Redefining "Observer" status

[Delfos]

Let Rabarac have a shot, we can all argue about this attempt of changing the status.

[Cantr]

Besides, as Myroria has proven, you can't actually stop someone from being a part of these discussions.  It can only be easier to participate when you don't have to use a megaphone from street level.

[Pachamama]

Besides, as Myroria has proven, you can't actually stop someone from being a part of these discussions.  It can only be easier to participate when you don't have to use a megaphone from street level.

Looks out at the man standing in the street yelling trough a megaphone while being draped in a Myrorian flag.
"Agreed but it is so much more fun"

[Delfos]

specially when we are in this terrangar tall building...with sound-proof.

[Pachamama]

Looks up in shock. "Didn't anybody tell him that those windows are soundproof.?"

O.K. I am getting carried away with silliness here sorry

[Rabarac]

My point is that the current observer status is completely useless; why pay the expenses of continuing to send a delegation when we can simply find the details of the deliberations in the annual report online?  There is no distinction between observer and non-member.  Rabarac is surrounded by many IPO members, and has military, diplomatic, and economic relations with many more members, who are affected by the resolutions passed.  We cannot pretend that IPO does not affect those nations who are not members, for it does.  Rabarac has a vested interest in the decisions of the IPO, but not at the expense of deferring to the authority of any supranational organization with, currently, extremely vague goals and methods.  Improving observer status would allow the concerns of nations to be heard by the IPO body, while maintaining a nation's sovereign decision to abstain from the IPO itself.

This is not a discussion of the legitimacy of a nation's decision to not be in the IPO; if that decision is marginalized or looked down on, if a nation is condemned, openly or internally, for remaining outside the IPO, then the whole purpose of the IPO will be subverted.  IPO is not an elitist club of nations who can use their unified clout to bully nations into joining or face complete isolation.  But this is not the discussion.

Clearly we can all see that IPO's actions do affect non-member nations, if not directly, then still indirectly and powerfully.  It would be undemocratic to not allow those nations who choose to not be full members for whatever reasons to have their concerns heard in the deliberation process.  I will gladly author a resolution if there is a member nation who would propose it.  *Looks to Cantr.*

OOC:  This is how observer nations work in the UN, for similar reasons, I imagine.  They can participate in deliberations, but not vote.

[Delfos]

But you have a choice, member, observer or none of above. If you wish so much to participate, why don't you become a member?
I see what you want, but I yet do not see an effective way to propose a bill.

[Xyrael]

This is not a discussion of the legitimacy of a nation's decision to not be in the IPO; if that decision is marginalized or looked down on, if a nation is condemned, openly or internally, for remaining outside the IPO, then the whole purpose of the IPO will be subverted.  IPO is not an elitist club of nations who can use their unified clout to bully nations into joining or face complete isolation.

Sir, this is indeed the discussion. I thank you for saying what these buffoons, paranoid beyond reason, cannot. Who honestly cares if there are spies within our walls. We are a peace organization, is there suddenly something we must hide from the Public, is peace that fragile? The actions of the IPO to date are NOT consistent with the ideals and beliefs upon which she was founded! This Organization is slowly become more and more an alliance of convenience that accomplishes little beyond talk! If all we want to do is talk, then Observer states should do so as well. How can we adequately create world peace without listening to the voices of the world?

The very notion that Loyan, a member of the PI, initially doctored this article, leads the Illuminate to believe that he intended it as a tool to manipulate this body for his own personal agenda. When one can not speak, then one can not object. We must allow opinion, without this the IPO is nothing more than a dictatorship of many.

[Xyrael]

But you have a choice, member, observer or none of above. If you wish so much to participate, why don't you become a member?
I see what you want, but I yet do not see an effective way to propose a bill.

New Delfos, so you are along the policy of "If you can't beat us, join us"? Is this not the kind of elitist policy which encourages dissparities between the nations of the world and further leads to war? What if a member of the IPO objected to the membership of Rabarac, and he was allowed only observer status, would one nations objection be enough to quiet the opinion of another? Is that democracy??

