Ecclesia Improvement Act [Discussion]

[Delfos]

Hello Zaradai and welcome. I know it's sometimes too much effort to jump in some discussion about people you don't fully know and about a regional government you might not yet understand all the ramifications. What you did was very good, thank you, may it help others that haven't involved themselves with these discussions to also voice their concerns.

I always coin that Participation is the main key for activity, although this was not exactly a participative democracy I always tried all the ways people could "play" along with the rest would be through participatory attitudes like: abolishing ranks/status; allow people without citizenship to participate; communicate to people on all fronts, specially through in-game telegrams (that worked well when I was Speaker); take the time to allow participation.

Yet even this may not be sufficient as you pointed out correctly, but how do we involve those who don't post 1 single thing? as you may understand we cannot rely solely on "new people" if we want to include them. The recent Orri disappearance is a good example, he was elected to a position and then he didn't come to the forums for the rest of his mandate, they may not be as active as these people that have all their faces all over the forum - Well it's true that happens with the old people as well, Eluvatar has been a master of abandonment (hey don't take this personally, it's just a fact that you're a master  ).

It's fine throwing abstract concept around, like JOBS WILL FIX EVERYTHING and INVOLVING THE NEW PEOPLE IS PARAMOUNT, but we really shouldn't fake that we involve new people. I guess I consider AwesomeSaucer new but if the governmnet really wants to involve them we can't treat them as tokens, like the token black guy on older series, the token homosexual, the token middle-eastern, the token nerd. Please don't do that, really take the time to allow these people to express their ideas even if they are total crap.

But please, also take the time to explain how you think new people would be more comfortable participating in Taijitu businesses.

Hello everyone. I know I am new here
(...)
 Since I am new here I can not possibly assume I can tell you how to run your region or your board, I simply wish you take what I have to say into consideration
(...)
    I would like to address that not many people who are active citizens address their thoughts or wants publicly within these comments, you can look at all of posts within the Ecclesia and you won't find more than three people other than you commenting. It's always you who start and end discussions, and its always you with the post counts ranging in the hundreds(and don't think being here longer has much to do with it). Now look outside the Ecclesia: the general discussion page is filled with all of your faces
(...)
As I write this, I'm the only one new citizen to speak my mind.
(...)
to me and to anyone else who strolls in, all they see is a bunch of laughing people sitting and eating around a moldy table in an abonded Castle
(...)
being too indulged in this fakery. I mean this in two ways, one of which is the fact that before now you all ignored this issue which was apparent from the start, (...), this is such an egalitarian region the only people who don't participate are those who left and although that is sad, look, we got Jerry and Tom and Lisa, the whole crew (...) you all insist your the great elders of the nation, but you act like the joker while you have a tragic backstory, its uncanny.
(...)
those not expecting it or those not accustomed to it may see it as unfriendly activity, especially if they don't bother to read the names of the posters.
(...)
How does a direct democracy work if no one is being direct? How does a representative democracy work if no one is represented?
(...)
every successful country runs on WHAT THE PEOPLE UNDER YOU WANT, and honestly your not even doing the former correctly.
(...)
You can't make an active board unless your active with everyone, no style of government changes that fact. (...)
It's not the solution Taijitu wants, it's the solution Taijitu needs.

People, I did a crappy job cutting the post but please read the whole Zaradai's post, respect the opinion of someone other than "us".

[Of The US]

(stuff)

The points you make are very good, and are part of the reason for this, the humor in the whole French Revolution was lost to almost everyone, and was seriously just ruining bringing in new people, not many are looking for that style. I am glad to see that its drawn in a few new people, we have been lacking in those recently, though there have been a few new people recently(bigbaldben and Awesome Saucer are among the few) there have not been many to stick around. You can't always legislate a region into growing, but at this point I don't think very many people are interested in the Revolution any more.

[Myroria]

I have no comment other than to say I agree with almost the entirety of Zaradai's post. New people are what make a region thrive and the forums have a chronic problem appealing to anyone.

I don't think creating more artificial barriers to participation will encourage people to come and participate, but perhaps if we got more comments from what new people might want in a forum government we could work something out. In the end, this is all about them and not us.

I would also like to say that, as someone who spoke to other regions on behalf of Taijitu for months, the French Revolution theme is what people found most interesting and what I got the most questions about. If people want to get rid of it, fine whatever, but I think people are forgetting it did have a purpose and it was successful, at least for a while.

