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Author Topic: Consultative Poll: Legislature Membership  (Read 9269 times)

Offline Gulliver

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Re: Consultative Poll: Legislature Membership
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2015, 10:43:48 AM »
Again, this all still seems to me like a solution in search a problem. I still have not seen a concrete example of the issue introducing a quorum of some sort is meant to solve. There's been some mention of people just showing up to vote without reading the proposal, but a quorum would not address that in anyway. Quorum just means enough people have to vote for it to be valid, not that any of the people voting have to particularly care.

Offline Zaradai

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Re: Consultative Poll: Legislature Membership
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2015, 12:17:07 PM »
Again, this all still seems to me like a solution in search a problem. I still have not seen a concrete example of the issue introducing a quorum of some sort is meant to solve. There's been some mention of people just showing up to vote without reading the proposal, but a quorum would not address that in anyway. Quorum just means enough people have to vote for it to be valid, not that any of the people voting have to particularly care.


Hopefully, this example will clear up any confusion. This is how I interpreted the qourum process.

Without qourum: Group A has received notice of an issue, and decide to discuss on it immediately. After seven days of the discussion, they have formed the options available for voting for. Group B has just walked in, they have been missing in the wilderness for months. They groggily pass by group A. They are too tired to listen to what they are saying and obviously just don't have the time to deal with it.They randomly push a button and quickly leave, making sure not to make eye contact with group A. Group C are skecthy individuals who all joined at once. They pack around the voting booth, trying to decide which course of action would be best to troll group A. Their employer laughs as he knows the vote will turn in his favor. Vote ends. As group A look at the votes, they do not realize what has just transpired.

With qourum: qourum day comes and everyone is given an idea of what the vote will be on. People who would like to vote would say so now, those who would not like to vote would say so now. Group A is decided, and everyone starts discussing. Vote time. Group A puts in votes. Group B lazily tries to walk in to the voting booth, but is stopped immediately. Group C didn't even make it past the legislative gates.



It's honestly more of a precaution than a solution to a problem. There wasn't a problem because the board was so inactive; But as soon as more start contributing to the Ecclesia, we are going to need to make sure we regulate it in some way so that those who like to walk into countries forums and screw and twist the country, can not simply waltz straight into our voting booths.
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Offline Of The US

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Re: Consultative Poll: Legislature Membership
« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2015, 02:17:14 AM »
All of you keep saying that word, but I do not think it means what you think it means.

Quorum
« Last Edit: December 13, 2015, 02:22:57 AM by Of The US »
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Offline AwesomeSaucer

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Re: Re: Consultative Poll: Legislature Membership
« Reply #18 on: December 13, 2015, 02:29:24 AM »
All of you keep saying that word, but I do not think it means what you think it means.

Quorum
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Offline Zaradai

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Re: Consultative Poll: Legislature Membership
« Reply #19 on: December 13, 2015, 02:48:31 AM »
All of you keep saying that word, but I do not think it means what you think it means.

Quorum

Definitions, who needs them? :P ... By the way, I am about certain the second definition works.
Seriously, people put stuff in this cramped box...

Offline Of The US

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Re: Consultative Poll: Legislature Membership
« Reply #20 on: December 13, 2015, 04:26:11 PM »
All of you keep saying that word, but I do not think it means what you think it means.

Quorum

Definitions, who needs them? :P ... By the way, I am about certain the second definition works.


If you use the second definition it does not make for a good, or even fair voting system.
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Offline Wast

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Re: Consultative Poll: Legislature Membership
« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2015, 07:15:34 AM »
It's honestly more of a precaution than a solution to a problem. There wasn't a problem because the board was so inactive; But as soon as more start contributing to the Ecclesia, we are going to need to make sure we regulate it in some way so that those who like to walk into countries forums and screw and twist the country, can not simply waltz straight into our voting booths.

My preference would be to have no quorum and introduce one if it becomes necessary. I think it is a mistake to design a system in which legislators are required to be very active, because the regional government will not have much need to legislate except to update its own procedures. A quorum system is going to require laws to be passed with a certain threshold of members, which means either (a) making the legislature have few members compared to citizens or (b) making the threshold very low.

Offline Of The US

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Re: Consultative Poll: Legislature Membership
« Reply #22 on: December 14, 2015, 05:58:00 PM »
It's honestly more of a precaution than a solution to a problem. There wasn't a problem because the board was so inactive; But as soon as more start contributing to the Ecclesia, we are going to need to make sure we regulate it in some way so that those who like to walk into countries forums and screw and twist the country, can not simply waltz straight into our voting booths.

My preference would be to have no quorum and introduce one if it becomes necessary. I think it is a mistake to design a system in which legislators are required to be very active, because the regional government will not have much need to legislate except to update its own procedures. A quorum system is going to require laws to be passed with a certain threshold of members, which means either (a) making the legislature have few members compared to citizens or (b) making the threshold very low.


This adequately explains my issues with that system
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Offline Khem

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Re: Consultative Poll: Legislature Membership
« Reply #23 on: December 14, 2015, 07:36:31 PM »
So we continue to do nothing?

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Offline Bustos

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Re: Consultative Poll: Legislature Membership
« Reply #24 on: December 14, 2015, 07:40:08 PM »
One can always put forth a proposal to remove inactive members of leadership.

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Offline Wast

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Re: Consultative Poll: Legislature Membership
« Reply #25 on: December 14, 2015, 08:36:59 PM »
The quorum discussion is a bit of a distraction, I think. It's entirely dependent on the structure of the legislature itself and is a detail that can be worked out afterwards.

Offline Khem

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Re: Consultative Poll: Legislature Membership
« Reply #26 on: December 14, 2015, 11:03:31 PM »
I feel we are at an impasse.

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Offline Of The US

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Re: Consultative Poll: Legislature Membership
« Reply #27 on: December 15, 2015, 04:53:41 AM »
I feel we are focusing too much on how voting works instead of making a new government first, the voting method will fall into place after that.
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Offline Gulliver

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Re: Consultative Poll: Legislature Membership
« Reply #28 on: December 15, 2015, 02:41:22 PM »
I think it would be prudent to open a separate topic and poll for the issue of "quorum", whatever it's being used to referred to at this point, but I'm uncertain what the options would be.

Offline Eluvatar

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Re: Consultative Poll: Legislature Membership
« Reply #29 on: January 02, 2016, 01:15:24 AM »
So...

Is that 10:9 in favor of a legislature that votes on new members or 10:9 in favor of a legislature that takes 2 applications that get more-or-less automatically approved to join?
                                 
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