[Delfos]

ooc: nice try

ic: This is a matter of order in the house, if we let anyone in our building there won't be any order, people will sit where they want. We cannot allow that external interests influence our organization, INCLUDING PI! But we do broadcast most of the forums and news, so yes, Observer status is practically useless. We can eliminate that status, but then you would have to leave the building if you are not a member. That's not what we want, we want inclusion, whoever wants, even terrorist groups, can come orderly if attributed the Observer status, to observe civilized nations building world-peace. If you want to build world-peace with us, just join the organization.

If any nation wants to join IPO, there shall be an admission poll.

[Pachamama]

"Honored observer from Rabarac . First I see no reason why non member states should not be allowed to ask questions to the delegates during a meeting. Second may I ask for your reason not to become a member but remain an observer instead?"
Talman Yar looked at the envoy.

[Xyrael]

So, allow the Illuminate to comprehend this. We are allowing them seats so they may watch our elitist body in action without voice or opinion? Are they still allowed free thought? Do they get a concessions stand as well, because the Illuminate was not aware that the forum of politics had become a spectators sport. To dissallow their opinion and force them into compliance is barbaric. Maybe they should write letters, but couldn't they do that themselves from the comfort of their embassy? Couldn't they just watch the news? The impotence of Observer status means that those non-members who are not spoken for will never be spoken for, and this body will NEVER be allowed to hear from those victims of war. How can we send in humanitarian funding to nations we do not allow to speak? Are we to remain quiet when nations go to war with non-members because the non-members have no voice to protest? This body needs to represent the world. If membership is the only way, then the Illuminate is severely disheartened with this organization moreso than it already is.

And should they become a member, they would fall directly under the jurisprudence of our laws and authority, and could in the future be forced to comply with each of them. Should it be voted that an International Police Agency is established, with the authority to free reign over members of the IPO, then this could attack Rabarac's sovereign right to police his own people as he pleases according to his laws, and not our own. Perhaps his nation is, like the Illuminate, unsure of the true intent of this Organization.

[Rabarac]

If you want to build world-peace with us, just join the organization

Build world peace?  This organization has amassed and trained intervention forces and brought to bear hard consequences for one side of a conflict, while blindly looking away from the other nation involved in war, a clear silent consent and justification of their decision to wage reactionary war.  Now they are wasting time and resources investigating the nuclear or chemical weapons of sovereign nations which have not been used in recent history, or sending groups to Xyraeli's colonies, or establishing disease research centers, all of which must be funded from sovereign nations and their citizens, who are now resources for the IPO's goals.  You may talk about furthering human rights, but what the IPO has done is objectified human beings into resources and statistics.  Moreover, since the creation of the IPO and through its actions, the world has come much farther from peace than it began!  How dare you demand that Rabarac join a wayward organization with no foreseeable benefit to the citizens of Rabarac, an organization which robbed Rabarac of her ability to negotiate fairly with her neighbors and military, diplomatic, and trade partners in the first place?  This is tyranny, and Rabarac will no longer have any part of it if there is no sufficient observer status.  Good day, delegates.

[Pachamama]

"Honored Xyraeli delegate" Yar was getting disgusted at the permanent ranting of the Xyraeli man.
"If you could stop you fiery speech of righteous anger and take a few steps back with us maybe you might see that i have already addressed this problem. I have proposed that non members may speak in meetings and ask questions. But allowing them to vote they should become full members. For the simple reason that you become a member of this organization if you are willing to submit yourself to our goals. It should have been clear from the beginning. What good I ask you is if we allow anyone to speak. Even those who are doing so only to attack our efforts, stall our actions and try to sink this organization"

"We already have you for this" he added in his mind.

"By joining this organization we can say that those nations are willing to work with us and not just vote to sink this ship. It needs dedication for peace. If you do not have the dedication to join our effort what good is it going to do?"

[Pachamama]

"Rabarac delegate. Did you come here in hopes to bring this organisation to it's downfall"
Yar had stood up.
"What was your reason for coming here. I have heard all of your reasons you are against us. You want to talk? Then do so. State your opinion and tell us what we could do better. What should we change and how should we address, yes solve the problems you are talking about."


"There must be limit to the shit we are going to take" Yar thought.