[Feniquyar]

I'm on board with this legislation

[Khem]

Hello everyone. I know I am new here (and by new I mean this is my third post, my only others being getting citizenship and introductions), but please hear me out and consider what I have to say. I am not sure exactly what order I want to put my thoughts in and I'm not really knowledgable in the specifics of politics, and often it will seem like I am rambling on, but everything I say here has a point to it, which will ultimately lead directly into the core of this topic, and so I really fell that I need to say what is on my mind. Remember that is all the perspective of one guy looking from the outside and taking a quick look at everything.
  First, I am making it clear now that when I say "you" I am talking about "all of you here within this thread and those of you who have been actively RPing or GPing for the longest out of all of the citizens(basically long time members). That's right, THIS POST IS FOR ALL OF YOU, ahhh...excuse my caps . Since I am new here I can not possibly assume I can tell you how to run your region or your board, I simply wish you take what I have to say into consideration when deciding on whether or not to scrap the government and what to do thereafter. I'll be upfront and honest though, I don't really care about the specifics of what is going to happen or how anything is going to change, but I always hate seeing the destruction of a community and the people within it.
    I would like to address that not many people who are active citizens address their thoughts or wants publicly within these comments, you can look at all of posts within the Ecclesia and you won't find more than three people other than you commenting. It's always you who start and end discussions, and its always you with the post counts ranging in the hundreds(and don't think being here longer has much to do with it). Now look outside the Ecclesia: the general discussion page is filled with all of your faces; the rps and world building is inactive and filled with all of your countries, with some of the regular citizens' countries put on the map but not on the board, many of those rps on the board are incomplete. This very thread, the thread that can literally change the region as we know it forever, and yet it's all you, no one from the outside and no newbie with a fresh mind, just you here, as usual. As I write this, I'm the only one new citizen to speak my mind. Now look at the greetings board. There are so many new people being introduced into Taijitu, and yet so many don't post anything, me included of course. Why is it that so many people join in the boards but then rarely participate? I think I see a few reasons:
   1. also mentioned by a lot of you, the place used to be a ghost board...perhaps people were scared by the inactivity? No there is a bit of activity recently, enough to look like a regular board, the problem is is that this board has a population of around 400(one of you mentioned some point in time the pop was between 350 and 500 or something like that), and an amount of about 7 who get daily sunlight.
   2. The atmosphere around here fells too stuffy/ preppy/ absolutely suffocating while everyone is laughing their butts off. Now don't get me wrong, you all seem like nice people, and the way you all carried out conversations and deal with problems is more civilized than most boards, of course this doesn't apply to everyone but I haven't known you for long. The thing is is that while all of you are having fun and giggling, well, your having fun and giggling because you all have been here so long, you all know each other and you all know the story, but to me and to anyone else who strolls in, all they see is a bunch of laughing people sitting and eating around a moldy table in an abonded Castle(because admit it, your the only ones really here, and your decor is old and unrefined). Also you see all this sillyness, like kittens and such and really silly discussions and then you look at the other posts and you get an array of serious and heavy matters, like "getting activity back", or " changing the entire Taijitu government", and amongst this you still see sarcasm and jokes lying around. I know you all like being funny, but half your threads are serious matters that need to be taken completely seriously. It makes you all look immature, look you don't really care, but perhaps it was because of this next issue.
  3. being too indulged in this fakery. I mean this in two ways, one of which is the fact that before now you all ignored this issue which was apparent from the start, it was always "Jerry left, we need him back, the place just isn't the same", " hey, Jerry's back, I am so glad", "where is all the other members who don't participate", " what do you mean, this is such an egalitarian region the only people who don't participate are those who left and although that is sad, look, we got Jerry and Tom and Lisa, the whole crew, oh look Timmy has been here half a year isn't that fantastic ". The other fakery was that you all try so hard too be funny within a role that yourself has set to bet a serious duty, people like consistency, either be serious within a serious duty, or be funny within a satirical role, mixing the two don't work, yet you all insist your the great elders of the nation, but you act like the joker while you have a tragic backstory, its uncanny.
   4. Jerks. It's doesn't need to be said that jerks will make people leave in an instant, we already see Myr leave because of jerks, and the thing is is that when I first looked at some of the posts, they seemed quite jerkish(if that's a word), I could tell the difference because I use dry humour a lot around my friend, but those not expecting it or those not accustomed to it may see it as unfriendly activity, especially if they don't bother to read the names of the posters.
   You might ask, what is the relevance in this, well here is the revelance: How does a direct democracy work if no one is being direct? How does a representative democracy work if no one is represented? How does a country work if the people don't exist? It doesn't. And that is because the only ones here are you. You all see yourself, you hear yourself, and you agree with your yourself. Because there is noone but yourself. You all WANT WHAT YOU WANT, but every successful country runs on WHAT THE PEOPLE UNDER YOU WANT, and honestly your not even doing the former correctly. If you want simply what you want then nothing good will come of it. You need to see what you HAVE(which I have showed you in the third paragraph and bullet point of this rant), then you decide what you want the RESULT to look like. Then you decide what NEEDS to happen, and if you CAN FIT IN what you WANT to happen. or lack thereof depending on if the situation right now is what one of you had always envisioned the place to be. As for the latter, you can't keep being so closed minded, only a few of you have asked what the others think or want. You can't make an active board unless your active with everyone, no style of government changes that fact. Before you all consider what type of gov or what type of leadership, really look at everything and everyone, before you start disagreements and heavy stuff starts to fill the board(though its a bit too late for that). Everyone has something different they want. But was is truly needed never changes, so you all shouldn't be proposing what you want or don't want for this region, but what this region needs. Haven't you ever heard the expression, "It's not the solution Taijitu wants, it's the solution Taijitu needs.

