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Author Topic: Laymen, Lend me your Ears!  (Read 2144 times)

Offline Gulliver

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Laymen, Lend me your Ears!
« on: May 17, 2007, 02:33:34 AM »
The situation is as follows: I have been assigned for school an advocacy project, wherein I must develop some policy to advocate and a strategy for advocating it. I have chosen to advocate my own little Condorcet twist of Single Transferable Vote, and when it comes to this perhaps the biggest obstacle to advocating is getting people to understand just what it is. So I have compiled what I believe to be a straightforward and understandable explanation. I can understand it, but then again I wrote it. So, out of curiosity, I run it by the lot of you now. Is the explanation I have compiled understandable and informative, or just confusing?

Quote
Single Transferable Vote (STV) is a preferential (rather than voting for a single candidate, voters rank candidates in order of preference) election method designed to achieve proportionality and to minimized wasted votes while preserving the ability to vote for individual candidates. It is used in Ireland to elect the Dáil Éireann, Australia to elect the Australian Senate, Malta to elect the Il-Kamra tar-Rappreżentanti, Scotland to elect the Scottish Parliament and the city of Cambridge here in Massachusetts to elect the City Council and School Board of the city of Cambridge Massachusetts.

STV as used in these places functions as a multi-member instant runoff vote (IRV), a preferential system used for single winner elections. However, my proposal is for a modified STV which functions as a multi-member Condorcet vote instead. Condorcet voting is also a preferential voting system used to decide single winner elections, and for reasons that will be explained later I consider it to be a better method than IRV.

This modified STV mirrors standard STV on all accounts except the manner in which candidates are eliminated when necessary. Rather than removing the candidate with the least number of votes the Condorcet loser, that candidate who is least preferred compared to all other candidates, is instead removed.

In IRV, candidates are ranked in order of preference, and then the votes for the most preferred candidate on each ballot is tallied. If no candidate holds a majority of votes, the candidate with the lowest number of votes is eliminated and their votes are then transferred to the next ranked candidate on the ballots cast for that candidate. This process is repeated recursively until a single candidate obtains a majority of votes.

IRV however does not satisfy the Condorcet criterion, that is to say that it does not necessarily elect the Condorcet winner, the single candidate who is genuinely overall preferred compared to every other candidate. Condorcet voting on the other hand by definition finds and selects as the election's winner the Condorcet winner. In Condorcet voting, candidates are also ranked. But instead of progressively eliminating candidates and transferring votes, each candidate is instead faced off against every other candidate in a series of pairwise contests, each candidate receiving a vote in each such contest for every ballot casted in which they are ranked higher than their opponent and vice versa. The candidate who wins all of these pairwise contests by a majority of votes in each is the Condorcet winner. The candidate meanwhile who looses all of these pairwise contests is the Condorcet looser.

With Condorcet voting, it is possible to have Condorcet paradox occur, in which there is no Condorcet winner and a cycle of preference is set up. To break such a cycle, the victory/loss which occurred by the smallest margin of votes is removed.

The actual method for conducting such a Condorcet STV election is as follows:

For the election of the General Court of Massachusetts, the state would be divided into 20 8 member districts for the House of Representatives and 5 8 member districts for the Senate, all districts for any given house of the General Court to represent an equal share of the population.

At elections, voters cast their ballots by ranking in order of preference as many of the candidates standing for election within a given district as they see fit by numbering their names on the ballot from 1 upwards. Alternatively, those voters who identify with or are more knowledgable of a party rather than individual candidates may instead vote for any of the parties listed on the ballot instead, in which case their ballot shall be considered to list whatever candidates in whatever order of preference given by that particular party's list. These lists would be created prior to an election for voters to review and displayed on the day of the election day itself at polling stations.

Once the polls have been closed, tallying begins. The votes for each candidate, which for the first round will be the total number of ballots in which each candidate is ranked first, are counted up and it is checked to see if any candidate has reached the necessary quota to be elected. The value of the quota is given by the formula (V/(S+1))+1, where V is the total number of unspoilt votes and S is the number of seats to be filled, rounding to the next whole number. The values of V and S will change as the votes are tallied and candidares are elected. All candidates, if any, who meet or exceed this quota are declared to be elected.

The surplus votes for those candidates declared elected are then transferred to the next candidate ranked on their respective ballots. Rather than randomly choosing which surplus votes to transer, which can change the result of a close election depending on which votes are transferred, all of the votes cast for the winning candidate are instead divided by a value X (accurate to 6 decimal places), where X is equal to the total number of votes the candidate received divided by the surplus so that the total sum of the votes now equals the surplus, and are then transferred to the next unelected or uneliminated candidate ranked on their respective ballots. The resulting sums of new votes are then rounded to the nearest whole number.

Also, in the event that any number of candidates reach quota the value of V for determining the quota is reduced by the number of candidates elected time the current quota and S is reduced by the number of candidates elected.

If no candidate reaches quota, the Condorcet loser among the remaining candidates is then eliminated, and their votes then transferred to the next uneliminated or unelected candidate ranked on their respective ballots.

This process is repeated recursively until all of the seats within the district have been filled.

