IPO Forum - Human Rights

[Cantr]

Naturally some human rights are forfeit to criminals.

The main problem with the Hobbes philosophy is the justice system.  Couldn't a man be imprisoned or executed unlawfully by a corrupt official who chooses to have him imprisoned/executed because, say, he has brown hair?  I would move that no sentence beyond temporary incarceration may be carried out by the government until a full investigation has been completed, and that the investigators not be answerable to local governors.

[Delfos]

So you are saying that criminals have no human rights? I'm going to battle against that.

[Union]

ooc: You have to excuse Delfos, he thinks "rehabilitation" is the best thing to do with a heartless killer who rapes multiply young girls and drowns them in a barrel of leech infested sewage water.

[Myroria]

The right to vote is in no way a human right. This is just another reason for Myroria not to join this nanny-state organization, if it's declared one. Just saying.

[Delfos]

  this is a gathered list, not a final list. And nice try btw. Are you going to stand outside IPO building screaming through megaphone?

[Myroria]

I see overall that the IPO infringes on the sovereignties of individual nations. I will complain about this.

[Delfos]

make an OOC thread if you want to discuss this. I'm looking forward. And yes, most of those kind of rights are being discussed as impossible to be achieved. If you payed any attention to the topics drawn from discussion you would understand.

[Feniexia]

Feniexia will not agree to this human rights. We have our own definition of human rights, and we will not allow non-Feniexians to mess with our basic laws.

[Khem]

since the right to live is your own, you can put an end to it by your own, you can't be penalized for violating your own right, unless you violate someone else. The Right of Choice is too ambiguous, what are the limits of this? Is this to be held politically, culturally, socially, economically, what?

the right to choose for their own body.
the right to life is too vague it can be considered in violation when someone lights a cigarette or works in a factory with harmful chemicals. no this is far too easily exploited.

[Delfos]

Attention all IPO Delegates, the Gathered List has been modified, please redirect your protests and discussion accordingly the current Gathered List:

Gathered List:
01-right of Liberty (too vague?)
Liberty is vague, but should be part of this list, as a mark of civilized societies, it already implies 'freedom of conscience', we should describe this kind of rights as vague, as a guide of rights to come in the future. Although, suppressed by other elementary rights, such as the right to freedom of though and whatever, the prohibition of slavery and other restraining actions.

02-right of Freedom of Conscience
Suppressed by a more elementary right.

03-right to Dignity
From the moment you are born to the moment you die, you have the right to live in dignity. This means that any human has the same dignity as any other, and every human must respect someone else's dignity, because if we are disgraced by someone else, that someone is taking our right to be a respectful human being.

04-right to Privacy
Some say even the righteous governments have to violate privacy for the security of the nation. Because of this and other issues, we are willing to suppress this right from the human rights bill.

05-right to Life
Probably one of the most important rights of this bill. This right means that nobody can take anyone else's life away without justification. This justification can only be applied by national constitutional laws.
(Against the will of many delfian protesters and politicians, this point will allow the death penalty and the right to bear arms of some of the nations, but this rights must be in their constitution to proove the justification asked as national constitutional law.)

06-right of Choice
This right prevents any human to suppress any other's will without justification**. Any human has the right to choose their future, their path, their appearance, their sexual partner, their supporting club, among many other choices. Although, suppressed by the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion.

07-right to Property *
Many of the governments think this right can only be implied by a national constitution. Some countries give their own property to their civilians. If you think this right shouldn't be silenced, please protest.

08-right to Food
Suppressed by a more elementary right.

09-right to Water
Suppressed by a more elementary right.

10-right to Shelter
Being almost impossible to be controlled, the government cannot be forced to give shelter to anyone. As expressed by the Ipod of Cantr, if nature allows, people may not have shelter. So it will be very difficult to impose this right.

11-right to Justice
Suppressed for the right to a fair trial. (19)

12-right to Health-care
Protest against taking away this right if you feel that, if the person doesn't have access to health care, governmental/national entities must intervene and give the requested Health Care.

13-right to Vote (suppressed by right 06?)
Suppressed by a more elementary right.

14-right to Bear Arms *
Suppressed for Right of Protection (17)

15-right of Self-Defense (suppress right 14?)
Suppressed for Right of Protection (17)

16-right of Choice of Path (suppressed by right 06?)
Suppressed by a more elementary right.