I appreciate your contribution to this dialogue. In relating to point 3, I very much doubt myself or many other old timers are capable of giving up mixing silly and serious (it is merely a game after all). How would you bring about greater numbers of new participants within the structures of RP, Community and GP?

Also don't apologize for rambling, all of us do it

[Of The US]

I have no comment other than to say I agree with almost the entirety of Zaradai's post. New people are what make a region thrive and the forums have a chronic problem appealing to anyone.

I don't think creating more artificial barriers to participation will encourage people to come and participate, but perhaps if we got more comments from what new people might want in a forum government we could work something out. In the end, this is all about them and not us.

I would also like to say that, as someone who spoke to other regions on behalf of Taijitu for months, the French Revolution theme is what people found most interesting and what I got the most questions about. If people want to get rid of it, fine whatever, but I think people are forgetting it did have a purpose and it was successful, at least for a while.

It did indeed have its purpose, and it was very successful, you were a master with words, and honestly I looked forward to anything you had to say(or write I guess). While I know that the French Revolutionary theme was something that was found interesting from existing regions very few people were joining the forum I think that there were several issues with that, the government style being part of it

[Eluvatar]

A lot of people here like the current system. Some people even say it works well.

I don't doubt it. People like systems that give them everything they've ever wanted.

I don't think this is a helpful attitude to take.

I didn't say there were hidden people who disliked me. I said that there are people not commenting who you say agree with you, but you are not citing this.

Again, ask Elu about what I mean when I say "a lot of people don't like the system."

That I have a list of concerns and a list of names (uncorrelated) does not mean I can publish them, or pass them on even.

I think it would be better for the region for people to (civilly) air their concerns in public.

My preference would be to return to the system used for the original Taijitu Senate. Which is either representative democracy or direct democracy. Depending on who you ask.

You might want to get this straight before voting to get rid of the current system.

The proposal calls for what...a constitutional convention? I suppose that will be where we hammer out the specifics after getting rid of this current quagmire.

Describing the current system as a 'quagmire' is the sort of dismissive approach that has got some up in arms.

I have every faith a new government could replace the Militia Act, but this proposal is not about instituting a new government. It is about dissolving the current one.

So a new one can be formed.

As I've argued, it's just as possible to replace the government directly. Yes, it would require rallying support around a specific proposal, and yes that specific proposal would be directly compared to the current arrangements. I don't think those are problems.

There are people here who feel the current system, despite its egalitarian nature, is restricting.
Wait, you said something about that...

You keep saying that "some people feel" or similar without ever naming concrete names or concrete grievances about how the current system is "restrictive". Some unknown people might feel bad about something is not the basis for repealing an entire legal system.

Ask Elu.

Again, yes, I have seen some confirmation that there are several actual Taijis you refer to, but in a democracy we kind of need to provide evidence publicly to use it.

What specific issues do you have with the current Militia?

Sovereigntism. And the idea that we ought to go on the offensive against folks who have never threatened Taijitu.

Technically speaking, invader groups did threaten to invade Taijitu in at least one instance in 2013 when the founder nation was occasionally ceasing to exist and the region was very small.

Also, we have treaty obligations with plenty of regions other than TNP.

"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."

I actually would expect that, Funkadelia, say, would be more concerned about our treaty with Lazarus.

Furthermore, in terms of which obligations are actually likely to come up in the near future, TNP is not really one of them. The region's secure, and is unlikely to have a delegacy transition we could help with before January.

Fun fact. The Glorious Revolution only exists because of the last Junta. You're welcome.

