You have split the matter in two, but they declare jihad, and since we're talking of religion based states then i would mix both. Seems you don't have religious basis to actually say who's right and who's wrong.
Of course we don't have a religious basis. No one does. And I never pretended that we do. The conflict in the middle east has nothing to do with religion. Judaism and Islam have no ideological qualms with each other. In fact Islam is an offshoot of Judaism. Muhammad said it himself. He admired the Jewish and Christian religions (Christianity being an other offshoot of Judaism), and wanted his race (Arabs) to adopt a similar faith. Rather then convert them to one of the two existing religions, he took their basic principals and molded them to fit the Arab psyche. Hence Islam was born.
So the faiths are incredibly similar. The current conflict in the middle east is over territory and perceived wrongs by the other side, not religion. Israel is against the Arab world, not because of anti-Islamic sentiment, but because they view the Arab world as a threat to their security. Wouldn't you be anti-Spanish if Spain made the destruction of Portugal official government policy?
And What i meant is that the structure isn't much difference, as you told that Islamic and Judaic society/culture isn't much different in base of religion, so i assume this is a 'western' influence to think Israelite think they have better society than the Islamic ones.
I'm not sure what you're getting at. It's fair to say Israelis think they have a better culture then Iranians. Like-wise I think it's fair to say Iranians think their society is superior to Israel's. And neither is right. No one society is better then any other. Each society is based on the practises of the people. A Muslim no doubt would prefer Iran to Israel, and a Jew would choose Israel over Iran. As a Canadian I would choose Canada or the the UK over the US, and an American would choose the US over Canada or the UK. See what I'm getting at? Everyone thinks the society they live in is the best. No one's right, no society is the best. It all depends on who you are and what you feel at ease with.
I actually saw the difference of those groups, they boarded other living groups in Israel, specially the catholic and other Christians. But my problem was actually the extreme influence the religion had in the society, where the 'prayers' were actually payed with pensions by the state and all that. That's why i initially referenced other Islamic cultures around Israel, where i actually do not consider they have less developed society than Israelite.
I never said Islamic societies were less developed then the Judaic society in Israel, it's just different, tailored to Islamic specifications.
What you need to understand though, is that Judaic society isn't underdeveloped either. Of course, in a Jewish state Judaic institutions are going to be funded by the state. Just like Islamic institutions are funded in Islamic states. Islamic states are tailored around the Islamic faith, just as Israel is tailored around the Jewish faith. Neither is "better" then the other, it just depends on who you are.
About that if you deserve or not a place to have Judaic people, sure you do...but it could have been some other place...why Jerusalem? Saladin wouldn't be happy if he could see this from his grave...but that's another issue that i do not want to discuss because i do not believe Jerusalem should be held by a single religion/state, otherwise it should be the rightful ones that actually conquered Jerusalem (by force).
You need to understand something. We didn't pick Israel and Jerusalem at random. It was picked because that's the historic homeland of the Jewish people. We have already been there in 1948 if the Romans hadn't expelled us in the Diaspora. The land that is now the State of Israel was picked because that has always been the homeland of the Jews.
Also, I would disagree about Saladin. Saladin was very kind to the Jews, he considered the Jews brothers to the Muslims, much more so then Christians. If anything Saladin would be sad to see the two peoples he loved and considered brothers, at war with each other.
Also, you should know that the original borders of the State of Israel didn't include the city of Jerusalem. Jerusalem was still a city in Jordon, but was taken by Israel during the Six Day War in 1967. So Jerusalem was conquered by force by Israel.
As for why the Jews should control Jerusalem, that city has been the centre of Jewish myth and civilization since King David. In fact the prayers of Passover end with the saying "Next year in Jerusalem" hoping that in a year the holiday will be held in the Holy City.
Yes, the city has importance to both Muslims and Christians, but it was a Jewish city centuries before Christianity and Islam came into existence.
About anti-semitism. I don't know where you heard that. Well it's in our history and most of the European history that to please the Catholic Church we all had to expel the Jews out of our countries. But there's allot of stories about Jews in Portugal, the 1st is that we sent them all to Holland (Netherlands) because it was neutral to the Catholic Church. That's one of the reasons why Netherlands became the best merchant nation a bit after in history. And the court of Portugal kept allot of Jews working for the King, he actually fancied them, not like the Spanish b1tch who would rather decapitate them. To actually tell you a funny story, allot of theories point that Colombo (Columbus) was a Portuguese Jew, one of the protected by the King of Portugal. Anyway moving on in history, we had a dictatorship, deep catholic one, so it would probably be very anti-Semitic, parallel to Hitler's. But after the revolution that is impossible, we have some neo-nazi but they are almost outlawed by the modern constitution, and we are certainly in numbers less racist/xenophobic/anti-semitic than the Spanish, German, English and such. Giving yout he example of Nuetros Hermanos (Spanish), they have regions willing to become independent (Glad we are!) and they have allot of cases of racism over that. If a Catalan go to a Basque pub he gets a twice as expensive beer as a Basque would. That's why i say USA should have some kind of revolution over the right so they could wake up about their nationalism :p
so no, if you heard we have high numbers of anti-semitism, it's either outdated from the time of our dictatorship or false.
I'm not sure where I heard it, it's just something that most Jews assume, I guess. Kind of like "oh so you're going to Portugal? It's a lovely country, but don't tell anyone you're Jewish, they don't like us over there." Stuff like that.
I'm glad to know it's outdated though, 'cause I've actually wanted to go (I hear you have great whine).
Yep, I know all about Holland. My ancestors, after leaving Israel after the Roman Diaspora, settled in England, but left for Holland after Edward I expelled all the Jews. They then returned to Britain after Oliver Cromwell readmitted the Jews some five hundred years latter. About a hundred years latter (1770's) my half of the family moved to Canada, the other half stayed behind.
As far as my family goes, we're not typically religious. We assimilated into Dutch, then British, then Canadian culture. So there's a long history of my family thinking of themselves as Britons or Canadians who happen to be Jewish rather then Jews living in Britain or Canada. Still, we go to services, I had a Bar Mitzvah, and we don't eat things that aren't Kosher in the house (anything outside the house is fair game, hello Red Lobster
).
