US 2008

[Delfos]

no way.

[Zimmerwald]

I never said that he won the Prime Ministry because he was immensely popular, but

Your source speaks for the Maliki government, which has experienced a severe loss of support in the past few weeks, with seventeen ministers pulling out of the cabinet.  The Iraqi Parliament has several times passed resolutions calling for the immediate withdrawal of U.S. troops, and whatever government succeeds Makili will likely iterate that position strongly.

Here you make it seem like just because it was the Maliki Government it does not count that they still want the US troops in there because they lost support.

If it has lost the support of the Parliament, the representatives of the people, and of the people themselves, it is no longer legitimate.  The Maliki government knows that without US troops they have no means of staying in power, so they want US presence to continue.  The Iraqi people, which has withdrawn support from the government for precisely this reason, continues to want US troops out.  There is no change on the horizon in terms of this opinion.

It increases the likelyhood of profiteering, which annoys people concerned about corruption.  It engenders human rights violations, which incences just about everybody.  Especially in the latter case, an injury to one is an injury to all, and most Americans are perceptive enough to see it.

If someone takes a government by force than it could go one of two ways. They could make it into a better government, or they could become corrupt, profiteering from the country, and they could violate many human right. Which by your own arguments means that if someone takes the government by force, and they take the latter course of action, it should affect the whole world .

It should, and it does effect the disposition of the public.  But according to current international law it is no business of the United States whether another country's government is democratic or despotic.  It is instead the business of the Iraqi people to better their own ggovernment and institutions, and they should only get material (rather than moral) help from the Americans if they ask for it.

The best form of government seems to be a benevolent dictatorship.  The problem is finding someone that is benevolent and intelligent and won't turn into a meglomaniac.

This man has swallowed The Republic in its entirety and is really not worth debating.

[Delfos]

mega quote, more about US 2008 election and less about politics? what does US elections got to do with politics anyway?

[Zimmerwald]

fixed ^^ post.

[Delfos]

actually what happened in the congress the other day justifies what we were saying. There were 2 points of view, a general saying that fighting numbers are slowing down and another a politician saying politically and socially that country is a mess. Imagine, if EU has difficulty with Turkey about the culture and the rest of middle east, how wrong can it be trying to make Iraq into a capitalized western bank? or like Japan? Can't you be convinced that doesn't work anymore? There was a cute episode of Family Guy about it all turning into 'the west', in a moment they were sad looking Iraqi and sad looking women washing the cars and suddenly they turned into hot babes getting their boobs wet with the water rug, and the guys partying around or something else that i can't remember. Keep dreaming...

[Ryazania]

Exactly, the cultures and ideals don't mesh. The only reason Japan became capitalist is that they have somewhat similar ideas, and the fact they were forced to.

[Zimmerwald]

Oh, Iraq's capitalist enough.  But you can have capitalism without meaningful parliamentary democracy.

[Bender1968]

 

The best form of government seems to be a benevolent dictatorship.  The problem is finding someone that is benevolent and intelligent and won't turn into a meglomaniac.
This man has swallowed The Republic in its entirety and is really not worth debating.

Show me where I'm wrong.  You guys debate about a republic or parliamentary system, but it doesn't really work.  The leaders that get things done, for better or for worse, are the ones that have circumvented congress.  People as whole will not wake up one day and realize what you're saying is right and makes all the sense in the world.  People are sheep, that want to be lead and hope they're not going to the slaughter house.  The ones that don't feel that way are branded as trouble makers, rabble rousers, intelectuals, etc.  The "no child left behind" program isn't to make the US smarter its to lower standards and keep people controlable.  You don't educate your slaves.  It gives them ideas that they can do better.   

[Myroria]

The best form of government seems to be a benevolent dictatorship.  The problem is finding someone that is benevolent and intelligent and won't turn into a meglomaniac.

Thus, monarchy with Myrorian characteristics: A monarchy where the monarch weilds absolute power, but can be impeached by a High Court and may not break certain, unbreakable amendments to a constitution. To put it very simply.

[Bender1968]

Thus, monarchy with Myrorian characteristics: A monarchy where the monarch weilds absolute power, but can be impeached by a High Court and may not break certain, unbreakable amendments to a constitution. To put it very simply.

True, but you still have to hope that the monarch is somewhat intelligent and the high court isn't stacked with the monarchs buddies.

[Ryazania]

Thus, monarchy with Myrorian characteristics: A monarchy where the monarch weilds absolute power, but can be impeached by a High Court and may not break certain, unbreakable amendments to a constitution. To put it very simply.

True, but you still have to hope that the monarch is somewhat intelligent and the high court isn't stacked with the monarchs buddies.

Bender, no one is disputing what you said. Alas, absolute power corrupts absolutely. If we figure out a way to go with a benevolent dictatorship without the possible craziness, we will use it.

[Delfos]

Best form of government is on the other topic.

[Bender1968]

True, this is about the US in 2008.  This is what's going to happen, "meet the new boss, same as the old boss".  I know its a cynical outlook but I think too much damage has been done that 1 person can fix.  Its always been easier to destroy than create.

[Zimmerwald]

I completely agree with you that whoever gets elected will be at best a Right Social Democrat, and that a complete overhaul of the State machinery and the people running it is needed.  But of course, we're talking electoral politics here, and there's no reason not to indulge in speculative fantasy.  It is, after all, the Internet.

[Bender1968]

Yeah but you'd figure that there enough people out there that we can band together and make a difference in 2008.  I think its going to be Obama with hillary as VP.