Debate on Alia's Policies

[Aquatoria]

I have noticed that I and probably others are biased about our characters because they are an extension of ourselves, so I wnat to know what kind of person Empress Alia, the Empress of Canada is, by the view of the world. There are six people who are posting here that will debate her policies. Three are supporters and the other three are opposers. If you are not one of the six, send a PM of your opnion of her policies and they will post it here and we will address it.



This is Empress Alia. She is the only child of Emperor Paul and Empress Selene. She took the throne when she was sixteen after her father was assassinated and she is now nineteen on her way to twenty. She may be ruthless, but her intentions are for the good of the country. She is not a supporter of a maritime colonial empire unlike her father. She however what's to create a federation of imperial dominions on the South Continent and the Empire where the dominions all have a voice.

These are Alia's policies:

Modernized the military
Is in support of a federation of the Canadian Empire and her dominions
The creation of the secret police and it's use
The increase of Canadian power on the continent
Allowing the newly formed Kingdom of Acadia to have self-rule and a small defense force.
The creation of a PI missile defense shield in space

These are the teams

Supporters:
Nathaniel
Emperor Hiendrick
Barakarin

Opposers:
Gallipoli-China
St Oz
Myroria

now let's begin with the Empress Alia's policy of the modernizing the military. We have seen all the new toys that the Canadian military has, such as the Tiger Tank and the new battle armor. So discuss.

[Bara]

OOC: uhh...i kinda of confused...do we like, just talk about it? or do we have to like, RP it.

[Aquatoria]

talk about it.

[Bara]

Oh, ok.

I agree with the Empress missile shield, because, for one, no longer will for innocents be killed under radiation. However, it would be nice if Non-PI members could have access to this shield.

[Emperor Heindrick]

(is this IC or OOC?)

[Myroria]

Dysanii shouldn't be annexed by Canada at all; the DSA is far more a threat.

A secret police force only decreases the level of rights the citizens have. They have a huge tendency to stop playing by the rules a while after they're founded. They'll skip over the little "warrant" part. I dread to see this in any PI nation, but that's probably because myself and SDixie are fairly libertarian. I dislike Feniexia's meritocracy with a passion because merit = birth and birth = money, but that'd a whole other thread.

[Zimmerwald]

OOC: My correspondant's a Gelibolu by birth, Xyraeli by assimilation

IC: One wonders why Myroria is in the PI at all, if it finds its allies' behavior so unsatisfactory.  I kid, of course.  However, I see only naked ambition at work in the effort to create this "Federation."  I forsee aggressive wars to expand this "Federation" should it be created, and the complete destruction of the already precarious balance of power on the American continent.  The way I see it, the extension of Canadian power on this continent can only be concluded by war against the DSA and the Dysanii remnant, something which is simply intolerable for those of us who would prefer peace.

The creation of a secret police can only have one real objective: political repression of those who oppose the other policies that have been outlined by the Empress.

[Myroria]

We find every nation unsatisfactory.

^Ever hear about the survey about the world's food shortage?

The IPO once conducted a survey to see what the populace of Taijitu "Would you please give your honest opinion about solutions to the food shortage in the rest of the world?"

In Gallipoli-China, they didn't know what "food" meant.
In Dysanii, they didn't know what "honest" meant.
In Delfos, they didn't know what "shortage" meant.
In Xyrael, they didn't know what "opinion" meant.
On the American continent, they didn't know what "solution" meant.
In Ozia, they didn't know what "please" meant.
In Myroria, they didn't know what "The rest of the world" meant.

So, to destroy the risk this will be taken for a Bara tangent, the moral of the story is, the Earth, moon, and stars revolve around Myroria.

[Zimmerwald]

OOC: lol. carry on

[Myroria]

Continuing with my stance that annexing Dysanii is harmful:

Myroria, as you know, is both relatively benign towards Dysanii and is very big on national identity on any nation. Thus, we'll never join the IPO and will refuse any PI amendment that infringes on our freedom.

So, we are against Dysanii's annexation by Canada, or let alone Feniexia, who has no claim at all besides that they used to own it (Why don't I move in and take New Delfos or Southern Canada and Northern DSA, I mean, the Pelagian Empire USED to own them!)

Keeping Dysanii intact is a vital part of their national identity. Rather than forcing Dysanii into a union they do not wish to be in, why not put in restrictions against their military? You need not move in and annex their land when a treaty will suffice.

[Delfos]

ooc: I'm a bit confused, are we RPing nazi people from our nations saying we are great or weren't we supposed to discuss about Canada?

ic: Secret Police would prevent emergent dangerous groups to be formed against Canadian Federation.
Allowing the newly formed Kingdom of Acadia to have self-rule and a small defense force would take Canadian responsibility out for nursing and administrating this territory.
Canada won two wars! The Canadian are surely deserve to have more power in that continent than any other!
And finally the missile defense would give Canadians the finest protection and the people would live safe.

[Zimmerwald]

Secret Police would prevent emergent dangerous groups to be formed against Canadian Federation.

Isn't that what regular police are for?  To prevent the rise of dangerous and violent groups, and to control their activities?  Since this is so, why have a secret police?  Why have a group responsible not to the public, not to the Parliament, but only to the Empress?  The secret police is nothing more than a tool for political repression, and a way for Alia to assert her supremacy over the elected Parliament.

Allowing the newly formed Kingdom of Acadia to have self-rule and a small defense force would take Canadian responsibility out for nursing and administrating this territory.

You seem to accept the Kingdom of Acadia as a fact; however, Acadia is not an accomplished fact.  It is not created, it is proposed.  It is not recognized by the international community, and it should remain that way.  Dysanii should not be dismembered to serve Canadian imperialism.

