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Author Topic: Nuclear Iran  (Read 20555 times)

Offline Tacolicious

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Re: Nuclear Iran
« Reply #30 on: September 29, 2007, 02:39:35 PM »
Now if only capitalism actually had anything to do with democracy. If anything it forms an oligarchy which is nothing at all like a true democracy. It's why no matter who you vote for you vote for people who defend the status quo and big business at the expense of the average person, because they only care about their class.

As Machiavelli said: "When a government rules in the interest of the people, the people will feel more secure in settling down, starting families and establishing works. Overall the society will grow. If the government rules in it's own interest, which seldom if ever is in the interest of the people the best that society can hope for is a dead stand still. However since nothing in nature remains at a state of rest that society will inevitably decline"

The US$ has been surpassed by the Can$ for the first time in over 30 years, your economy just had a huge credit crunch and is setting up for another soon and the US is slipping from being the top world power to being a backwards and fading empire... and you really think capitalism works?
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Offline Delfos

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Re: Nuclear Iran
« Reply #31 on: September 29, 2007, 04:00:08 PM »
try to bound that with Iran and Nuclear power and you might get close to an in-topic discussion.

well yes, it's the american capitalism/imperialism that is screwing the fanatics, that's why they torch American banks, that's why they sabotage oil convoys. Capitalism is taking over their lands that were swuposed to be pure and highly moral. That can be linked with the dislikeness generated by the invasion of middle eastern countries by the US forces and NATO and any other. They want to do it their own way, if Iran gets nuclear they will have huge surplus, exportation of fossil energies will be big int he agenda and will increase the trade with other countries, excluding the USA. That's Iran alright, they are only thanking USA for supporting the devil king, and now that USA took over Iraq it's even more expressive. If you let them have nuclear power they will grow, they are already big, you know? So you could support the clean energies, it would be in the interest of everyone :h:

Offline Osamafune

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Re: Nuclear Iran
« Reply #32 on: September 29, 2007, 06:52:37 PM »
And in other news, the Iranian parliament has labeled the US Army and CIA as terrorist organizations  :-\

Offline Union

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Re: Nuclear Iran
« Reply #33 on: September 29, 2007, 10:02:36 PM »
^Wow, I been waiting so long for a country to do that. Go Iran!
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Offline Prydania

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Re: Nuclear Iran
« Reply #34 on: September 29, 2007, 10:54:24 PM »
I don't have a problem with Iran having nuclear power plants, be they to produce power or for a bomb. If anything an Iranian bomb will introduce MAD into the Middle East, with both Israel and Iran pointing nukes at one and other. Sure, the peace will be tense, but come on, it's the middle east. Tense peace is peace, after all.

The thing I don't want to see is Mahmoud Ahmadinejad getting a bomb. He's easily the closest thing to Hitler we've had since, well, Hitler. While Iran as a nation having a bomb doesn't concern me (MAD), Ahmadinejad with a bomb does. He's crazy enough to actually use the damn thing.

So I guess what I'm saying is, I would rather Iran not get the bomb until Ahmadinejad and fanatics like him are out of power. Delfos, wouldn't you agree? Wouldn't you want to prevent Hitler from getting a nuke? Oh wait....

Offline Gecko1

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Re: Nuclear Iran
« Reply #35 on: September 29, 2007, 11:01:39 PM »
The problem is that the U.S. continues to break the U.N. resolution it still uses to disarm nuclear states. If the U.S. wants to stop proliferation then they should phase out their nuclear arms as well. It isn't as if they would ever use them, one nuke is enough deterrence.
"I live by my own law and Constitution... when it suits me."


Offline Osamafune

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Re: Nuclear Iran
« Reply #36 on: September 30, 2007, 09:31:06 AM »
The Nuclear Non-proliferation treaty doesn't say that a signatory can't have nuclear weapons, only that they would limit the spread of them.

So the US isn't breaking any UN resolution... Unless you're referring to another that I'm not aware of.

Offline Delfos

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Re: Nuclear Iran
« Reply #37 on: September 30, 2007, 10:48:31 AM »
 :trout: US doesn't respect UN since...whenever.

Yes i would agree IS. Don't USA have nuclear bombs? Weren't they the only ones to use it? So what's wrong if anyone else tries to use them? they can't? oh well. Seriously, I'm more worried of USA than Iran with a nuclear bomb.

Offline Bender1968

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Re: Nuclear Iran
« Reply #38 on: September 30, 2007, 11:37:21 AM »
Back in the early 80's Israel sent a couple of planes over Iraq and blew up their nuclear reactor.  They were condemned for it.  It the 90's we all breathed a sigh of relief that we weren't going in to face nuclear weapons.  Iran and North Korea should have been turned to glass once they said they even had a nuclear weapons program. 

