Stance in the Nationstates Gameplay world

[Prydania]

Yep. I'm not opposed to proactive action against those who have harmed us. Mess with the bull? You get the horns.
The NS Taijitu Region is just our outlet on the NS site. This forum, and the IRC channels? Those are what I consider to be "Taijitu." We could reorganize on NS easily enough. As could any NS community worth saving.
If a Raider incursion is all it takes to tear down a community and render it destroyed? Even one that's ten years old? Well neither the world or NS game is probably out much anyway.

My stance?
Taijitu shouldn't Raid because I don't believe we should harass those who have done nothing to us.
Taijitu should abandon "sovereigntism" for the same reason.
Taijitu should engage in military operations, both defensive and offensive, if it's in the interest of Taijitu's security. Attacking Raiders who have never even paid us any mind doesn't qualify.

[Gulliver]

I am having trouble finding words to express how disappointed and, frankly, kind of hurt I am by how this conversation has progressed. I know we don't agree on a lot and aren't anything like bestest-best-friends-forever, but I had though we were on amiable enough terms to afford each other a modicum of basic respect and civility.

A proposal was made about military policy was made. I disagreed with the proposal and calmly stated the reasons why. In return I was insulted and accused of being high and mighty and smug without provocation on my part.

This is just a game, and I'm perfectly aware of that. I don't have any illusions that raiding is somehow a crime on par with real life invasion. That would be ridiculous. But within the scope of this political simulation, I choose to be on the side that opposes it, and all I've done are stated my reasons and arguments for being on that side. It's not different than when we debate the merits of other laws and policies for our simulated government which ultimately has no real life consequence.

If you disagree with them and I can't convince you otherwise, that's fine. That's politics and part of the game. But if my position and the reasons for it upset you so much that you feel the need to immediately dismiss and insult me simply for stating them, then you may be the one who needs to reevaluate how seriously you're taking this.

Again, this is just a game, I play it to have fun. If this community has decided that my contributions to the region mean so little that it's okay to respond to my positions in legislative debates with cheap insults (which certainly seems to be the case right now), then I don't see much reason in sticking around.

[Prydania]

I am having trouble finding words to express how disappointed and, frankly, kind of hurt I am by how this conversation has progressed. I know we don't agree on a lot and aren't anything like bestest-best-friends-forever, but I had though we were on amiable enough terms to afford each other a modicum of basic respect and civility.

I'll be perfectly frank.
I thought we were on amiable terms...about a month and a half ago. I considered you, not a friend, but an acquaintance I respected...about a month and a half ago.

Since that time? You've described my friends and myself as "toxic" and "vindictive." You've accused me things I never did. Of orchestrating hateful acts I never had a hand in. Accusations that both insulted my character and hurt me personally. And for these deeds I never did and for these actions I never had a hand in? You tell me "you've made your bed, now you'll have to sleep in it."
Which, given your status as a site admin, could be construed as threatening.

I never had a bad thing to say about you, Gulliver. Not a single thing. It's why I reached out to you when things were tense.
I'm sad that's not how things are now, I really am. I'm not sure what there is left to say though.

[Sovereign Dixie]

I am having trouble finding words to express how disappointed and, frankly, kind of hurt I am by how this conversation has progressed. I know we don't agree on a lot and aren't anything like bestest-best-friends-forever, but I had though we were on amiable enough terms to afford each other a modicum of basic respect and civility.

A proposal was made about military policy was made. I disagreed with the proposal and calmly stated the reasons why. In return I was insulted and accused of being high and mighty and smug without provocation on my part.

This is just a game, and I'm perfectly aware of that. I don't have any illusions that raiding is somehow a crime on par with real life invasion. That would be ridiculous. But within the scope of this political simulation, I choose to be on the side that opposes it, and all I've done are stated my reasons and arguments for being on that side. It's not different than when we debate the merits of other laws and policies for our simulated government which ultimately has no real life consequence.

If you disagree with them and I can't convince you otherwise, that's fine. That's politics and part of the game. But if my position and the reasons for it upset you so much that you feel the need to immediately dismiss and insult me simply for stating them, then you may be the one who needs to reevaluate how seriously you're taking this.

Again, this is just a game, I play it to have fun. If this community has decided that my contributions to the region mean so little that it's okay to respond to my positions in legislative debates with cheap insults (which certainly seems to be the case right now), then I don't see much reason in sticking around.

You're the one taking it personal. Used to be I could say what I thought, and people took it for what it was. Me ranting or whatever. Now everyone acts as if I've just ass raped a kitten.

Frankly, I no longer give a shit if I rustle a few jimmies. That went out the window when I came back and seen how many chips there were sitting on various shoulders.

So, do what ya want.

[Delfos]

waaaaaaaaaaast, set a voooooote

[Prydania]

 

My apologies for my behaviour here. I'll reiterate my points.

I consider Raiding and the Defender ideology of "sovereigntism" to be one in the same. I don't believe we as a region need to engage or adopt either.
Taijitu should only partake in defensive or offensive military operations if they serve the regional security of Taijitu. We should not engage in operations that target Raiders who have never attacked us. Doing so only invites potential retribution.
In essence? I'm calling for Taijitu to adopt an Independent foreign policy.

[Wast]

I'm not sure what the content of the proposal actually is. So whoever proposed it can post a vote themselves and I will sticky it.

Edit: Actually, someone should post an actual proposal and then second it if we are going to vote on anything.

[Sovereign Dixie]

Firstly, we should wipe our asses with any treaty or agreement that binds us to any defender orgs. And not form any written ties to either side of the spectrum in the future (which had been a tradition of ours until it suddenly wasn't)

Secondly, we should form two groups. A Raider Corps and a Defender corps. The option would be given to participate in either one, or both if one chooses.