspiracy to commit counter-revolution under the Anticivil Activities Act. Penalties go up to and include permanent Ecclesiastical explusion.

Author Topic: Conflict discussion  (Read 4078 times)

Offline Prydania

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Re: #taijitu_tavern [discussion]
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2015, 12:46:51 PM »
The negativity did not explode out of nowhere. Over the last two months, Funkadelia and Myroria have felt increasingly put upon, starting I think with this page in which St Oz said "4) As I said in the other thread, we need native taijituans back in taijitu, stop giving so many shits about other regions especially TNP, and I don't give a shit if you're emperor of buttplugs there" and there was much applause, albeit mostly focused on his 3rd point against blaming leaders for inactivity.

People have felt hostility and isolation. It's not good.
That's an eye opener. I know that a lot of people I've spoken to feel similar. And feel as if Myro and Funk were part of (but certainly not the totality of) an informal system that was hindering their ability to truly be equal partners in this egalitarian democracy. That's what I mean when I say people have felt victimized. They've felt as if they've been put down upon themselves, in part by the actions of Myro and Funk, and it's festered until now.
I wish I could be less vague but understand. This is stuff that I've been told in private communication. So revealing specifics of who has said what is a bit of an issue. I'm unsure who is comfortable having what they've said shared. Much less being tied to it.

There's also a problem with escalating factionalism. And I say that as someone who has been complacent in it. SD posted in the "what is Taijitu thread" upon his return. Funk responded, basically claiming his post was full of nothing but "feel good platitudes."
http://forum.taijitu.org/proposals-and-discussions/what-is-taijitu/msg161738/#msg161738

SD defended himself. And Funk responded that it was "unsurprising" that SD ignored what Funk saw as his main point.
http://forum.taijitu.org/proposals-and-discussions/what-is-taijitu/msg161747/#msg161747

Now here's the thing. I've heard a lot from Funk's friends tell me "my friend is hurt" or "my friend is gone." And I sympathize. Understand though. Your circle is not the only tight-knit circle here. There are people who consider themselves friends beyond your sphere. SD and I are as close as Guilliver and Funk, perhaps closer (I only say that as I'm not sure how close Gulliver and Funk are. I know I consider SD my best friend). And if I see someone ridicule my friend for simply trying to be helpful? I'm going to defend him.
Here's what I find interesting. Funk's friends have said to me "oh I think he's burnt out" and "he's dealing with a lot from a lot of people."
Ok. I understand that. SD though? He was involved in none of that. Funk had no right treating SD as poorly as he did, and I took issue with that.

And I know that's ultimately not helpful. I've said as much. That this factionalism only made things worse. And yet what do you want me to do? Not stand up for my friends out of a sense of civility? Why can't I ask the same for others on the "other" side of the "aisle"? And why is it that so many of my friends would rather lament about the system to me in private then address the issues that bothered them in more constructive forms earlier?

I can think of only one answer to that. The total lack of trust Gulliver mentioned earlier. I'm sorry Gulliver, Elu. For the IRC queries. Those were my way of trying to reach out. To talk "beyond" the forum and hoping to arrive at some sort of understanding that could make things better here. To impart some idea of what "my side" was feeling to help foster some trust. Obviously? It didn't work.
 
I agree. The negativity did not explode out of nowhere. Myro and Funk felt unappreciated. Others felt victimized and put down upon. That there was a failure to have these two sides come together and hash issues out before they got as bad as they got is...sad.
I wish I had answers that went beyond "platitudes" and "sentiments as old as the game itself." At this point though? What more is there to say beyond "try to understand the other side's perspective" and "treat people as people and not as labels"?

Offline Eluvatar

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Re: #taijitu_tavern [discussion]
« Reply #16 on: November 26, 2015, 03:50:25 PM »
When I said "People have felt hostility and isolation," I did not refer exclusively to Myroria and Funkadelia, but to everyone who's felt put upon, on both 'sides' to the extent we have them.

In the exchange you linked to, I suspect Funkadelia felt condescended to. Not going to argue his response wasn't also readable as condescending.
I can think of only one answer to that. The total lack of trust Gulliver mentioned earlier. I'm sorry Gulliver, Elu. For the IRC queries. Those were my way of trying to reach out. To talk "beyond" the forum and hoping to arrive at some sort of understanding that could make things better here. To impart some idea of what "my side" was feeling to help foster some trust. Obviously? It didn't work.
I'm sorry I don't think I quite understand.
                                 
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Offline Prydania

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Re: #taijitu_tavern [discussion]
« Reply #17 on: November 26, 2015, 04:59:04 PM »
When I said "People have felt hostility and isolation," I did not refer exclusively to Myroria and Funkadelia, but to everyone who's felt put upon, on both 'sides' to the extent we have them.
Noted.

Quote
In the exchange you linked to, I suspect Funkadelia felt condescended to. Not going to argue his response wasn't also readable as condescending.
The portion of the exchange I linked to started with SD giving his two cents. Funk responded, without provocation, and reduced SD's position to "feel-good platitudes." How was that constructive?
I bring this up because in conversations I've heard people say "my friends have been called such-and-such."
And I'm just saying that this isn't a case of one side picking on the other. And by no means am I declaring myself innocent. I believe the links I've posted are as condemning to me as they are to Funk.

Quote
I can think of only one answer to that. The total lack of trust Gulliver mentioned earlier. I'm sorry Gulliver, Elu. For the IRC queries. Those were my way of trying to reach out. To talk "beyond" the forum and hoping to arrive at some sort of understanding that could make things better here. To impart some idea of what "my side" was feeling to help foster some trust. Obviously? It didn't work.
I'm sorry I don't think I quite understand.
That attempts on my end to reach out to Gulliver and yourself on my part via IRC were done to try and "bridge the divide."
Sorry it didn't work.

Offline Eluvatar

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Re: #taijitu_tavern [discussion]
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2015, 05:37:45 PM »
Okay. I thought you might be saying you were sorry for trying, but that didn't seem to make much sense.
                                 
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Offline Prydania

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Re: #taijitu_tavern [discussion]
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2015, 06:15:03 PM »
Nah, I'm never sorry for trying :)