I suppose you telepathically instructed everyone to get Taijitu to 500 nations while you were away - doing what again?

The Glorious Revolution wouldn't have happened without the Junta getting everyone to give a crap.

Maybe.

Hello everyone. I know I am new here (and by new I mean this is my third post, my only others being getting citizenship and introductions), but please hear me out and consider what I have to say. I am not sure exactly what order I want to put my thoughts in and I'm not really knowledgable in the specifics of politics, and often it will seem like I am rambling on, but everything I say here has a point to it, which will ultimately lead directly into the core of this topic, and so I really fell that I need to say what is on my mind. Remember that is all the perspective of one guy looking from the outside and taking a quick look at everything.

I was very, very, glad to see your post. Thank you for making it, and don't worry about its length. (Though line breaks between paragraphs might've made it more readable for those less fanatical about this than I).

  First, I am making it clear now that when I say "you" I am talking about "all of you here within this thread and those of you who have been actively RPing or GPing for the longest out of all of the citizens(basically long time members). That's right, THIS POST IS FOR ALL OF YOU, ahhh...excuse my caps . Since I am new here I can not possibly assume I can tell you how to run your region or your board, I simply wish you take what I have to say into consideration when deciding on whether or not to scrap the government and what to do thereafter. I'll be upfront and honest though, I don't really care about the specifics of what is going to happen or how anything is going to change, but I always hate seeing the destruction of a community and the people within it.

I would very much be interested in your opinion on the actual laws, too, but only if you want to of course.

    I would like to address that not many people who are active citizens address their thoughts or wants publicly within these comments, you can look at all of posts within the Ecclesia and you won't find more than three people other than you commenting. It's always you who start and end discussions, and its always you with the post counts ranging in the hundreds(and don't think being here longer has much to do with it).

To some extent the prevalence of these posters is somewhat inevitable, but I would definitely agree that we have way too little input being aired by others right now.

Now look outside the Ecclesia: the general discussion page is filled with all of your faces; the rps and world building is inactive and filled with all of your countries, with some of the regular citizens' countries put on the map but not on the board, many of those rps on the board are incomplete.

It may be a good idea for us to talk about how we can better help people get started with and complete their tales.

This very thread, the thread that can literally change the region as we know it forever, and yet it's all you, no one from the outside and no newbie with a fresh mind, just you here, as usual. As I write this, I'm the only one new citizen to speak my mind. Now look at the greetings board. There are so many new people being introduced into Taijitu, and yet so many don't post anything, me included of course. Why is it that so many people join in the boards but then rarely participate? I think I see a few reasons:

Very much want to look at these reasons!

   1. also mentioned by a lot of you, the place used to be a ghost board...perhaps people were scared by the inactivity? No there is a bit of activity recently, enough to look like a regular board, the problem is is that this board has a population of around 400(one of you mentioned some point in time the pop was between 350 and 500 or something like that), and an amount of about 7 who get daily sunlight.

One thing to keep in mind is that the regional population never matches the active forum population. Generally something like 5% of the region will be active on the forum.

I think we're doing worse than that at the moment, however. Good to point it out.

   2. The atmosphere around here fells too stuffy/ preppy/ absolutely suffocating while everyone is laughing their butts off. Now don't get me wrong, you all seem like nice people, and the way you all carried out conversations and deal with problems is more civilized than most boards, of course this doesn't apply to everyone but I haven't known you for long. The thing is is that while all of you are having fun and giggling, well, your having fun and giggling because you all have been here so long, you all know each other and you all know the story, but to me and to anyone else who strolls in, all they see is a bunch of laughing people sitting and eating around a moldy table in an abonded Castle(because admit it, your the only ones really here, and your decor is old and unrefined). Also you see all this sillyness, like kittens and such and really silly discussions and then you look at the other posts and you get an array of serious and heavy matters, like "getting activity back", or " changing the entire Taijitu government", and amongst this you still see sarcasm and jokes lying around. I know you all like being funny, but half your threads are serious matters that need to be taken completely seriously. It makes you all look immature, look you don't really care, but perhaps it was because of this next issue.

I'm not sure that requiring serious discussions to be humorless would help.

  3. being too indulged in this fakery. I mean this in two ways, one of which is the fact that before now you all ignored this issue which was apparent from the start, it was always "Jerry left, we need him back, the place just isn't the same", " hey, Jerry's back, I am so glad", "where is all the other members who don't participate", " what do you mean, this is such an egalitarian region the only people who don't participate are those who left and although that is sad, look, we got Jerry and Tom and Lisa, the whole crew, oh look Timmy has been here half a year isn't that fantastic ". The other fakery was that you all try so hard too be funny within a role that yourself has set to bet a serious duty, people like consistency, either be serious within a serious duty, or be funny within a satirical role, mixing the two don't work, yet you all insist your the great elders of the nation, but you act like the joker while you have a tragic backstory, its uncanny.