Canada won two wars! The Canadian are surely deserve to have more power in that continent than any other!

Let's not fool ourselves here; Canada would have lost both wars had it not been sucking at the teat of Feniexia, Inglo-Scotia, and Myroria.  By your logic, it should not be Canada that gets to dominate this continent, but that troika.  Needless to say, your logic is wrong.

[Delfos]

ooc: Canada you gave me a hard job, I agree in all points of what ^ he ^ said. Hard to make logic on something I do not believe.

Isn't that what regular police are for?  To prevent the rise of dangerous and violent groups, and to control their activities?  Since this is so, why have a secret police?  Why have a group responsible not to the public, not to the Parliament, but only to the Empress?  The secret police is nothing more than a tool for political repression, and a way for Alia to assert her supremacy over the elected Parliament.

No, Canadian regular police is for public security, secret police is for the federal security, state business. An emergent dangerous group, like an irresponsible Dysaniian wackos wanting to take over Canada, might not be harmful for the public in general, but it will harm the Canadian Federation as a whole, thus harming the population further on. The secret police will act secretly so that this groups won't fake being honest and loyal to the Federation when they are dishonest and hypocritical!

You seem to accept the Kingdom of Acadia as a fact; however, Acadia is not an accomplished fact.  It is not created, it is proposed.  It is not recognized by the international community, and it should remain that way.  Dysanii should not be dismembered to serve Canadian imperialism.

You assume then Canada needs no repair from it's losses after two bloody wars. Dysanii dared to mess with Canada, now he has to pay for his importune! It's only fair that Canada gets the western provinces of Acadia, their people are practically Canadian, they even celebrate some of our holy-days and the gastronomy is basically the same. They won't mind being annexed, specially now they might want to run away from Dysanii that caused them so much pain. We are offering them salvation, a chance to be part of the good side, and the best nation they can be in. They will beg to be part of the Federation!

Let's not fool ourselves here; Canada would have lost both wars had it not been sucking at the teat of Feniexia, Inglo-Scotia, and Myroria.  By your logic, it should not be Canada that gets to dominate this continent, but that troika.  Needless to say, your logic is wrong.

Yes our allies have done a great job, but we were the ones dieing for Canada, we were the ones killing for Canada, we were the ones that won both wars. We deserve to be repay for our losses and the power of the Federation must not be challenged. The Federation is the ultimate power, and we shall flourish our influence in the continent, specially trough economy, expanding our market beyond frontiers. We will be the greatest ally of our friends and the fierce nightmare of our enemies, thus reinforcing the power of our beloved alliance in the continent and the world!

[Aquatoria]

What about the power void on the South Continent? The Democratic States were a powerful country for many years, but then PI helped free the southern states. A war that Canada played a major role. After that war, there was a power void about who will succeed the DSA as the power on the continent. The Inglish spend most of their time locked away on their island and will only come out and play when war threatens their allies. CDixie are becoming strong, but not that strong yet. The DSA has lost two wars in a row and has already started a third. So the only nation with any success on the American continent has been the Canadian Empire. So the Canadian Empire is most likely to fill that power void.

ooc:Greater Canada is becoming a power on the continent because of its allies, but wasn't that how the United States became a superpower.

[Myroria]

OOC: The US became a superpower by violating their own constitution, not by relying on their allies. If they practiced what they preached, there would be a fourth North American nation right now.

IC:

No, Canadian regular police is for public security, secret police is for the federal security, state business. An emergent dangerous group, like an irresponsible Dysaniian wackos wanting to take over Canada, might not be harmful for the public in general, but it will harm the Canadian Federation as a whole, thus harming the population further on. The secret police will act secretly so that this groups won't fake being honest and loyal to the Federation when they are dishonest and hypocritical!

If Canada is a great power, as is claimed, would a couple of idiots from a defeated country really pose a threat to such a powerful empire? Secret police would ideally only be needed to flush out a huge, organized group, and then disband immediately after. When secret police are posed with peace instead of war, they quickly become tools for an absolute ruler to overstep their boundries.

You assume then Canada needs no repair from it's losses after two bloody wars. Dysanii dared to mess with Canada, now he has to pay for his importune! It's only fair that Canada gets the western provinces of Acadia, their people are practically Canadian, they even celebrate some of our holy-days and the gastronomy is basically the same. They won't mind being annexed, specially now they might want to run away from Dysanii that caused them so much pain. We are offering them salvation, a chance to be part of the good side, and the best nation they can be in. They will beg to be part of the Federation!

Who says they will? Canadians, in Dysanii. If we are allowed to break the fourth wall and look at RL here, the disunification of Germany only lead to deaths and prejudice, intensifying the Cold War. Who's to say the same won't happen to the "Republic of Acadia" and the rest of Dysanii? Canada has no claim on the rightful land of Dysanii. If I was to go over and kick my neighbor's ass, do I get his house? No, that's not how civilized nations work.

Yes our allies have done a great job, but we were the ones dieing for Canada, we were the ones killing for Canada, we were the ones that won both wars. We deserve to be repay for our losses and the power of the Federation must not be challenged. The Federation is the ultimate power, and we shall flourish our influence in the continent, specially trough economy, expanding our market beyond frontiers. We will be the greatest ally of our friends and the fierce nightmare of our enemies, thus reinforcing the power of our beloved alliance in the continent and the world!

Then demand reparations and the reduction of Dysanii's military. What does taking Dysanii's land serve you in the long run? More mouths to feed, and more people to protect. Empires are the domain of the 1500's and Warhammer 40,000, not modern politics. If anything, a medium-sized, rich nation would prosper more than a massive empire that has to feed millions, if not billions of people.