17-right of Protection (suppress right 15?)
Protest against taking away this right if you feel that, if the person doesn't have protection against human or other entities, humans must be protected by the government and/or national security entities as a right.

18-right for Food and Water.
As basic properties of survival. A government or collective cannot hide or remove such resources from their population, this will prevent the illicit property of goods during any natural or human-made events that causes starving or dries.

19-right for a Fair Trial
Every human has the right for a fair trial, including the right to a public hearing before an independent and impartial tribunal within reasonable time, the presumption of innocence, and other minimum rights for those charged in a criminal case.

20-prohibition of torture
This prohibits torture, and "inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment". There are no exceptions or limitations on this right.
This provision usually applies, apart from torture, to cases of severe police violence and poor conditions in detention.
Also this, if violated, violates the 'right to dignity'.

21-prohibition of slavery
This prohibits slavery and forced labour, but excepted from this prohibitions are conscription, national service, prison labour, service exacted in cases of emergency or calamity, and "normal civic obligations".

22-no punishment without law
Prohibits the retrospective criminalisation of acts and omissions. No person may be punished for an act that was not a criminal offence at the time of its commission. The article states that a criminal offence is one under either national or international law, which would permit a party to prosecute someone for a crime which was not illegal under their domestic law at the time, so long as it was prohibited by (possibly customary) international law. This also prohibits a heavier penalty being imposed than was applicable at the time when the criminal act was committed.

23-right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion
This provides a right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion. This includes the freedom to change a religion or belief, and to manifest a religion or belief in worship, teaching, practice and observance, subject to certain restrictions that are in accordance with law and necessary in a civilized society.

24-prohibition of discrimination
This prohibition is broad in some ways, and narrow in others. On the one hand, the article protects against discrimination based on any of a wide range of grounds. The article provides a list of such grounds, including sex, race, colour, language, religion and several other criteria, and most significantly providing that this list is non-exhaustive.

[Pachamama]

this is a gathered list, not a final list. And nice try btw. Are you going to stand outside IPO building screaming through megaphone?

 

Uuhm, if it is the IPO building in Terrangar he has the right to do this.
Also we could charge him with disrupting public order.
If a citizen files a complaint or he interferes with traffic.

[Delfos]

this is a gathered list, not a final list. And nice try btw. Are you going to stand outside IPO building screaming through megaphone?

 

Uuhm, if it is the IPO building in Terrangar he has the right to do this.
Also we could charge him with disrupting public order.
If a citizen files a complaint or he interferes with traffic.

It was a remark to this:

OOC: Just assume I'm doing this over some speakerphone or something. This way it will be easier to respond to the discussion.

"I will not compromise. I bought Southern Ryazania legitimately and fairly from Dysanii. Besides, isn't the comfort of knowing neither of our people will be ravaged by war enough of an incentive to allow a little 'imperialism'?"

[Delfos]

18-right for Food and Water.
As basic properties of survival. A government or collective cannot hide or remove such resources from their population, this will prevent the illicit property of goods during any natural or human-made events that causes starving or dries.

Agreeing to revise this right, and starting with "illicit property of goods" and transforming it into "illicit property of natural goods", probably erasing the rest of the sentence, and prevents private groups to take over more than 50% of the natural resource in question. This is applied to natural goods, hunting and fishing are a natural gathering of food, private groups or individuals cannot take away more than 50% of such resource in order to sustain the rest of the population...

ooc: I think I'm lost...where did i go wrong? :S I think it became too extreme, very environmentalist.

[Cantr]

OOC: I'm okay with environmentalism.  Besides, this isn't "we're all going to live in tee-pees" environmentalism.  This is "Earth belongs to the people who live on it, not the people who buy it" environmentalism.  Fact is, if everything can be owned, than everything can be controlled by whoever has more money, and then we get an oligarchy that can force whatever the heck it wants on the world for the simple reason that it owns what they produce.  If the people are willing to walk to the stream and fill the pitcher, or grab their bow and shoot the deer, they've earned their keep just like the guy who goes to work in the factory.

[Delfos]

that0's what i want to implement with this right, they cannot own the majority of the natural resources of food and water, since they are basic for the survival of humanity. They cannot own a natural fountain, they can extract water from it, but they have to leave 50% or more than 50% to the wilderness and population, same goes to food, as explained, for hunting, since primitive times, hunting and fishing have been the most basic gather of food. But it goes another way for agriculture, since you need to own a field and care for it, it can remain private property.