Should a vacancy open, the countback method can be used to find a replacement. What this entitles is taking the ballots from the most recent election and eliminating the legislator who previously occupied the seat, transferring their votes appropriately, and then finding the candidate who could have won otherwise. If no candidate to fill the seat can be found using a countback, a by-election using a standard Condorcet vote, as the method of STV described above would elect the same winner as a Condorcet vote were it used for a single seat, can be used.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2007, 02:40:19 AM by Pragmia »

Offline Algerianbania

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Re: Laymen, Lend me your Ears!
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2007, 03:36:12 AM »
I don't know. It is too large and I did not read it. First piece of constructive criticism.
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Offline Solnath

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Re: Laymen, Lend me your Ears!
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2007, 11:27:24 AM »
Understandable, yet requires an example so that people can grasp the practical applications and to reduce misunderstandings.
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Offline Allama

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Re: Laymen, Lend me your Ears!
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2007, 01:06:39 PM »
^ Agreed.  I found it suitably understandable and informative, though a couple stylistic changes might be suggested (i.e. repetitive language, spelling mistakes).

Offline Solnath

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Re: Laymen, Lend me your Ears!
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2007, 01:34:18 PM »
I was planning on simply stating "oh noes, the typoes" but decided that it's not too constructive.
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Offline Khablan

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Re: Laymen, Lend me your Ears!
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2007, 02:47:14 PM »
Some of it is easily understandable, but I did have to re-read some parts a couple of times, and some of it remains unclear.  A few tweaks would remedy most of that, mainly by adding some commas or re-arranging a bit of the text. 

Quote
Single Transferable Vote (STV) is a preferential (rather than voting for a single candidate, voters rank candidates in order of preference) election method designed to achieve proportionality and to minimized wasted votes while preserving the ability to vote for individual candidates.

This first sentence is just a bit awkward to read - the included statement in parenthesis is important, but serves as a mental interruption.  You might simply re-arrange it something like this:

Single Transferable Vote (STV) is a preferential voting system wherein voters rank candidates in order of preference. rather than voting for a single candidate.  This election method is designed to ascertain proportionality and to minimize wasted votes, while preserving the ability to vote for individual candidates.

Quote
This modified STV mirrors standard STV on all accounts except the manner in which candidates are eliminated when necessary. Rather than removing the candidate with the least number of votes the Condorcet loser, that candidate who is least preferred compared to all other candidates, is instead removed.

This is one that I had to re-read twice to understand it well.  It only needs a slight tweaking for better readability, such as:

Rather than removing the candidate with the least number of votes, in the Condorcet version, the candidate who is least preferred compared to all other candidates is instead removed.

Quote
In IRV, candidates are ranked in order of preference, and then the votes for the most preferred candidate on each ballot is tallied. If no candidate holds a majority of votes, the candidate with the lowest number of votes is eliminated and their votes are then transferred to the next ranked candidate on the ballots cast for that candidate. This process is repeated recursively until a single candidate obtains a majority of votes.

This part confused me.  To someone like myself who is not familiar with IRV, it sounds as though when a candidate is removed, all votes that had been cast for him are then transfered to some other candidate, but I'm unclear on "next ranked candidate on the ballots cast for that candidate".  Who are they being transfered to?

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Condorcet voting on the other hand by definition finds and selects as the election's winner the Condorcet winner.

This sentence is awkward as well.  Are you saying that the winner of Condorcet voting is the election's winner?  That sounds redundant, unless it was meant to make some other point.

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IRV however does not satisfy the Condorcet criterion, that is to say that it does not necessarily elect the Condorcet winner, the single candidate who is genuinely overall preferred compared to every other candidate. Condorcet voting on the other hand by definition finds and selects as the election's winner the Condorcet winner. In Condorcet voting, candidates are also ranked. But instead of progressively eliminating candidates and transferring votes, each candidate is instead faced off against every other candidate in a series of pairwise contests, each candidate receiving a vote in each such contest for every ballot casted in which they are ranked higher than their opponent and vice versa. The candidate who wins all of these pairwise contests by a majority of votes in each is the Condorcet winner. The candidate meanwhile who looses all of these pairwise contests is the Condorcet looser.

This is the idea I get from the above, but I'm not certain that it's correct.  It is similar to a point system.  Each candidate is compared to each of the other candidates in pairs, and the one who has received a higher preferential rating in each pair gets one point.  Those points are then compared to determine the candidate to be removed by the lowest number of points received.  Your use of the term 'vote' where I used the word 'point' is what makes me unsure.  It could be that this means instead that an additional vote is added the base votes for each candidate for each pairing that he or she wins.

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The candidate meanwhile who looses all of these pairwise contests is the Condorcet looser.

I don't know how picky your teacher is, but if he or she demands absolute precision, then:

The candidate, meanwhile, who loses the highest amount of these pairwise contests is the Condorcet loser.

Because technically that statement as its written implies that there is only a Condorcet loser if one candidate has lost ALL of the pairings, as opposed to lost more of them than the other candidates.

