Let's deal with the inactivity!

[Allama]

OMG such rational sensibility.

You do not belong on the internet!

OMG such rational sensibility.

You do not belong on the internet!

Hahaha probably true!! XD

[Delfos]

Ecclesia rules all.

Last time I tried to tackle inactive officials there was no Ecclesia and I supposedly was trying to make elections whenever I could.

Now that Ecclesia rules all, I think all you need is to have a vote to have a new election earlier than scheduled, you don't really need any changes to the "system" for that. You'd benefit on changes to the system, make Citizen-Initiator obsolete in how the Ecclesia works was already proposed, and we've actually been substituting ourselves to the Citizen-Initiator in that regard, we already ad hoc "changed the system".

I value this ad hoc spirit therefore I'd suggest subtle changes, transfer more work to voluntary Ecclesia people, let us decide to do things, if we don't do them then it's better than pretending that we're omg so active that we make garden parties and newspapers.

There are ups and downs, I hope to see new newspapers, but I'll barely move a finger for them because I have NO TIME, I'm in the middle of a REAL political campaign, and I'm also working on a project that I want to finish before I emigrate. Up to the middle of October I doubt I'll have much time to write as much as I'm writing now. Like me, it seems a lot of us are in the middle of Real Life crap that we have to deal with, we'll want to spend some time here and help out a little but you gotta count with those that are really available.

I have high hopes with the "new" people that are trying to make us active. I have confidence in their abilities and shown that they can work together and make awesome stuff. As much as the old folks would like to control everything, the "new" people ought to deal with this, we need them fresh blood. They don't have pre-concepted experiences from past golden times that would never work nowadays.

Ecclesia needs to reclaim power, re-design the "offices", we don't need half the bills that grant autonomy to work groups that don't work and aren't really autonomous, we need to decide ourselves what to do, let people be in the center of the discussion, planning and decisions, that way everyone feels they have participated.

I'd also end the ranks in the Militia, they serve absolutely no practical purpose, they're just a status quo crap when we're all the same, we're all guided by the all seeing eye either way.

Ça Ira! Les aristocrats à la lanterne!

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bzu01gO3pi4[/yt]

[AwesomeSaucer]

Ecclesia rules all.

Last time I tried to tackle inactive officials there was no Ecclesia and I supposedly was trying to make elections whenever I could.

Now that Ecclesia rules all, I think all you need is to have a vote to have a new election earlier than scheduled, you don't really need any changes to the "system" for that. You'd benefit on changes to the system, make Citizen-Initiator obsolete in how the Ecclesia works was already proposed, and we've actually been substituting ourselves to the Citizen-Initiator in that regard, we already ad hoc "changed the system".

I value this ad hoc spirit therefore I'd suggest subtle changes, transfer more work to voluntary Ecclesia people, let us decide to do things, if we don't do them then it's better than pretending that we're omg so active that we make garden parties and newspapers.

There are ups and downs, I hope to see new newspapers, but I'll barely move a finger for them because I have NO TIME, I'm in the middle of a REAL political campaign, and I'm also working on a project that I want to finish before I emigrate. Up to the middle of October I doubt I'll have much time to write as much as I'm writing now. Like me, it seems a lot of us are in the middle of Real Life crap that we have to deal with, we'll want to spend some time here and help out a little but you gotta count with those that are really available.

I have high hopes with the "new" people that are trying to make us active. I have confidence in their abilities and shown that they can work together and make awesome stuff. As much as the old folks would like to control everything, the "new" people ought to deal with this, we need them fresh blood. They don't have pre-concepted experiences from past golden times that would never work nowadays.

Ecclesia needs to reclaim power, re-design the "offices", we don't need half the bills that grant autonomy to work groups that don't work and aren't really autonomous, we need to decide ourselves what to do, let people be in the center of the discussion, planning and decisions, that way everyone feels they have participated.

It seems someone agrees!  Welcome to the new Revolution, Delfos!

[St Oz]

The Citizen-Delegate (Allama) has been inactive lately. We currently have no acting Citizen-Initiator (Eluvatar's corrupt reign has ended). We're not bringing any WA proposals to a vote because of this.

First, I've not been super active lately, this much is true. I've been responding to all Embassy requests and hanging out on IRC a lot during the day but have otherwise not been up to much as C-D. Very little has come up for me to handle. One of the things I have been doing voluntarily outside of my duties is bringing things to vote in the Ecclesia in Eluvatar's absence. As I've no idea what sort of security checks are normally performed, I've left Citizenry applications alone, hoping Elu would return or that someone more knowledgable in that arena would jump in to help.