   4. Jerks. It's doesn't need to be said that jerks will make people leave in an instant, we already see Myr leave because of jerks, and the thing is is that when I first looked at some of the posts, they seemed quite jerkish(if that's a word), I could tell the difference because I use dry humour a lot around my friend, but those not expecting it or those not accustomed to it may see it as unfriendly activity, especially if they don't bother to read the names of the posters.

Yes, we really do need less unkind behavior.

   You might ask, what is the relevance in this, well here is the revelance: How does a direct democracy work if no one is being direct? How does a representative democracy work if no one is represented? How does a country work if the people don't exist? It doesn't. And that is because the only ones here are you. You all see yourself, you hear yourself, and you agree with your yourself. Because there is noone but yourself. You all WANT WHAT YOU WANT, but every successful country runs on WHAT THE PEOPLE UNDER YOU WANT, and honestly your not even doing the former correctly. If you want simply what you want then nothing good will come of it. You need to see what you HAVE(which I have showed you in the third paragraph and bullet point of this rant), then you decide what you want the RESULT to look like. Then you decide what NEEDS to happen, and if you CAN FIT IN what you WANT to happen. or lack thereof depending on if the situation right now is what one of you had always envisioned the place to be. As for the latter, you can't keep being so closed minded, only a few of you have asked what the others think or want. You can't make an active board unless your active with everyone, no style of government changes that fact. Before you all consider what type of gov or what type of leadership, really look at everything and everyone, before you start disagreements and heavy stuff starts to fill the board(though its a bit too late for that). Everyone has something different they want. But was is truly needed never changes, so you all shouldn't be proposing what you want or don't want for this region, but what this region needs. Haven't you ever heard the expression, "It's not the solution Taijitu wants, it's the solution Taijitu needs.

Food for thought, definitely.

I haven't really been asking other people what they think, either, have I?

I approve of this.

I'm on board with this legislation

It's great to hear from the two of you as well! That said, is there any chance you could share a bit more of your thinking, it could really help understand what we need to do.

[The Church of Satan]

I don't see what the problem is. Our current system not only works, it works quite well. The system itself doesn't seem to be an issue to me.

[Khem]

So going to the original point we seem to have generated a few camps of thought which we should vote between.

• Scrap the system, then make something new
• Constitutional convention to create a new system on top of the old
• Keep the status quo but seek to reconcile concern by
• Everything is perfect, people just need to be nicer to each other

[Eluvatar]

So going to the original point we seem to have generated a few camps of thought which we should vote between.

• Scrap the system, then make something new
• Constitutional convention to create a new system on top of the old
• Keep the status quo but seek to reconcile concern by
• Everything is perfect, people just need to be nicer to each other

As things stand we will be voting on the proposal as written to scrap the system, then come up with something new, starting tomorrow.

I would certainly be interested in proposals to amend the constitution to rename the Ecclesia and/or make other changes as people desire.

I do suspect that it would be better to resolve the heated general conflict and mistrust before doing big legal changes, but I suspect my preference for this will be seen as carrying ulterior motives...

[AwesomeSaucer]

Zaradai, I would like to speak with you in private.  I will send you a PM. 

People, I have been saying this for months now.  The reason Taijitu is becoming stagnant is because we promote stagnacity.  We say that we want new members, and spit in their faces if they say anything that doesn't follow the status quo.  We want fresh blood, but now seem to be promoting a system of representative democracy that repels new members.  But you want to know what the biggest problem of all of this is?

NationStates.  Yep, the damn game this entire region is founded on.   I hate to break it to you guys, but NO ONE KNOWS WHAT NATIONSTATES IS.  It is a niche game that I'm playing less and less by the day, and that the vast majority of people never had played.  Maybe it was "cool" back in '07 or '08 out something like that (when the majority of you started playing), but the vast majority of people still playing are just that - still playing, as in people that just happened to have not stopped playing NS since 07.

Our lifeline at this point is literally a Reddit post about NS that happens to make it to the front page.  And the overwhelming majority of people that register on Taijitu from those Reddit posts never make a single post on the forum.  Not even for Citizenship.

This is why we have the environment we do.  Taijitu had turned less and less from a government game, and more and more into a secretive club.  No new laws have been made in God knows how long, and no new members have joined in months, and not countibg Orri, since I came.

