Redefining "Observer" status

[Delfos]

ooc:i thought the vote on the expulsion of DSA had failed and he is a current member of IPO. At least the sanctions did:
For
Greater Canadian Empire Inglo-Scotia Loyan   3 27.3%
Against
Cantr Capconia Osamafune Pachamama Varkour Xyrael   6 54.5%

he wants to talk about stuff, sure go ahead, i never stopped him, but he wanted Observers to have more "rights" than the ones they have, and i said, make a proposal to legislate and the bill might pass. Otherwise everything will continue as it is. And as you can see, the discussion clearly parted both ways, saying he can't or he could do stuff during our meetings. I can't decide that for myself, that's why i asked him for a good proposal, otherwise there wouldn't be any change. Guess what, he ran away. No proposal have appeared yet, until then, this matter is definitely closed to me./ooc

ooc2: btw, look who voted in For...do you notice anything? All who did vote For are PI members, all who didn't aren't. That's what i meant with peers holding the neutrality of this organization. This is a direct proof against those who say we favor PI.

[Cantr]

Yes, the vote failed, but Loyan attempted to expel the DSA without a vote.  And Loyan similarly revoked Rabarac's right to deliberate in the IPO without vote.  The difference being that people cared about the DSA being expelled and did not care about Rabarac being silenced.

[Pachamama]

People did care. You just choose to ignore this.
Xyrael was bringing it up and I was trying to assist you.
If you had played your hand well you had tried to get these who would be willing to support you further on your side and have them act in your interests.
Diplomacy is a bit more complex than walking in and saying "I feel left out, do something "
Would have made a nice RP and helped to bring your nation in.
Still I can't shake the feeling that you never wanted this to work out.

[Pachamama]

IP
"If the current administrator would allow me I may go to Rabarac and have a talk with their ministry of foreign affairs. Maybe there is still a change to recover this situation."

[Delfos]

ic: I see no way to stop you, not that i don't want you to go, but you're really free to do it. There are no rights loss from a forfeit, he's free to become a member or observer again, and if he wants Observer status to be redefined then he will have to show proof Observers can really become more active. His show of diplomacy was quite rude, and frankly it haven't made me change my view of our path. Well, good luck.

[Rabarac]

no, anyone can propose anything. As you, if you had the attention, would see, I proposed stuff during Loyan administration, he did the same with mine, anyone can do it, even you by making this topic of discussion as you can see. The Administrator has no power regarding the limits of obligations of each nation. This was already discussed.
You didn't make any good offer, as i said i wouldn't do the dirty work for you, if you wanted something done just proposed to me and i would publish the proposal for the application of the bill. Instead, you just followed Xyraeli lead to degrade the image of our organization without any base of truth, even Cantr said, most of yours and Xyraeli accusations are inapplicable from the moment we failed all proposals regarding aiding PI. As far as i know, the Peace forces are still in New Delfos, and the Canadian freighters are still there too.

I friggin' proposed to be allowed to post in the IPO posts, that is all!  What dirty work were you asking from me?  You were the one who turned this into a badgering fest about why I'm not a member and how much my 'proposal' wasn't good enough, when I hadn't proposed anything officially.  I asked you how I could propose something, if I could have a sympathetic member (i.e. Pacha or Cantr) propose it, seeing as the only rules on the books about observers is that observers are to "observe only," and that was my intention.  If you wanted to say that observers could propose something, you should have made that clear, but instead, you said you saw no way for this proposal to go through, and I asked you about an option, and you didn't reply.  What was I supposed to do?  Sure, now you say you would have done it, but that was not in any of your previous posts.  You said my proposal wasn't good enough, and then said that I should just be a member if I cared so much.  That's hardly what I would call 'interested' in helping observers.  My accusations about wasting resources in meaningless projects like Disease Research, Xyraeli observers, and the worthless human rights bill, none of which is a structure about peace, still stand, and don't try and fool yourself into believing that creating a buffer between Dysanii and GCE benefited anyone but the PI.  Furthermore, if you're watching my News thread, you will see that this is all serving a purpose, so you are right; I have a reason for this not to go through now.  Just to be clear, I told you what I wanted, why, and how I could do it, you said it wasn't good enough and said I should just join.  How did you expect me to respond?  Gah, I'm so sick of defending myself from these ad hominem attacks.  You can believe what you want about what I should have done, but you've got to realize that I don't give a snot about the IPO, personally, I think it's a laughing stock at best.  But I will definitely capitalize on the opportunity to pursue my own RP interests.