Second, I started putting WA proposals up for vote because I thought it would be more democratic to involve the Citizenry in the decision. I stopped doing so because they've recently been passing a lot of junk legislation that immediately gets repealed. Heck, I've stopped even looking at them because it seems like a huge waste of time. I didn't know people actually gave a shit, especially since people in IRC have often said that they don't care about the WA any more. Now that I've been made aware that some Citizens are actually still interested, I'll start posting the polls again. Thank you for bringing this to my attention.

For the record, however, it's not actually an official part of the job, just something I personally thought would be nice to do. I'm not "inactive" or neglecting my duties just because I've not been polling WA proposals.

Third, a Vice Citizen-Delegate is a good idea. Supported!

not meaning to pick on allama, just picking the big first-ish post ^^

1) We made the ecclesia so we didn't need a delegate to promote activity. I think we all enjoy the delegate doing absolutely nothing but clerical jobs that aren't that important anyway
2) A vice delegate? No we have enough positions to fill
3) Why is it every time we're a little inactive people want to blame the ones in charge. The blame is on everyone! Especially when we're a direct democracy and we have no direct leader(s). Quit fussing over who is to blame and think about why you yourself weren't doing enough. If the reason was 'nobody else is posting' then you're a fucking mongrel
4) As I said in the other thread, we need native taijituans back in taijitu, stop giving so many shits about other regions especially TNP, and I don't give a shit if you're emperor of buttplugs there

[Allama]

As much as the old folks would like to control everything, the "new" people ought to deal with this, we need them fresh blood.

Though you made a lot of good points, I'm curious about the above. Which of the old folks specifically are trying to keep personal control and/or suppress the input of new members? I've not seen this happening. In fact, I routinely see the old guard (so to speak) encouraging newbs to participate and run in elections, especially on the RMB.

If this is going on I'm genuinely interested in hearing about it. We can't tolerate that sort of bullshit.

1) We made the ecclesia so we didn't need a delegate to promote activity. I think we all enjoy the delegate doing absolutely nothing but clerical jobs that aren't that important anyway

That's exactly why I ran for Citizen-Delegate. I don't want to shoulder a bunch of responsibility when I know I won't always be available due to being busy in RL. It's nice to be a figurehead: easy peasy "work" and I still get to feel like I'm involved in the region I care about so much. 

[Red Mones]

The Citizen-Delegate (Allama) has been inactive lately. We currently have no acting Citizen-Initiator (Eluvatar's corrupt reign has ended). We're not bringing any WA proposals to a vote because of this.

First, I've not been super active lately, this much is true. I've been responding to all Embassy requests and hanging out on IRC a lot during the day but have otherwise not been up to much as C-D. Very little has come up for me to handle. One of the things I have been doing voluntarily outside of my duties is bringing things to vote in the Ecclesia in Eluvatar's absence. As I've no idea what sort of security checks are normally performed, I've left Citizenry applications alone, hoping Elu would return or that someone more knowledgable in that arena would jump in to help.

Second, I started putting WA proposals up for vote because I thought it would be more democratic to involve the Citizenry in the decision. I stopped doing so because they've recently been passing a lot of junk legislation that immediately gets repealed. Heck, I've stopped even looking at them because it seems like a huge waste of time. I didn't know people actually gave a shit, especially since people in IRC have often said that they don't care about the WA any more. Now that I've been made aware that some Citizens are actually still interested, I'll start posting the polls again. Thank you for bringing this to my attention.

For the record, however, it's not actually an official part of the job, just something I personally thought would be nice to do. I'm not "inactive" or neglecting my duties just because I've not been polling WA proposals.

Third, a Vice Citizen-Delegate is a good idea. Supported!

not meaning to pick on allama, just picking the big first-ish post ^^

1) We made the ecclesia so we didn't need a delegate to promote activity. I think we all enjoy the delegate doing absolutely nothing but clerical jobs that aren't that important anyway
2) A vice delegate? No we have enough positions to fill
3) Why is it every time we're a little inactive people want to blame the ones in charge. The blame is on everyone! Especially when we're a direct democracy and we have no direct leader(s). Quit fussing over who is to blame and think about why you yourself weren't doing enough. If the reason was 'nobody else is posting' then you're a fucking mongrel
4) As I said in the other thread, we need native taijituans back in taijitu, stop giving so many shits about other regions especially TNP, and I don't give a shit if you're emperor of buttplugs there

I say we do the exact opposite of whatever St. Oz says. 

[Khem]

not meaning to pick on allama, just picking the big first-ish post ^^

1) We made the ecclesia so we didn't need a delegate to promote activity. I think we all enjoy the delegate doing absolutely nothing but clerical jobs that aren't that important anyway
2) A vice delegate? No we have enough positions to fill
3) Why is it every time we're a little inactive people want to blame the ones in charge. The blame is on everyone! Especially when we're a direct democracy and we have no direct leader(s). Quit fussing over who is to blame and think about why you yourself weren't doing enough. If the reason was 'nobody else is posting' then you're a fucking mongrel
4) As I said in the other thread, we need native taijituans back in taijitu, stop giving so many shits about other regions especially TNP, and I don't give a shit if you're emperor of buttplugs there

Most especially supportive of your third point.

