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News: Citoyen reminder: Socioendangerment levels run from one to sixteen. Cooperation with mandatory sentencing from the Citoyen-Mediator may result in decreased rehabilitation length.

Author Topic: Shoes  (Read 6637 times)

Offline Tacolicious

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Re: Shoes
« Reply #60 on: April 22, 2007, 07:06:31 PM »
(Tacolicious) your to hardcore to be a tree hugging hippie.

I hold the hippie philosophy in my heart. I also study the history and have been thinking as to why the first generation of hippies failed so miserably. I believe that with a balanced look at our world and our place in that world we can find a hippie philosophy that works.

It's an idea I'll have to kick around next time I'm at a drum circle
http://www.nationstates.net/wheresoever

"Reality is an illusion albeit a persistant one"
"Wisest is he who knows he is not wise"
"Nothing is fun when you have to do it, that's why you don't see a lot of old whores giggling over sex"


Delicious Comrade of the most Awesome Party

Offline Algerianbania

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Re: Shoes
« Reply #61 on: April 22, 2007, 09:46:43 PM »
(Tacolicious) your to hardcore to be a tree hugging hippie.

I hold the hippie philosophy in my heart. I also study the history and have been thinking as to why the first generation of hippies failed so miserably. I believe that with a balanced look at our world and our place in that world we can find a hippie philosophy that works.

It's an idea I'll have to kick around next time I'm at a drum circle

No it can't be true. That's impossible!
Member of the Order of the Gryphons, Senator of Taijitu, Ambassador to The North Pacific, Deputy MoEA of The North Pacific, Member of the Regional Assembly of The North Pacific
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Offline Tacolicious

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Re: Shoes
« Reply #62 on: April 23, 2007, 05:04:58 AM »
'Fraid so, I'm a hippie philosopher among other things. I walk bare foot, play the Djembe, am a vegetarian and am well read on many topics. Among trying to create an improved hippie philosophy I am also currently working on trying to understand the theory of relativity and to even improve on it, a new economic theory which will correct the current flaws in our economy and reduce the competition rate on our capital medium from it's current 100% standing, writing a book and a few other projects still too early to really talk about.

Like I said:

H ighly
I ntelligent
P erson
P ursuing
I nteresting
E ndeavors

http://www.nationstates.net/wheresoever

"Reality is an illusion albeit a persistant one"
"Wisest is he who knows he is not wise"
"Nothing is fun when you have to do it, that's why you don't see a lot of old whores giggling over sex"


Delicious Comrade of the most Awesome Party

Offline Khablan

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Re: Shoes
« Reply #63 on: April 23, 2007, 01:32:38 PM »
The hippies failed?  That would depend on your criteria.  They didn't accomplish some of the specific goals that were pursued, but they did accomplish the broader ones.  The hippy movement was born out of a general discontent with their parents' way of life and code of ethics.  They sought to change people's thinking on whether conformity to the current standards and belief system is as essential as their parents believed or even desirable in every situation.  That was the major goal of that time period, and they accomplished it.  And that led to huge progress in civil rights, the women's movement, etc. 

Obviously, some of the ways the hippie generation experimented with non-conformity were not successful, such as the drug use and free love.  But then, fanatics and extreme actions are often used during periods when the masses seek to break free from ingrained schools of thought.  Over time, the extremes die off due to implausibility, and a more reasonable compromise takes hold.  That's where the real proof of success or failure lies - whether that ends in real improvement or not. 

As far as the drug use goes, you have to remember that their parents' generation was very big on alcohol, and it was never acceptable to acknowledge alcohol problems, much less speak of them - one brushed such things under the rug.  Papa wasn't drunk, he was "under the weather".  The hippies traded the alcohol for drugs.  But because their goal was to break free of their parents' strict set of values, they took the other extreme, which was to be extremely open about it. 

And because they did bring it out into the open, the masses were suddenly and brutally exposed to the reality of addiction which had been kept mainly hidden until that point.  And the result of THAT led to people finally being able to seek help, and educated people on the risks involved.  While there are and always will be drug and alcohol addicts, there are fewer now than when it was all kept hush-hush, and there is now help available for both the addicts and their families.  So that, too, had a beneficial affect on society in the long run.

What about free love?  Do a little research.  How many of your very own relatives back in the 50's and early 60's were pregnant when they got married?  A startling proportion, actually.  It was an acceptable (if quiet) practice for a woman to intentionally get pregnant in order to get her beau to marry her.  And affairs while married have always been fairly commonplace.  But again, these things were swept under the rug - even to those who were guilty of the same, it was considered highly socially unacceptable.  Here again, hippies just decided to bring it out into the open, spurning what they felt was hypocrisy in their parents' generation.  As a result, we know a lot more about STD's and how to guard against them, we've seen that polygamy tends not to work out well for most, and an unmarried pregnant woman (as well as the forthcoming child) no longer has to live with a strong stigma attached.