If we want to grow up, we need to actually grow up.  NationStates was a great founding point of the forum, but we have moved past it, and there is overwhelming evidence for so.

I will vote for a new government, and I will promote the guild idea on top of an Ecclesia that all citizens are a member of.  However, even more than that, I will promote a system that, above all, lets Taijitu be what it's supposed to be - a fun, realistic, government simulation, and vibrant community.  We want a steady flow of me members, not one per year.

[Zaradai]

Thank you to all of you who read my post and replied, I honestly didn't think all of you here would bother with a post as long as a college essay. I do hope that I can continue to be helpful to this discussion even without knowing the story first hand.

Yet even this may not be sufficient as you pointed out correctly, but how do we involve those who don't post 1 single thing? as you may understand we cannot rely solely on "new people" if we want to include them. The recent Orri disappearance is a good example, he was elected to a position and then he didn't come to the forums for the rest of his mandate, they may not be as active as these people that have all their faces all over the forum - Well it's true that happens with the old people as well, Eluvatar has been a master of abandonment (hey don't take this personally, it's just a fact that you're a master  ).

It's fine throwing abstract concept around, like JOBS WILL FIX EVERYTHING and INVOLVING THE NEW PEOPLE IS PARAMOUNT, but we really shouldn't fake that we involve new people. I guess I consider AwesomeSaucer new but if the governmnet really wants to involve them we can't treat them as tokens, like the token black guy on older series, the token homosexual, the token middle-eastern, the token nerd. Please don't do that, really take the time to allow these people to express their ideas even if they are total crap.

But please, also take the time to explain how you think new people would be more comfortable participating in Taijitu businesses.

If I understand you correctly about what you mean by making people tokens, then I can assure that is not what this kind of board needs. The idea of simply having the new people to be there as placeholders or some such is close to the opposite of what I think the board was aiming for in the first place. Shouldn't this board be a place full of people who are actually interested in the board? I believe that what this place needs isn't just new members, but new, enthusiastic, committed members. In order to get those kind of people I think that all of you need to implement funner, long-standing activities that require commitment. And to probably update all of those wikis and forums. If you make something that people will be interested in and can be involved in for a long time, then people will naturally flock to it.

I appreciate your contribution to this dialogue. In relating to point 3, I very much doubt myself or many other old timers are capable of giving up mixing silly and serious (it is merely a game after all). How would you bring about greater numbers of new participants within the structures of RP, Community and GP?

Also don't apologize for rambling, all of us do it

Fair enough I suppose, I don't really mind being silly during a serious conversation, but I think that there is always a time to drop the drama mask and look at the problem head-on. Which of course, your doing now, but looking at some the dates on the threads and dates mentioned here, it seems as if this discussion is overdue by several months.

 But you want to know what the biggest problem of all of this is?

NationStates.  Yep, the damn game this entire region is founded on.   I hate to break it to you guys, but NO ONE KNOWS WHAT NATIONSTATES IS.  It is a niche game that I'm playing less and less by the day, and that the vast majority of people never had played.  Maybe it was "cool" back in '07 or '08 out something like that (when the majority of you started playing), but the vast majority of people still playing are just that - still playing, as in people that just happened to have not stopped playing NS since 07.

Our lifeline at this point is literally a Reddit post about NS that happens to make it to the front page.  And the overwhelming majority of people that register on Taijitu from those Reddit posts never make a single post on the forum.  Not even for Citizenship.

This is why we have the environment we do.  Taijitu had turned less and less from a government game, and more and more into a secretive club.  No new laws have been made in God knows how long, and no new members have joined in months, and not countibg Orri, since I came.

If we want to grow up, we need to actually grow up.  NationStates was a great founding point of the forum, but we have moved past it, and there is overwhelming evidence for so.

It's you mention this, because I found out about NS because a random guy on a YouTube video's comment section I was watching was talking about it. I joined in NS and just so happened to get your telegram out of hundreds of other telegrams. Though I don't think this board really resembles NS at all. Most of the board has actually nothing to do with NS, the world building says you don't have to use your NS state name and not use NS population or economy. The general feel of the place is completely absent of NS. The only place I ever see NS mentioned is in your militia and older Ecclesia threads. Whether this is appropriate or not is up to speculation, but as I see it, it looks like NS and this board is trying hard to be two seperate things while being bound by the game's rules. Although, if Taijitu breaks off from NS, what will happen to the militia act?