[Delfos]

ooc:I didn't read much more from here:

I asked you how I could propose something

I told you to propose something HERE. I wanted you to write a friggin' proposal for a bill about Observer Status, which is good enough we would do a Poll about it. I don't care anymore, and as you can see, almost no one was against Observers being active in the damn discussions. Now stop filling this topic with nonsense and speak with the Terrangarian guy.

[Cantr]

Delfos, you should probably read the rest.

[Delfos]

I knew everything he said. No news.
Just clearing that, if i said this wasn't going through it was an OOC, or maybe not, but yet it was a comment to the lack of fine proposal i requested in my first post. And from the beginning you made comments that made me and others believe your were only here to destabilize, it was prooved with just a small pressure about something you wanted but you couldn't have because you insisted to be an Observer, and your response was to leave and insult it. You know what i said Rabarac? Thank god he left. In fact, we don't need you. I thought maybe you could change something in IPO, but no, you just want to argue about worthless stuff. If you thought you could do better, why didn't you applied for membership and to run as administrator? If you think you have a more effective way, you would probably win the bloody elections, or maybe not.
Don't try to fool kids in a kids' game, that's my advice.

[Cantr]

If he considers an organization like the IPO to be inherently misguided, why on Earth would he attempt to lead it?

[Delfos]

So if there's something inherently misguided we cannot change it? Oh well, maybe you're right, look at the mess in Iraq.

[Cantr]

But if the organization in and of itself is inherently misguided, the only way to change it would be to dismantle it.

[Pachamama]

The problem with this organization is that we are not misguided, we are unguided.
we build this from the roof down, which any architect can tell you is not the best idea.
So I have asked Rabarac IP to come over and talk to his government about this incident, but so far I got no answer.
I must say that he gave me a good platform to start with this in his news thread. It seems his "observer" to IPO did not fully act in the knowledge of his superiors and with the will of his government.
So I will wait for an RP reaction and I am also working on a solution to our problems that I already have shown Delfos.
But please be patient.

[Cantr]

I never said I thought it was misguided.  After all, I'm a part of it.

[Rabarac]

I knew everything he said. No news.
Just clearing that, if i said this wasn't going through it was an OOC, or maybe not, but yet it was a comment to the lack of fine proposal i requested in my first post. And from the beginning you made comments that made me and others believe your were only here to destabilize, it was prooved with just a small pressure about something you wanted but you couldn't have because you insisted to be an Observer, and your response was to leave and insult it. You know what i said Rabarac? Thank god he left. In fact, we don't need you. I thought maybe you could change something in IPO, but no, you just want to argue about worthless stuff. If you thought you could do better, why didn't you applied for membership and to run as administrator? If you think you have a more effective way, you would probably win the bloody elections, or maybe not.
Don't try to fool kids in a kids' game, that's my advice.

OOC:
Delfos, I apologize, I didn't mean to get a vitriolic response out of you.  I do apologize to everyone for writing my last response when I was rather stressed out about a number of things, and putting in a bunch of emotion that was inappropriate.  But I must say, I never stooped to the level of insulting players personally.  A kids' game, indeed.

IC:

To: International Peace Organization
From: Karina Dalma, Chief Executive Officer and Chairwoman of the Board of Directors of the Glorious Conglomerate of Kathria
-------------------------------
It has come to my attention that the acts of a rogue Rabaraci diplomat has created a considerable destabilization of relations between the noble IPO and the Colonial Division of the Glorious Conglomerate.  The Board has unanimously decided to seize temporary control of the Foreign Advocate's Office of the Rabaraci Colony.  I shall personally administer to the Foreign Affairs of Rabarac until this and any other detrimental acts have been rectified.  We will happily receive the representative from Terrangar and hope to achieve peace and prosperity with the IPO in the future.  I again apologize for the actions of Mr. Brahms, and assure you that he is currently being investigated for connections with a growing secret anarchist cabal that is threatening the security of the colony.  The truth is, Rabarac needs the IPO, as these forces are daily plotting to revolt against the rightful Kathrian rule.  We look forward to the continuing prosperity of the Organization and hope that we can benefit from this arrangement in the future.