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Author Topic: US 2008  (Read 10188 times)

Offline Myroria

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Re: US 2008
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2007, 01:44:00 AM »
I thought he hadn't announced yet?

Never mind, he has. Go Ron Paul '08.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2007, 01:48:10 AM by Libertarian Monarchy of Myroria »
"I assure you -- I will be quite content to be a mere mortal again, dedicated to my own amusements."

Offline Trey

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Re: US 2008
« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2007, 03:16:12 AM »
that's surely a shit bucket!

Why haven't you disarmed those nuclear weapons yet?
What the hell are you still doing in Iraq?

We haven't disarmed because the majority of the people in the US are convinced that if we disarm, China, North Korea, Iran, Russia, or X Nation will proceed to blow us back to the Stone Age.  Now, I ultimately believe that EVERYONE should disarm; accepting the futility of that, I'd rather not be the first to disarm.  Now, I know that is the reasoning behind most countries resisting disarmament; the question is, "How do you get around that?".

I honestly cannot understand why the US hasn't gone to a Popular Vote system yet, especially after the debacle that was the 2000 elections.  The idea of Democracy is simple; the people vote.  Who/Whatever gets the most votes wins.  That's how it works in all the other US elections, but NOOOOO, we have to keep this archaic concept afloat.  Some say that smaller states will be disadvantaged if we move to a popular vote.  HA!  A candidate can currently win the presidency (through the electoral college) by winning all of eleven states: California, New York, Texas, Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Michigan, North Carolina, Georgia, and New Jersey.  This would give them the necessary 271 electoral votes.  So much for the smaller states.

Obama doesn't want gun rights, huh?  GOOD.  Canada and the UK seem just fine with stricter gun laws.

Really, what are you afraid of?
Doesn't Gravel have some big points, and don't you believe he would change US prospective?

Afraid of a political revolution?

Exactly.  You nailed the feelings of most of the people in the US.
"I believe every single person is extraordinary. The tragedy is that we
have a society where too many people never get to fulfill that
extraordinary potential. My view – the liberal view – is that
government’s job is to help them to do it. Not to tell people how to
live their lives. But to make their choices possible, to release their
potential, no matter who they are. The way to do that is to take power away from those who hoard it. To challenge vested interests. To break down privilege. To clear out the bottlenecks in our society that block opportunity and block progress. And so give everyone a chance to live the life they want." - Nick Clegg, Leader of the Liberal Democrats and Deputy Prime Minister of the United Kingdom

Offline Khem

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Re: US 2008
« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2007, 03:24:09 AM »
About stem-cell research: It should be illegal to find a cure for cancer because some book of stories says it's wrong? If life began at conception, we wouldn't celebrate birthdays as the day we came out of the womb.
yet again something i agree with you on Garth. hence why i support John Edwards and have since he tried to run in 2004.

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Offline Zimmerwald

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Re: US 2008
« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2007, 11:53:55 PM »
Ryaz, if you think the Constitution is a libertarian document, think again, or perhaps read it some time.  The Constitution as written was intended to set up big government, not to eliminate or dispose of government.


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Offline Myroria

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Re: US 2008
« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2007, 12:15:32 AM »
I'm not a huge Constitutionalist. It's vague, like trying to figure out what the Bible's saying. It's hard to get one meaning out of it.
"I assure you -- I will be quite content to be a mere mortal again, dedicated to my own amusements."

Offline Ryazania

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Re: US 2008
« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2007, 12:51:56 AM »
Ryaz, if you think the Constitution is a libertarian document, think again, or perhaps read it some time.  The Constitution as written was intended to set up big government, not to eliminate or dispose of government.

Obviously a document that was written to form a government does not intend to eliminate or dispose of itself, that is paradoxical to the idea of government. I believe the system of government that was set up before the War Between the States is the right and proper one of America. Of course, my opinions change little, so I can only HOPE to support someone who at the very least shares much of the same ideals I do and plans to follow the law instead of lobbies.
Economic Left/Right: 9.65
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.37

Proud Constitutionalist

When the government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.

Tyrants from Hitler to Mao to Stalin have sought to disarm their own citizens, for the simple reason that unarmed people are easier to control.


Offline Osamafune

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Re: US 2008
« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2007, 03:59:40 AM »
Osafume, if what you described is the concept of Obama's points, then he's quite a battle horse. Yes bases in other countries are waste of military and money...but US Gov. Seems to like to waste money on the military. Among the other things, what you defend seems fantastic.

Myro, i liked your comments but you focused on the past, i want to know what solutions you have, or what candidate has the best solutions. Staying in Iraq isn't a solution in my opinion, stay forever? is that what you mean?
Bush is history here i guess. So whatever he has done or will do with Iran will become an issue to whoever is elected.

Afghanistan wasn't that bad...they shouldn't have invaded Iraq and maybe the Afghanistan 'war' wouldn't last so long, like Myro said. Afghanistan should be already free from foreign military. Same goes to Iraq in my opinion, if you fail, you cannot continue staying/failing. Just pull out...
Osafume?

