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Author Topic: Vote in 2008 america.  (Read 17327 times)

Offline Barceleroth

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Re: Vote in 2008 america.
« Reply #210 on: April 20, 2007, 09:41:49 PM »
Quote from: The Empire on April 20, 2007, 07:08:39 AM
Barc, you still hasn't answered about the US atrocities currently beeing committed on the Guantanamo base or those that up until a year ago was going on in Abu Graib and other coalition prisons in Iraq and probably has started up again now that the media coverage has laxed.
Or that US laws under "the patriot act" takes the right to unilatterally kidnap and incarcerate other nations's citizens on suspicion only, for unlimited time and without presenting evidence. It also explicitly allows torture of suspected "terrorists" event though it is prooved that torture isn't a reliable way to extract information. In addition to all this, it has been written in a way as to disguise the meaning of the words.


Abu Graib...  You know, you're right, it would probably be much nicer for us to just video tape our guards beheading the detainees!  I mean, that would be MUCH better than putting underwear over their heads, right?

Where do you think you're coming from, calling Guantanamo an 'atrocity'???  Do you have any idea who is IN Guantanamo?  Granted, I'm not advocating torture, or even this watered-down version of it.  But, hey, when we're talking about captured and convicted terrorists, I couldn't care less what happens to them.  So, if it shocks all of you, that's sweet.  But then I want you to sit down and watch the Daniel Pearl video.  Then tell me who we should be accusing of war crimes. 

Besides that, most of the Guantanamo 'scandal' was pretty much made up, exaggerated, and hinted at being much more than it was.  Did you hear about one detainee's account of the "torture" he endured?  They stuck him in a cell and blew cold air at him.  Um... it's called air conditioning, Mohamed.  You're in Cuba, after all.   ;D  So, he asked them to turn it off.  And they did. 

Don't you really hurt for the poor guy?  ::)

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Offline The Empire

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Re: Vote in 2008 america.
« Reply #211 on: April 20, 2007, 11:05:23 PM »
And what gives you the universal right to decide who is a terrorist and who isn't?

One atrocity can never be excused by another and you have no better information than I about what really happened in there, only the captives knows and don't try to dismiss it as exaggerations, there is NO justification of torture regardless if it leaves physical marks or not.
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Offline Ryazania

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Re: Vote in 2008 america.
« Reply #212 on: April 20, 2007, 11:13:18 PM »
OHNO3S!!!!!!!!!!!1SHIFT HE GUT AIRCUNDITONED!
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When the government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.

Tyrants from Hitler to Mao to Stalin have sought to disarm their own citizens, for the simple reason that unarmed people are easier to control.

Offline Barceleroth

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Re: Vote in 2008 america.
« Reply #213 on: April 20, 2007, 11:21:48 PM »
Well, Empire, obviously you consider this a full-blown atrocity, even though you admitted that no one really knows what actually happened.  Like I said, in this situation, I'm not capable of sympathizing with any such 'victims,' regardless of what happened; not after what they have done to so many of my countrymen, and to so many other free people the world over.  And I can't really fathom how anyone can.  
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Offline The Empire

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Re: Vote in 2008 america.
« Reply #214 on: April 20, 2007, 11:43:55 PM »
So just because they maybe were at the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong facial features makes them a terrorist? I doubt even half of those ILLEGALLY inprisoned there has any connection stronger than that to any fanatical organization.
And considdering what your countrymen has done over the history you certainly have no right to cast the first stone.

Drop the "we are the victims"-act, it's just not belivable coming from a yank.
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Offline Talmann

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Re: Vote in 2008 america.
« Reply #215 on: April 21, 2007, 12:07:01 AM »
Empire, put yourself in our position. Some guys take over a plane and destroy a building, killing thousands. The men on the plane were known to have communicated with other people, who would be trying to continue the terrorism. So the government finds and imprisons them. So you're saying you would rather have more people killed then have a few guys imprisoned? I would side with the people and say, don't imprison them, killings much quicker and costs less.
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"Once art to me was something far off, unfathomable and unreachable... But I discovered that the real essence of art was not something high up and far off, it was right inside my ordinary daily self. If a musician wants to be a fine artist, he must first become a finer person. A work of art is the expression of a person's whole personality, sensibility, and ability." -Shinichi Suzuki

Offline The Empire

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Re: Vote in 2008 america.
« Reply #216 on: April 21, 2007, 12:24:34 AM »
Sheesh... Well, congratulations Talmann, you have just become the same type of monsters you claim to want to stop... :clap:  :shrug:
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Offline Talmann

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Re: Vote in 2008 america.
« Reply #217 on: April 21, 2007, 12:44:19 AM »
Difference between killing someone who's gonna be in jail for life anyway and deliberately killing thousands because you hate their country.
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Music is the key to the heart.

