Well Pakistan, democracy had a good run.

[Of Crazed]

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jIE0IUn4WIiaMBpjG8SI_6H5RXzgD8TQ55L00

Screw you terrorism.

Screw you Musharraf.

[j delight]

I second that sentiment.

[Zimmerwald]

Musharraf, Bhutto, Sharif...distinction without difference.

[j delight]

So, they're all the same to you?

[Zimmerwald]

Please don't make me repeat myself.

[Anniane]

There's a difference between repetition and clarification. Actually, a bit of clarification would be nice. Therefore I ask again:

So, they're all the same to you?

[Myroria]

People who don't wear olive drab are all the same to him.

[j delight]

*steps over g-c's pwnt body and starts a new thought...*


Is it possible to have a lasting democracy in a Muslim nation?  (ok - so define democracy how you will)

[Eientei]

*steps over g-c's pwnt body and starts a new thought...*


Is it possible to have a lasting democracy in a Muslim nation?  (ok - so define democracy how you will)

I believe it is.  Most of the Muslim world is at a point in its history in which conditions for democracy simply aren't ideal - a wide gap between the rich and poor, prevalent corruption in government that forces people to rely on personal connections, etc.  The process of liberalization in government has to include solutions to these problems. They go hand in hand.  There's nothing particularly un-Islamic about having a democratic form of government, in any case.

If most Muslim states do have problems with democracy, it's more of a cultural than a religious issue.  The liberalization and democratization process has to take place slowly and with the support of most of the population.  Since most Muslim states don't have much of a history of democracy in government, it may take a while.  And a few countries have taken significant steps towards democratic governance (Indonesian elections of 2004, for one example.)

[Myroria]

Not every nation is made for democracy. The nature of the Muslim religion and the conservatism of Muslim people means that a Muslim nation tends to be more suited to an authoritarian government. Would a benevolent one be preferable? Sure.

Another case: the Russians. The Czars were authoritarian, the communists were authoritarian, and only now when presidents wield more power does the nation get under control.

Democracy isn't for everyone.

[Meridianland]

Is it possible to have a lasting democracy in a Muslim nation?  (ok - so define democracy how you will)

It's a really flawed question though in the first place, but it gets asked alot in the "west." We don't ask the same thing about Christianity, even though China has officially questioned whether the (Christian-esque) US is truly a representative democracy or not (back to the caveat in your question jd) and Christian majority nations like Guatemala and Haiti have some of the worst human rights abuses around against their citizens.  Turkey, on the other hand, is majority Muslim, as easily defined as democratic as the US is, and has better gender equity in the workplace than the US, the UK, and a lot of other  nations.

[Delfos]

*steps over g-c's pwnt body and starts a new thought...*


Is it possible to have a lasting democracy in a Muslim nation?  (ok - so define democracy how you will)

Whole western world is based on Christian nation, ofc it's possible. It has to take time, not forced down their throats.

[Gulliver]

We don't ask the same thing about Christianity, even though China has officially questioned whether the (Christian-esque) US is truly a representative democracy or not...

I can tell you this, the 109th Congress (I believe) legislated with the direct support of only 17% of voters.

And as to Pakistan... I certainly don't have my hopes up.

[j delight]

Is it possible to have a lasting democracy in a Muslim nation?  (ok - so define democracy how you will)

It's a really flawed question though in the first place, but it gets asked alot in the "west." We don't ask the same thing about Christianity, even though China has officially questioned whether the (Christian-esque) US is truly a representative democracy or not (back to the caveat in your question jd) and Christian majority nations like Guatemala and Haiti have some of the worst human rights abuses around against their citizens.  Turkey, on the other hand, is majority Muslim, as easily defined as democratic as the US is, and has better gender equity in the workplace than the US, the UK, and a lot of other  nations. 

M - It's only a flawed question if one assumes that it was not going to be asked about "Christian" nations.  I asked about Islam because of the topic of this thread.  And you're right about asking that about any country or religion.  Just in this case, I was looking on thoughts about Pakistan and other Muslim nations.  How might a lasting Muslim democracy look, and what aspects of Islam are compatible with what forms of democracy?

[j delight]

*steps over g-c's pwnt body and starts a new thought...*


Is it possible to have a lasting democracy in a Muslim nation?  (ok - so define democracy how you will)

I believe it is.  Most of the Muslim world is at a point in its history in which conditions for democracy simply aren't ideal - a wide gap between the rich and poor, prevalent corruption in government that forces people to rely on personal connections, etc.  The process of liberalization in government has to include solutions to these problems. They go hand in hand.  There's nothing particularly un-Islamic about having a democratic form of government, in any case.

If most Muslim states do have problems with democracy, it's more of a cultural than a religious issue.  The liberalization and democratization process has to take place slowly and with the support of most of the population.  Since most Muslim states don't have much of a history of democracy in government, it may take a while.  And a few countries have taken significant steps towards democratic governance (Indonesian elections of 2004, for one example.)

I only wish the U.S. and the U.K. were better suited for democracies.