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News: Let us make the whole region resound with the song of We Are The Happiest People in NationStates.

Author Topic: Legislation Concerning Citizenship  (Read 7297 times)

Offline Delfos

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Re: Legislation Concerning Citizenship
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2014, 11:59:56 PM »
But you're adding bureaucracy to the citizenship, that is not the right argument, and you always had Regional Security, just not institutionalized.

Offline Stone Shark

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Re: Legislation Concerning Citizenship
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2014, 12:53:17 AM »
But you're adding bureaucracy to the citizenship, that is not the right argument, and you always had Regional Security, just not institutionalized.

I'm confused. Where has bureaucracy been added anywhere in this legislation?

The definition of Bureaucracy is:

a system of government in which most of the important decisions are made by state officials rather than by elected representatives

We are a direct system of governance, the Citizen-Initiator is a citizen, they are bound by the will of the people directly as the Ecclesia are the people. There cannot be bureaucracy in this system of governance.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2014, 01:32:15 AM by Stone Shark »
<MyroPhone> I don't know who Stone Shark is but he is a fucking genius

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Offline Myroria

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Re: Legislation Concerning Citizenship
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2014, 01:03:03 AM »
I would prefer to keep official offices to a minimum. We don't have enough threats to have a whole new section of government, but we do need some sort of protection. This proposal allows the Initiator to handle that, while being kept under the control of the electorate.
"I assure you -- I will be quite content to be a mere mortal again, dedicated to my own amusements."

Offline Delfos

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Re: Legislation Concerning Citizenship
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2014, 03:17:21 AM »
I would prefer to keep official offices to a minimum. We don't have enough threats to have a whole new section of government, but we do need some sort of protection. This proposal allows the Initiator to handle that, while being kept under the control of the electorate.

cool story, but I don't think I need to clarify further my concern, I do want the access to participation to be "effortless" as you say, the less things people need to do to participate the better.

I'm confused. Where has bureaucracy been added anywhere in this legislation?

The definition of Bureaucracy is:

a system of government in which most of the important decisions are made by state officials rather than by elected representatives

We are a direct system of governance, the Citizen-Initiator is a citizen, they are bound by the will of the people directly as the Ecclesia are the people. There cannot be bureaucracy in this system of governance.

We can play with words all day if you want. You're giving power to a figure, whether or not he has a Citizen prefix, he has the power to allow people or not to participate in Ecclesia. This proposal, imo, adds fairly organized collection of information, which is fine, but as I said before, I'd rather people not have any restrictions accessing Ecclesia and that someone else to have the trouble finding out if someone is ok or not, because that already happens, information is already being exchanged in the NS game either way, we already have collective information, as I said, Regional Security already happens in an ad hoc small scale. We wouldn't be any more safe bc there's a fact-checking system to see if someone is lying or we doubt the applicant is lying. In other words, if you can't be Stasi, don't pretend you can, this system adds no real security, it's a false statement of security, the same way the oath is.

Oh, beware of the oath breakers.

Offline Myroria

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Re: Legislation Concerning Citizenship
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2014, 07:37:31 AM »
I would like to motion that we move this legislation to a vote.
"I assure you -- I will be quite content to be a mere mortal again, dedicated to my own amusements."

Offline Allama

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Re: Legislation Concerning Citizenship
« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2014, 03:39:57 PM »
I would like to motion that we move this legislation to a vote.

Motion seconded.

Offline Stone Shark

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Re: Legislation Concerning Citizenship
« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2014, 08:48:50 PM »
I would like to motion that we move this legislation to a vote.

Motion seconded.

Motion thirded.
<MyroPhone> I don't know who Stone Shark is but he is a fucking genius

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Offline St Oz

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Re: Legislation Concerning Citizenship
« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2014, 09:56:01 PM »
I would prefer to keep official offices to a minimum. We don't have enough threats to have a whole new section of government, but we do need some sort of protection. This proposal allows the Initiator to handle that, while being kept under the control of the electorate.

cool story, but I don't think I need to clarify further my concern, I do want the access to participation to be "effortless" as you say, the less things people need to do to participate the better.

I'm confused. Where has bureaucracy been added anywhere in this legislation?

The definition of Bureaucracy is:

a system of government in which most of the important decisions are made by state officials rather than by elected representatives

We are a direct system of governance, the Citizen-Initiator is a citizen, they are bound by the will of the people directly as the Ecclesia are the people. There cannot be bureaucracy in this system of governance.

We can play with words all day if you want. You're giving power to a figure, whether or not he has a Citizen prefix, he has the power to allow people or not to participate in Ecclesia. This proposal, imo, adds fairly organized collection of information, which is fine, but as I said before, I'd rather people not have any restrictions accessing Ecclesia and that someone else to have the trouble finding out if someone is ok or not, because that already happens, information is already being exchanged in the NS game either way, we already have collective information, as I said, Regional Security already happens in an ad hoc small scale. We wouldn't be any more safe bc there's a fact-checking system to see if someone is lying or we doubt the applicant is lying. In other words, if you can't be Stasi, don't pretend you can, this system adds no real security, it's a false statement of security, the same way the oath is.

Oh, beware of the oath breakers.

Maintain your cover agents, ready your tranqs and black bags on the target when he gets into position. Hail the revolution.

Copy that. Hail the revolution

Also fourth'd

Offline Gulliver

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Re: Legislation Concerning Citizenship
« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2014, 09:58:34 PM »
I've moved this to a vote.