"Once art to me was something far off, unfathomable and unreachable... But I discovered that the real essence of art was not something high up and far off, it was right inside my ordinary daily self. If a musician wants to be a fine artist, he must first become a finer person. A work of art is the expression of a person's whole personality, sensibility, and ability." -Shinichi Suzuki

Offline The Empire

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Re: Vote in 2008 america.
« Reply #218 on: April 21, 2007, 01:09:25 AM »
A killing is still a killing and makes whoever does it a moster even if it's by proxy.
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Offline Talmann

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Re: Vote in 2008 america.
« Reply #219 on: April 21, 2007, 01:11:02 AM »
Your opinion..  :) Now... let's get back on subject and move any further arguements to the other thread, hm?
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Music is the key to the heart.

"Once art to me was something far off, unfathomable and unreachable... But I discovered that the real essence of art was not something high up and far off, it was right inside my ordinary daily self. If a musician wants to be a fine artist, he must first become a finer person. A work of art is the expression of a person's whole personality, sensibility, and ability." -Shinichi Suzuki

Offline The Empire

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Re: Vote in 2008 america.
« Reply #220 on: April 21, 2007, 01:14:41 AM »
Not opinion, fact. My opinion is that you are an uncivilized citizen of an uncivilized barbarian nation which unfortunately happens to be the most dangerous nation on the planet at the same time.
And I second the other part, I'll leave you yanks to discuss which corporate puppet to have control of the button next on your own.
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Offline Durnia

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Re: Vote in 2008 america.
« Reply #221 on: April 21, 2007, 09:53:03 PM »
It's a shame Bush can't run again, but if I lived in the US, I would probably vote for Edwards, he seems honest enough.
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Offline Ryazania

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Re: Vote in 2008 america.
« Reply #222 on: April 21, 2007, 10:00:33 PM »
Edwards spends $400 on haircuts, which I find really odd. I'm not sure I could vote for him because he supports free healthcare (Which is impossible in America. Our Controller General has already said we can't keep up with what we've already promised, let alone what that would do) and is 'not yet ready' to support gay marriage. However, he wants to increase the amount of work visas for immigrants (great) and he only wants gradual troop withdrawal in Iraq all the while training the Iraqi soldiers, which is not a bad platform at all.

However, I shall do a plug for a man I have already donated to. This guy is my absolute number one choice for the Presidency. Shame he doesn't get much publicity.
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Economic Left/Right: 9.65
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.37

Proud Constitutionalist

When the government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.

Tyrants from Hitler to Mao to Stalin have sought to disarm their own citizens, for the simple reason that unarmed people are easier to control.

Offline New History lovers

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Re: Vote in 2008 america.
« Reply #223 on: April 23, 2007, 03:18:52 AM »
I like John Edwards myself, and he has my support.  However, most Democrats, I would vote for, over most Republicans.  However...

NOT Hillary.  She's antivideogame.  That means she's against something that I'm for.  And since I'm Jewish, that means I get to say she's antisemitic.  :)

I am, of course, kidding about the last sentence, in case anyone thought I was being serious.  Again, I WAS COMPLETELY KIDDING.

Anyway, I still can't support her because she's antivideogame.  The same reason I could also never vote for Lieberman.
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Offline Solnath

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Re: Vote in 2008 america.
« Reply #224 on: April 23, 2007, 09:02:03 AM »
Quote from: New History lovers on April 23, 2007, 03:18:52 AM
I am, of course, kidding about the last sentence, in case anyone thought I was being serious.  Again, I WAS COMPLETELY KIDDING.
* Solnath rolls on the floor laughing.
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