[AwesomeSaucer]

It's you mention this, because I found out about NS because a random guy on a YouTube video's comment section I was watching was talking about it. I joined in NS and just so happened to get your telegram out of hundreds of other telegrams. Though I don't think this board really resembles NS at all. Most of the board has actually nothing to do with NS, the world building says you don't have to use your NS state name and not use NS population or economy. The general feel of the place is completely absent of NS. The only place I ever see NS mentioned is in your militia and older Ecclesia threads. Whether this is appropriate or not is up to speculation, but as I see it, it looks like NS and this board is trying hard to be two seperate things while being bound by the game's rules. Although, if Taijitu breaks off from NS, what will happen to the militia act?

Lol, I actually found NS through the same way!  Out of curiosity, was it AlternateHistoryHub?

You're completely right; Taijitu on itself is almost devoid of NS.  However, you do have to be in NS to become a citizen, and NS is literally the only way Taijitu is advertised.  That's my problem: not enough people come onto NS, and therefore onto Taijitu.

[Rapture]

I believe that Taijitu needs a better Calander. I propose a heavily modified version of thehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tranquility_Calendar. Perhaps we could name the months after Taijituan revolutionaries. I also believe we need a standardized font for communication. I propose the Junicode font family. We should also standardize to using the metric system and weather or not 1000MB should = 1GB or if 1024MB should equal a GB.

[Sovereign Dixie]

First off, thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts in such detail with us. Also, welcome! I apologise for the late reply to your post but last night when I read it I simply did not have the mental reserves to give it the attention it deserved.

Hello everyone. I know I am new here (and by new I mean this is my third post, my only others being getting citizenship and introductions), but please hear me out and consider what I have to say. I am not sure exactly what order I want to put my thoughts in and I'm not really knowledgable in the specifics of politics, and often it will seem like I am rambling on, but everything I say here has a point to it, which will ultimately lead directly into the core of this topic, and so I really fell that I need to say what is on my mind. Remember that is all the perspective of one guy looking from the outside and taking a quick look at everything.
  First, I am making it clear now that when I say "you" I am talking about "all of you here within this thread and those of you who have been actively RPing or GPing for the longest out of all of the citizens(basically long time members). That's right, THIS POST IS FOR ALL OF YOU, ahhh...excuse my caps . Since I am new here I can not possibly assume I can tell you how to run your region or your board, I simply wish you take what I have to say into consideration when deciding on whether or not to scrap the government and what to do thereafter. I'll be upfront and honest though, I don't really care about the specifics of what is going to happen or how anything is going to change, but I always hate seeing the destruction of a community and the people within it.
    I would like to address that not many people who are active citizens address their thoughts or wants publicly within these comments, you can look at all of posts within the Ecclesia and you won't find more than three people other than you commenting. It's always you who start and end discussions, and its always you with the post counts ranging in the hundreds(and don't think being here longer has much to do with it). Now look outside the Ecclesia: the general discussion page is filled with all of your faces; the rps and world building is inactive and filled with all of your countries, with some of the regular citizens' countries put on the map but not on the board, many of those rps on the board are incomplete. This very thread, the thread that can literally change the region as we know it forever, and yet it's all you, no one from the outside and no newbie with a fresh mind, just you here, as usual. As I write this, I'm the only one new citizen to speak my mind. Now look at the greetings board. There are so many new people being introduced into Taijitu, and yet so many don't post anything, me included of course. Why is it that so many people join in the boards but then rarely participate? I think I see a few reasons:

Being new has nothing to do with it, your opinion is just as valid as that of anyone else and is most welcome! One thing to keep in mind is the fact that this region has been around for almost ten years. So of course over that period of time one tends to accumulate a few posts Even in times when we have a lot of citizen participation on the forums most conversation has tended to be between those of us who have been around longer. This sort of holds true for most regions though to be honest with you. Most people who "play" NS just don't "do" forums. Those who do will come on, and do their thing and eventually end up being one of the ones you see posting all of the time lol

   1. also mentioned by a lot of you, the place used to be a ghost board...perhaps people were scared by the inactivity? No there is a bit of activity recently, enough to look like a regular board, the problem is is that this board has a population of around 400(one of you mentioned some point in time the pop was between 350 and 500 or something like that), and an amount of about 7 who get daily sunlight.

Elu addressed this, and I agree with his reply on this part. The disparity between regional population and forum activity is just the nature of the beast. We've tried various initiatives to spur forum activity in the past with varied results.