[AwesomeSaucer]

not meaning to pick on allama, just picking the big first-ish post ^^

1) We made the ecclesia so we didn't need a delegate to promote activity. I think we all enjoy the delegate doing absolutely nothing but clerical jobs that aren't that important anyway
2) A vice delegate? No we have enough positions to fill
3) Why is it every time we're a little inactive people want to blame the ones in charge. The blame is on everyone! Especially when we're a direct democracy and we have no direct leader(s). Quit fussing over who is to blame and think about why you yourself weren't doing enough. If the reason was 'nobody else is posting' then you're a fucking mongrel
4) As I said in the other thread, we need native taijituans back in taijitu, stop giving so many shits about other regions especially TNP, and I don't give a shit if you're emperor of buttplugs there

[bigbaldben]

not meaning to pick on allama, just picking the big first-ish post ^^

1) We made the ecclesia so we didn't need a delegate to promote activity. I think we all enjoy the delegate doing absolutely nothing but clerical jobs that aren't that important anyway
2) A vice delegate? No we have enough positions to fill
3) Why is it every time we're a little inactive people want to blame the ones in charge. The blame is on everyone! Especially when we're a direct democracy and we have no direct leader(s). Quit fussing over who is to blame and think about why you yourself weren't doing enough. If the reason was 'nobody else is posting' then you're a fucking mongrel
4) As I said in the other thread, we need native taijituans back in taijitu, stop giving so many shits about other regions especially TNP, and I don't give a shit if you're emperor of buttplugs there

Most especially supportive of your third point.

I agree, especially with the third.  I don't think I've ever stated that publicly, so it just occurred to me that some things I say might be mistaken for blaming.  It IS our shared responsibility for activity here.

I would just say that if you want to help generate activity, then generate activity.  Stop talking about stuff and just do it!  The Ecclesia, I think I'm learning, is there to keep things in check, not to be a "big brother/mother-may-I" bureaucracy. 

Obviously, you can't revamp the government on your own, but come up with things you CAN do and just do it!  Gauging interest is one thing, but don't spend weeks asking if people might possibly be interested in something.  If there's no interest in what you're doing, it will be apparent soon enough.

------

Awesomesaucer, I don't know if you're serious about a second revolution or whatever, but I am not on board for installing a new government - especially if the point is to generate activity.  Like Wast alluded to earlier, you'll get a spike in interest via controversy, but I think Taijitu has had plenty of revolutions.  Why don't we work on making our existing government better?  Why not fine tune instead of destroy and rebuild?

[Dyr Nasad]

I would just say that if you want to help generate activity, then generate activity.  Stop talking about stuff and just do it!  The Ecclesia, I think I'm learning, is there to keep things in check, not to be a "big brother/mother-may-I" bureaucracy. 

 

[Allama]

Awesomesaucer, I don't know if you're serious about a second revolution or whatever, but I am not on board for installing a new government - especially if the point is to generate activity.  Like Wast alluded to earlier, you'll get a spike in interest via controversy, but I think Taijitu has had plenty of revolutions.  Why don't we work on making our existing government better?  Why not fine tune instead of destroy and rebuild?

              

[AwesomeSaucer]

Awesomesaucer, I don't know if you're serious about a second revolution or whatever, but I am not on board for installing a new government - especially if the point is to generate activity.  Like Wast alluded to earlier, you'll get a spike in interest via controversy, but I think Taijitu has had plenty of revolutions.  Why don't we work on making our existing government better?  Why not fine tune instead of destroy and rebuild?

Tmk, one of the first things I said about this whole ordeal is that I don't want another revolution.  This time, we need baby steps.

All I want is a less powerful Liaison position, and more social outreach.  That's really all.

[Funkadelia]

I'm sorry for being a bad Taijituan

[Myroria]

I'm sorry for being a bad Taijituan

I don't care that you spent two years hanging around Taijitu trying to make it work when it had 40 nations in it, you were Delegate of Lazarus once and that makes you a fucking prick.

[Funkadelia]

Awesomesaucer, I don't know if you're serious about a second revolution or whatever, but I am not on board for installing a new government - especially if the point is to generate activity.  Like Wast alluded to earlier, you'll get a spike in interest via controversy, but I think Taijitu has had plenty of revolutions.  Why don't we work on making our existing government better?  Why not fine tune instead of destroy and rebuild?

I tried this in 2012, and it definitely did not work.