The US has only used 2 warheads since developing the weapons.  You are more likely to use 1 than you are several hundred arms.  The thing that kept the Russians at bay wasn't so much MAD as we had the best subs on the planet.  A fanatic doesn't care if they get blown up, as long as they know that they can watch from heaven that someone else has taken up the cause.   
« Last Edit: September 30, 2007, 11:43:01 AM by Bender1968 »

Offline Prydania

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Re: Nuclear Iran
« Reply #39 on: September 30, 2007, 09:05:31 PM »
Yes i would agree IS. Don't USA have nuclear bombs? Weren't they the only ones to use it? So what's wrong if anyone else tries to use them? they can't? oh well. Seriously, I'm more worried of USA than Iran with a nuclear bomb.
The US has done a lot of stupid s#it, you won't get any argument from me there. All though I think they made the right decision to drop the bomb on Japan in WWII. That, however, is a different discussion for a different forum.

Anyway Delfos, like I said, the US has indeed done some stupid s#it throughout history (the current Iraqi War being the latest example), but you're an idiot if you think they're more likely to nuke someone then Iran is. Well perhaps that's misleading. Not Iran, but Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
If you don't think Ahmadinejad wants to nuke Israel then you're living in a dream world. The destruction of an entire people isn't official US government policy, and they've had stockpiles of nukes since the late 1940's. If they wanted a nation gone it would have happened by now.

Ahmadinejad, however, has made the destruction of Israel (and to a lesser extent Jews in general) an official Iranian position. A nuclear weapon would give him the ability to make that happen. Given your views on the Jewish people I don't expect you to find a problem with this, but be realistic about it, who's more likely to use a nuke, the USA or Ahmadinejad-controlled Iran?

Again, I don't have a problem with Iran getting a nuke, in the interest of MAD (one of the only ways we'll get peace in the region). I would rather they get a more stable leader first though. 

Offline Gecko1

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Re: Nuclear Iran
« Reply #40 on: September 30, 2007, 10:07:52 PM »
yes sir, that Mr.A is a bit of a nut. Iran deserves better.
"I live by my own law and Constitution... when it suits me."


Offline Delfos

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Re: Nuclear Iran
« Reply #41 on: September 30, 2007, 10:39:26 PM »
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but you're an idiot if you think they're more likely to nuke someone then Iran is.
I would say you're an idiot if you think I was talking about n00kz. But no, I don't think Bush is that stupid...well he already prove otherwise but...it's different.

Yes but USA is being led by a President that, for what i understand , no one wants, not even non-Americans. So... you loose your point there, Mr.

I did talk with an Iranian that says he doesn't support Mr. A (not Anderson). He says he would rather the last regime, he brands the flag with the shiny lion if you know what i mean. What i can say about the subject, Ahmadinejad (i gotta copy that name every time) is the best thing they have at the moment, i mean, his government isn't as bold as Mr.A is, and if you hear his Foreign Affairs Minister or other departments, specially the Ambassadors, you will see what I'm talking about, there's competence behind all the fanaticism. And they don't like to be linked directly to the fanatics. There's subtle links but even USA has (worse) subtle links.

Oh i would dare to say the current Iranian government is more competent than the current United States of America government: History proves it.

Offline Bender1968

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Re: Nuclear Iran
« Reply #42 on: October 01, 2007, 02:27:38 AM »
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Oh i would dare to say the current Iranian government is more competent than the current United States of America government: History proves it.

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is a terrorist that rose to power.  He is hell bent on the destruction of Israel and the jews.  If you think this guy is competent, you are sadly mistaken. 

Delfos, you are talking about nukes.  Every country that says that they only want a nuclear reactor for "peaceful" purposes always try to build a breeder reactor.  For any one not familiar with breeder reactors, they do produce energy, more importantly they produce plutonium which is a key ingredient in making the most efficient nuclear weapons.  Plutonium works better than uranium.


Offline Prydania

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Re: Nuclear Iran
« Reply #43 on: October 01, 2007, 02:41:32 AM »
First of all, I'm letting you know this is the last time I plan on replying to you.
As a Tory (not a Conservative, a Tory, there's a world of difference), I would like to think I'm tolerant of the opinions of others. But you, I'm sorry, you're just blind to the views of others, you let the EU and Euronews tell you what to think. I'm not going to bother myself with someone who took me simply posting the basics of the Jewish faith as an excuse to attack the State of Israel.
I've had it with your closeted anti-Semetism, your blatant anti-Americanism (anyone who knows me will tell you I don't love my southern neighbour, far from it), your blind spouting of Marxisms (G-China, for example, is a socialist I can respect because he doesn't argue his point of view like a 12 year old), and your all-around attitude of self-superiority. I'm responding here, to defend my opinions on the matter, then I'm washing my hands of you. Go ahead and believe that capitalism is evil, Jews cause all of the world's wars, and that the United States is the "Great Satan."

You're what, fourteen? Take a chill-pill, and calm down. You're letting yourself get caught up in a whirlwind of Eurocentral fanaticism.