The hippies spawned the natural foods movement, which made people more aware of what they eat and how it can affect their health.  That diluted and spread to the general populace, resulting in more research being done.  We now know that eating a steady diet of food fried in lard and bacon fat is going to shorten our lifespan, for instance.  In turn, that led to an awareness of fitness and the need for regular exercise.  Daily life now generally requires less physical exertion than it used to, and so it's becoming increasingly more important to supplement it with planned activity for good health.

Freedom from strict conformity entailed questioning authority.  Instead of accepting that our parents, the clergy, the government were always right, the hippies chose to think things through for themselves, speak openly about it, and attempt to change what they felt needed changed.  While there were fanatics among them, and people now wouldn't necessarily agree with some of the individual opinions involved back then, the result is that it is far more acceptable now to form our own opinions rather than accept the commonly held beliefs, and to voice our that opinion even when it goes against authority or current standards.  We now have far greater freedom of speech and laws to enforce that right.  It is now more acceptable (and less risky) to go against the system in order to try to change what we believe needs changed.  The hippies paved the way for that.

The hippies brought forth an awareness of ecology, how what we do to our environment in turn affects our lives and our health.  That led to stricter laws on toxic waste and similar things.  Whether you consider global warming to be of immediate concern or not, you can still appreciate laws against corporations polluting your drinking water with toxins, for instance.

I'd say the hippy movement was pretty successful in the long run.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2007, 02:45:39 PM by Khablan »
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Offline Solnath

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Re: Shoes
« Reply #64 on: April 23, 2007, 03:38:51 PM »
 :clap: Did you have to make it even longer?  O:-) :-P
Neutral Evil

Offline Marsos

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Re: Shoes
« Reply #65 on: April 24, 2007, 12:03:53 AM »
'Fraid so, I'm a hippie philosopher among other things. I walk bare foot, play the Djembe, am a vegetarian and am well read on many topics. Among trying to create an improved hippie philosophy I am also currently working on trying to understand the theory of relativity and to even improve on it, a new economic theory which will correct the current flaws in our economy and reduce the competition rate on our capital medium from it's current 100% standing, writing a book and a few other projects still too early to really talk about.

Like I said:

H ighly
I ntelligent
P erson
P ursuing
I nteresting
E ndeavors


It's pretty easy to develop an economic theory. The assumptions on which it has to be based is the hard part. You have to decide on what degree of intrinsic and extrinsic motivation is optimal for the average human, and then operate on that. Then you have to imagine the crappiest marketing situation within the realm of possibility and run your theory through that. No doubt you've thought of this, though. I'm just curious about your basic assumptions. My assumptions on human nature is that humans are basically evil, and are pressured by society to be good. I believe that the best motivation for humans is one that favors personal, measurable, and quick rewards that are in their self-interest.
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Offline Solnath

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Re: Shoes
« Reply #66 on: April 24, 2007, 12:10:44 AM »
My presumption is that everything derives from laziness. To prove my point, I shall go to bed now. Good night.
Neutral Evil

Offline Khablan

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Re: Shoes
« Reply #67 on: April 24, 2007, 11:57:43 AM »
Guess I did kinda get on that soapbox. 

And I subscribe to the theory that humans are naturally neutral, rather than evil or good.  But they're also naturally egocentric at birth.  If a person sees that as evil because they've been taught that selfishness is bad, then they'll see human nature as evil.  Society and life experience tends to dilute that down to narcissism.  Humans learn over time that performing non-egocentric actions can in turn come back to benefit them in the long run.  So that supports the theory that the best motivator is one that convinces the person of an easy personal reward.
For all the news, check out our Community Office!

Got questions?  We got answers!  Come see our Information Section!

Official welcome wagon of Taijitu, Co-Minister of Community and Recruitment. Taijitu's ambassador to TWP, Madre Califidrix of the Order of Gryphons. 

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Offline Daimiaen

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Re: Shoes
« Reply #68 on: April 24, 2007, 01:32:58 PM »
I personally prefer the pre hippy beat generation....they were at least honest about their motivations....

Most of the sixties hippys were a bunch of privileged whiners who could afford to be "rebellious" against their parents....

the only person from that whole era I have any respect for is emmet grogan who started the Diggers......

They were the people who started the free health programs...the free crash pads for all the homeless kids who had bought into the fallacy of "Free living" and gone to the Haight only to find the truth was that the hippy philosophy was actually..."What's yours is mine and what's mine is mine..."

And they also started the free food program in the panhandle.....

anyhoo...rant over....for now....

And on the whole shoes thing.....

Wear what is appropriate to your needs....

Dai....
Nothing real can be threatened nothing unreal exists....

Political compass....
Economic Left/Right: -5.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.08

Offline Delfos

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Re: Shoes
« Reply #69 on: April 24, 2007, 02:48:14 PM »
i like hippies, hippies with communist values sometimes are pathetic, mainly because of the brainwash the Communist Youth does. but all the party youths do it, for example the Portuguese Monarch Youth is totally wicked, they believe in the empire and that we should had never give out our colonies. oh oh oh side note: why dont we believe in imperialism, we already had imperialism!!! it sucks!