   2. The atmosphere around here fells too stuffy/ preppy/ absolutely suffocating while everyone is laughing their butts off. Now don't get me wrong, you all seem like nice people, and the way you all carried out conversations and deal with problems is more civilized than most boards, of course this doesn't apply to everyone but I haven't known you for long. The thing is is that while all of you are having fun and giggling, well, your having fun and giggling because you all have been here so long, you all know each other and you all know the story, but to me and to anyone else who strolls in, all they see is a bunch of laughing people sitting and eating around a moldy table in an abonded Castle(because admit it, your the only ones really here, and your decor is old and unrefined). Also you see all this sillyness, like kittens and such and really silly discussions and then you look at the other posts and you get an array of serious and heavy matters, like "getting activity back", or " changing the entire Taijitu government", and amongst this you still see sarcasm and jokes lying around. I know you all like being funny, but half your threads are serious matters that need to be taken completely seriously. It makes you all look immature, look you don't really care, but perhaps it was because of this next issue.

  Old and unrefined decor. Heh. You shoudla seen the forums a couple of years ago   In any event I can really only speak for myself on this one. I don't tend to be the silliest really, but I do tend to be the one to slip in sarcasm into nearly everything I post because that's indeed who I am. Even in RL. This is a game, and I do my damndest to remember that and treat it accordingly. If nothing else I would say that many tend to take this too seriously (myself included at times but I try to catch myself and just.. stop doing that). I tend to feel like the region has largely lost its sense of humour in any real and meaningful way. I mean sure as you said, we've got kittens out the arse (well.. not literally... that would be rather unpleasant for both us and the feline in question) but as you said, it is really "stuffy". 

  As for looking immature or things needing to be taken more seriously... once more I'll agree with Elu on that one.

  3. being too indulged in this fakery. I mean this in two ways, one of which is the fact that before now you all ignored this issue which was apparent from the start, it was always "Jerry left, we need him back, the place just isn't the same", " hey, Jerry's back, I am so glad", "where is all the other members who don't participate", " what do you mean, this is such an egalitarian region the only people who don't participate are those who left and although that is sad, look, we got Jerry and Tom and Lisa, the whole crew, oh look Timmy has been here half a year isn't that fantastic ". The other fakery was that you all try so hard too be funny within a role that yourself has set to bet a serious duty, people like consistency, either be serious within a serious duty, or be funny within a satirical role, mixing the two don't work, yet you all insist your the great elders of the nation, but you act like the joker while you have a tragic backstory, its uncanny.

Well... we dont really try to deliver any specific type of "performance" just as a person has different moods and fluctuating and evolving opinions, so do we. Though there is merit in what you say in regards to sometimes it is definitely best to view the cup as half full.

   4. Jerks. It's doesn't need to be said that jerks will make people leave in an instant, we already see Myr leave because of jerks, and the thing is is that when I first looked at some of the posts, they seemed quite jerkish(if that's a word), I could tell the difference because I use dry humour a lot around my friend, but those not expecting it or those not accustomed to it may see it as unfriendly activity, especially if they don't bother to read the names of the posters.
   You might ask, what is the relevance in this, well here is the revelance: How does a direct democracy work if no one is being direct? How does a representative democracy work if no one is represented? How does a country work if the people don't exist? It doesn't. And that is because the only ones here are you. You all see yourself, you hear yourself, and you agree with your yourself. Because there is noone but yourself. You all WANT WHAT YOU WANT, but every successful country runs on WHAT THE PEOPLE UNDER YOU WANT, and honestly your not even doing the former correctly. If you want simply what you want then nothing good will come of it. You need to see what you HAVE(which I have showed you in the third paragraph and bullet point of this rant), then you decide what you want the RESULT to look like. Then you decide what NEEDS to happen, and if you CAN FIT IN what you WANT to happen. or lack thereof depending on if the situation right now is what one of you had always envisioned the place to be. As for the latter, you can't keep being so closed minded, only a few of you have asked what the others think or want. You can't make an active board unless your active with everyone, no style of government changes that fact. Before you all consider what type of gov or what type of leadership, really look at everything and everyone, before you start disagreements and heavy stuff starts to fill the board(though its a bit too late for that). Everyone has something different they want. But was is truly needed never changes, so you all shouldn't be proposing what you want or don't want for this region, but what this region needs. Haven't you ever heard the expression, "It's not the solution Taijitu wants, it's the solution Taijitu needs.

Well, in all fairness I don't think any of us are under the illusion that we're ruling some grandiose sprawling empire lol As for doing the will of the people, well, we make sure they know there's a forum here for them to come and vote and make their voice heard and be counted. Whether they take advantage of that, as you have, is entirely up to them and something that can't be forced.

I don't think anyone here is pushing for something merely because they "want" it. We all feel that what we're advocating is for the ultimate good of the region (I hope).