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but you're an idiot if you think they're more likely to nuke someone then Iran is.
I would say you're an idiot if you think I was talking about n00kz.
Well considering the name of topic is "Nuclear Iran" I would think "n00kz" would be what we were discussing. If you were thinking of something else, perhaps a change in the thread's title is in order.

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Yes but USA is being led by a President that, for what i understand , no one wants, not even non-Americans. So... you loose your point there, Mr.
First off, I'm by no means a Bush fan. I think both the USA and the American Republican Party can do much better.
Still, compared to Ahmadinejad, he's a beacon of enlightenment. Between Bush and Ahmadinejad, which one has made the destruction of an entire nation (and in a lesser sense an entire race) official government policy? You always conveniently seem to forget that fact....

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I did talk with an Iranian that says he doesn't support Mr. A (not Anderson). He says he would rather the last regime, he brands the flag with the shiny lion if you know what i mean.
*Slaps head. Dude, have you not yet figured out I'm a flag nut? I study Vexillology, of course I know what flag you're talking about. Here's a free tip, cut out the condescending BS. It'll go a long way to getting you respected in the field of intelligent discussion.
As for your Iranian friend, what does that say? A guy who's from Iran would prefer the past regime to the fanatical Islamic regime in power today. While you preach from an ivory tower someone on the ground level is telling you you're wrong.

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What i can say about the subject, Ahmadinejad (i gotta copy that name every time) is the best thing they have at the moment, i mean, his government isn't as bold as Mr.A is, and if you hear his Foreign Affairs Minister or other departments, specially the Ambassadors, you will see what I'm talking about, there's competence behind all the fanaticism. And they don't like to be linked directly to the fanatics. There's subtle links but even USA has (worse) subtle links.
If Ahmadinejad is the best Iran can do at the moment, then maybe the US should ditch Iraq and invade Iran. Because even the worst occupation plan Bush and co. can put together is a hell of a lot better then a government who has advocated the destruction of an other sovereign state, and who seems to be itching to go to war for no good reason. Ahmadinejad got lucky that Tony Blair had no balls. Any British PM with a shred of national pride would have gone in and kicked his ass to Russia and back for pulling the stunt he did.

Simply put, there's no competence behind the Iranian government's fanaticism, and don't kid yourself, they are fanatics. Any government that advocates the destruction of a sovereign nation isn't functioning on all cylinders.
Given that it's Israel, I wouldn't expect you to care, but what if Spain made the destruction of Portugal official government policy? Just imagine you weren't aloof from all of it for a moment.

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Oh i would dare to say the current Iranian government is more competent than the current United States of America government: History proves it.
While reading what I'm about to post, keep in mind my country has spent the majority of its existence in fear of an American invasion. Also, I scored perfect on a university level American history course in grade 10, so I know my American history.
You're nuts. The Iranian government more competent then the American one? Lets take Ahmadinejad and Bush out of the picture, and look at the bigger picture.
What historical evidence do you have to support your ludicrous claim that the Iranian government is more competent then the American gov? I know destroying Israel appeals to you, but come on, look at the big picture.
The Iranian government is run by fanatical religious nut-jobs who use their faith as an excuse to oppress others.
This oppression and the single-stream of thought it protects have stifled progress and turned what should be a wealthy nation due to oil reserves into a third world arm pit. When the government oppresses all but one form of thought, as it has in Iran, innovation and progress come to a screeching halt. When half of your population (at least) is forbidden to education, what hope to you have as a nation?
Hell, I would have thought you, a socialist Eurocentralist, would be critical of Iran for their reactionary politics, specifically the rigid enforcement of a Theocratic government.

The American government, on the other hand, despite its (many) flaws, has embraced freedom of religion, thought, and conscience. The United States is the world's lone superpower. We all know that. But think for a moment, why is that? It's because the American government, by upholding freedom of religion, thought, and conscience, has allowed innovation to not only survive but flourish. This is a nation that put a man on the moon for crying out loud. Think about that for a moment. The moon. We take that achievement for granted, but just think about it, and you realize how amazing an accomplishment that was. Now think. Would the current government of Iran allow for the scientific innovation needed to put a man on the moon to exist? No. Intellectuals are the natural enemy of a fanatical regime. Why? Because they're smart enough to see what's really going on. Hence any type of serious intellectual development in Iran is snuffed out.

You brought up history. Ok, lets look at history and where each nation's history has lead.
Iran-third world nation ruled by a fanatical Theocracy.
United States-the world's loan super power, the first true republic since Rome, allowed the thought of "All men are created equal" to grow in the western world. More scientific and cultural innovations then any other nation.

Now which government is more competent?

Again, you're 14. Believe it or not, you don't know everything. Take a breather, mature a little, and I'll get back to you.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2007, 02:45:15 AM by Inglo-Scotia »

Offline Bender1968

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Re: Nuclear Iran
« Reply #44 on: October 01, 2007, 02:54:16 AM »
Well said, Inglo-Scotia, well said!!