Anyway, I think Bush had been taking a few wrong approaches in Iraq. If it was handled differently, I think we could win. For one thing, put more pressure on Maliki to put into place the oil reforms and allowing Sunnis to have more power in the Gov't. Only recently has the strategy of "taking and holding" positions has been implemented. Previously, troops had only been conducting raids on militants and retreating, now we're actually holding the ground we take, and cities this has been done in has seen a big drop in violence. Violence in Baghdad is also down. Al Qaeda in Iraq has shifted again, but now they only have but so far to go. They've went from Anbar, to Baghdad/Diyala, and now are in northern Iraq. They only have but so much Iraqi territory left to retreat too, and public opinion has turned against them. If we keep up the process of getting Sunnis to work with us against Al Qaeda, they could actually be defeated, or atleast severely crippled. Lastly, Bush and Maliki need to conduct more diplomacy with Iraq's neighbors, especially Syria and Iran.


Quote
About stem-cell research: It should be illegal to find a cure for cancer because some book of stories says it's wrong? If life began at conception, we wouldn't celebrate birthdays as the day we came out of the womb.
Celebrating your birthday is an old tradition, back when they didn't know about such things as "conception," and they don't change that often. It's a lot harder, if not impossible, to pinpoint exactly when a baby was concepted. This goes especially for normal, non-scientifically educated people. An embryo can respond to external stimula, I consider that to be more than enough to consider something organic to be "alive." This is also why I'm against abortion.

Offline Durnia

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Re: US 2008
« Reply #22 on: August 29, 2007, 03:50:36 PM »
All I can say is that the USA's election system is completely out-dated.

I know the British system isn't perfect but in my view, it is much better.
Nobody of importance.

Offline Eientei

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Re: US 2008
« Reply #23 on: August 29, 2007, 04:12:26 PM »
All I can say is that the USA's election system is completely out-dated.

I know the British system isn't perfect but in my view, it is much better.

You mean the Electoral College?  We all complain about it every four years, but it never goes away.  There's no chance of the small states letting go of the influence it gives them, in any case.

Offline Delfos

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Re: US 2008
« Reply #24 on: August 30, 2007, 12:28:13 PM »
::) the British one doesn't stand as an example of modern electorate.

Offline Delfos

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Re: US 2008
« Reply #25 on: September 03, 2007, 03:08:31 PM »


interesting...

Offline Ryazania

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Re: US 2008
« Reply #26 on: September 03, 2007, 04:49:23 PM »
I thought Paul might have been a bit further south than that. I suppose it's because he himself is pro-life, but supports a state's right to vote on it, among other issues.
Economic Left/Right: 9.65
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.37

Proud Constitutionalist

When the government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.

Tyrants from Hitler to Mao to Stalin have sought to disarm their own citizens, for the simple reason that unarmed people are easier to control.


Offline Delfos

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Re: US 2008
« Reply #27 on: September 03, 2007, 05:06:13 PM »
that's typical right, i don't consider hard right any libertarian...but look at Gravel. I guess this can be compared to popularity :p you have to admit US public is highly influenced by 'fascist' right just to be opposed to any left at all.

Offline Myroria

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Re: US 2008
« Reply #28 on: September 03, 2007, 07:53:08 PM »
Ron Paul isn't a Reagan or Goldwater in my opinion, but he's the best we got for this election. It's too bad he's pro-life, but at least he supports the state's right to vote on it.

And for once, I agree with Delfos. The Church Formerly Known As The Republican Party is most certainly doing this country more harm than good. They better clean their act up, or the Dems are gonna become the party in front.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2007, 07:54:48 PM by Libertarian Monarchy of Myroria »
"I assure you -- I will be quite content to be a mere mortal again, dedicated to my own amusements."

Offline Bender1968

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Re: US 2008
« Reply #29 on: September 05, 2007, 12:30:34 PM »
The dems are going to sweep in 2008, Good ole W and his friends just wrecked this country.  I do think its time for a strong 3rd party{cough}libertarian{cough}.  We can blame the republicans for a lot but all the democrats do is the opposite of the republicans and vice-versa.  Neither party is looking out for the best interest of the country.   

Iraq: We never should have gone in.  Colin Powell even said not to do it.  He was ignored, then he said "OK, this is how you do it" and again ignored.  I had told people that I'll give them 3 months to find the WMD's but didn't want to be there a year later hearing that they were still looking for them.  After Desert Storm, we knew they didn't have anything and what they did have were left overs from the Iran-Iraq war.  Weapons are not like a fine wine, they don't get better with age.

Iran: if we were going to invade anyone, it should have been them.  They're the ones with the nuclear program.  The same goes for North Korea.

I don't think tighter gun control is the answer.  Take a look at Switzerland, every household must have a weapon and everyone must know how to use it.  While it is too insure their neutrality, it also keeps the crime rate way down.  Then again we're a nation of blamers and no one takes responsibilty for their actions.