That's as far as time allows me to read through this paper.  I apologize if that's far too indepth a critique for what you wanted.  I tend to put on my 'editor hat' when I'm doing this sort of thing.
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Offline Teoghlach

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Re: Laymen, Lend me your Ears!
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2007, 03:16:30 PM »
Okay, here's my view; hope it helps! Is this for a high school class, or a university class? I understood it, and I found it to be quite well versed, however I'm an Honours student in Political Science: if I didn't understand it, I'd be in trouble. However, if you wrote it for as the subject says a "layman" to understand it, you might be in trouble.

Here's the thing: for the most part, flowering things only works in gardens. I have a problem where I try to use too... "sophisticated" a vocabulary, and I try to butter up my writing to get more of my own opinion across, and to apply more description. What I've learned, and what I've been taught for years now, is to write something that can be understood by anybody. You know what it means, and the professor knows what it means, yet concise and easily understood arguments are often the most effective. What I would try to do, and it's only a suggestion, maybe it's not what is being asked... :) is to make things as simple as possible, and where you need to use a technical term, explain it. For example,

Single Transferable Vote (STV) is a preferential voting system wherein voters rank candidates in order of preference. rather than voting for a single candidate.  This election method is designed to ascertain proportionality and to minimize wasted votes, while preserving the ability to vote for individual candidates.

There's probably a simpler way to explain STV. I might not know what "proportionality" means in political terms. Later on, you mention "Concordet" voting as well. While I haven't finished my degree yet, and I'm sure it'll come up later, I for one have no clue what that is. :P And I didn't really get a solid gist of it early in the piece.

One way to make things simple: examples! STV could be explained very easily if you used a hypothetical Candidate A, Candidate B, and Candidate C. Just giving you something to think about! :)
« Last Edit: May 17, 2007, 03:19:49 PM by Teoghlach »

Offline Gulliver

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Re: Laymen, Lend me your Ears!
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2007, 08:48:19 PM »
Heh, I am out touch with the vernacular  :P

And yes, I've considered examples. I just ponder how effective they can be with just type alone. Perhaps I should go and dredge up a few pictures, then I might have something...

Offline PoD Gunner

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Re: Laymen, Lend me your Ears!
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2007, 09:15:08 PM »
Quote
vernacular
:D :D :D
It would need a bit of rounding it around the edges, but the job is admirable, Prag.
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Offline Daimiaen

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Re: Laymen, Lend me your Ears!
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2007, 12:20:03 AM »
I got it...you could do with some diagrams and charts....
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Offline tak

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Re: Laymen, Lend me your Ears!
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2007, 12:27:21 AM »
seconded

Offline Stillwaters

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Re: Laymen, Lend me your Ears!
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2007, 05:57:12 PM »
Honestly, I dislike the idea. It appears to be a way of trying to fix something that isn't broken. If this were in place in 2000 Gore may have won the election, which would probably make many of you happy. But, if it were in place in 1992, H.W. Bush would have won the election, which would probably disappoint many of you.

In reality, we have a nation full of people that are pretty incompetent. People can't manage to properly punch holes in a butterfly ballot, there is no way they could do something this complex properly.

Offline Khablan

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Re: Laymen, Lend me your Ears!
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2007, 09:12:48 PM »
Quote
In reality, we have a nation full of people that are pretty incompetent. People can't manage to properly punch holes in a butterfly ballot, there is no way they could do something this complex properly.

Which would be why companies feel the need to equip hair dryers with danger tags stating "Do not immerse in water", rubbing alcohol with "Do not take internally", and a woman has sued McDonald's because she removed the lid from her take-out coffee in a moving vehicle and scalded her lap.  The powers of stupidity never cease to amaze me.
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Offline The Empire

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Re: Laymen, Lend me your Ears!
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2007, 08:48:32 AM »
Your sueing culture might also have something to do with people quitting to think for themselves, why think of what you do when you can blame any accidents on someone else and get money for it?

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Offline Gulliver

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Re: Laymen, Lend me your Ears!
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2007, 10:49:23 AM »
Quote
Honestly, I dislike the idea. It appears to be a way of trying to fix something that isn't broken. If this were in place in 2000 Gore may have won the election, which would probably make many of you happy. But, if it were in place in 1992, H.W. Bush would have won the election, which would probably disappoint many of you.

You wouldn't use STV to elect the president, as that is inherently a single member office.

And there is very much something broken. Consider this:

Last election here in Massachusetts for the federal House of Representatives roughly 80% voted Democratic, roughly 20% Republican. We have 10 seats, so there are certainly enough to provide for some proportionality. But because we use FPTP, the resulting legislature elected for this state is not 80% Democratic, 20% Republican, but 100% Democratic. In short, 1/5 of the population at least is unrepresented in the legislature, and that is simply unacceptable. Everyone is entitled to be represented the policy making process, and while perfect representation is impossible something as egregious as a 20% deviation from proportionality is simply absurd.

This has nothing to do with voter competence and intellect, because it doesn't matter how smart the voters are if the system they use is a poor electoral system. Indeed, this system relies on the assumption that voters are at the very least not absolutely stupid and can grasp the concept of ranking candidates.