Forget Chavez's oppression of freedom of speech, Bush invaded Iraq!

[Khem]

Liberal is left as socialism is, but there is still a large gap in between the two. I agree, I don't like Bush, but only because he makes awful decisions and has probably made some lies to the American people. I hate the people with "Impeach Bush" bumper stickers. I always ask them, "For what?" The man hasn't done anything wrong, he's just been an idiot. Maybe it did bend the truth a little, but if you can show me proof, I will lick my own balls. Bush may have problems, but he is still my president and I respect him none-the-less, and I would definitely prefer him to a fascist, which is what Chavez is close to becoming.

hmm perhaps impeach him for leading us into a war under false pretenses. he fucking lied about the weapons of mass destruction while not pursuing someone who is clearly dangerous such as bin ladin. sorry but lying to the public is just plain fucked up and should be grounds for his removal.

[Algerianbania]

First of all, he isn't smart enough to lie. He does what ever Cheney tells him to do. Collin Powel knew this and that's why he left office. And second of all, again find me proof. I totally agree with you, but I am afraid that that man cannot be touched.

[Khablan]

The cuddly panda is right.  The best we can do is wait until his term runs out. 

sorry but lying to the public is just plain fucked up and should be grounds for his removal.

Then you'll have to remove all politicians.  They all bend the truth in order to convince people whatever they want them to believe.  Generally, they're good enough at it that it goes unnoticed.  Where the Bush administration tripped up is that they're shortsighted and don't consider what will happen when the public finds out.  They're like the kid who lies to his parents about a class they're failing, even though the parents are going to see that report card soon.  Either they overestimate the 'sheep' quality of the people, or they figure they'll cross that bridge when they come to it.  Or perhaps they were simply betting on us realizing things too late to do anything about it, as has certainly been the case.  Bush is too well-connected to be vulnerable, and he wasn't going to be able to do a third term anyway.  Capitalism leads our government around by the nose.

[Delfos]

patriotism happens to be close to nationalism, which makes Empire's assumption correct in my point of view.

About the REAL on topic. Idiots are the ones that call other idiots showing one side of the coin. I support the Socialist Revolution in Venezuela, and I support most of Hugo Chavez acts. OFC i took a hit with this measure, but this was in discussion a while ago. Happens the TV station made international polemic case about this, after Hugo Chavez saying he wouldn't sign the contract. This can be viewed as an 'opression' of free speech, and/or maintaining the interests of the people towards the government, and/or the end of a news network supported by the opposition.

Doesn't that happen in the US? If i recall right, Bush's brother or cousin or whatever used FOX News or whatever to say Bush was in the lead when he was tied? Also, happens that some of the videos shown anywhere can be removed by the government? Also, how many cineasts (how you call them?) had problems with the government when picturing a dark side of US government?

plus: "Forget Chavez's oppression of freedom of speech, Bush invaded Iraq!" <- Want me to compare what's worse? Chavez just didn't renewed/signed a piece of paper, while thousands are dieing in Iraq because Bush farted away.

[Solnath]

The US has the FCC, an appointed body - not elected - that regulates all broadcasting, if I recall correctly.

[Delfos]

yes that, thank you.

 

[Of Crazed]

The FCC is a far different subject then what Hugo Chavez did by just refusing an opposing news cast the right to air.  Sure, I don't recall the FCC shutting down a network because its political opinions were to "radical".  If I am wrong, I am wrong, but the FCC, in my knowledge monitors programming for things like cursing and pornography so children are not exposed to it.

I think what Hugo Chavez did was wrong.  Maybe it was right for him, but it's not good for the future of free press in Venezuela.  But hey, I guess free press is something you sacrifice when you want the government to control everything.

As for the Bush statements, I don't get what they have to do with anything.

The patriot act does have something to do with it.  I really feel civil liberties and rights should not be sacrificed for anything.  Americans gave up their lives to protect them.  The fact that my government can monitor my phone call, sickens me.  It is my right to make a private phone call to someone else.  Then supporters of the act say, "Well if you got nothing to hide what do you fear? or They wont listen to your petty conversation."  I have a lot to fear, that the next step they can charge people with 'treason' with just information based on a random telephone call.  As far as they wont listen to my petty conversations, there is no one to keep track of if they do or not.

Then there is the worst thing, I know I would listen to peoples petty conversations if I monitored phone calls

And PUR, Bush should get impeached for lieing?  Might as well kick out the entire White House.

[Solnath]

There's a difference towards children between pornography and anti-governmental broadcasting? Both traumatise, the latter one maybe even more effectively.

[Ranholn]

patriot act means that if they suspect you of terrorism they dont need a warrent, just a guy with a hunch

[Delfos]

let's not drag this to the oppression of freedom of speech, he just didn't sign the piece of paper that would allow the tv station work along, their contract ended. Hugo Chavez didn't end anything, the contract did.

I do think what he have done is wrong (because it leads to oppression of freedom of speech and alot of us said) but i hope there's a greater good on this. You see? We have a similar problem here in Portugal. The majority of the press makes up stories that ends up destroying ideals. Whether they are true or not. For example, when the fire season broke out, all blame was made to the socialist government, how the heck the government has the blame for the fire season? it actually is the government that most supported the controlling of the forests and all that. See? I know few friends of mine that weren't well inside politics, end up claiming the prime-minister is a bastard when the government is one of the best we've had since the revolution. They are closing our debt, not enlarging it like former governments. Although there's alot of polemic issues about the state workers and all that. But the problem with this, is how the press handles the facts, facts that become lies and hypothetical and purely subjective. "The prime-minister is a bastard because he went to a school known for it's corruption brought to light recently." <- like...wtf? What do i even care? As long as he's a good prime-minister, he could even be cheating on his wife with secretaries under the table.

And there's how Paul Wolfovitz is a different case. I hope this last one appointed is good,his background doesn't give me much confidence. Only shows the hierarchy system in USA.

[The Empire]

Also, I belive US politicians passed a law not long ago that widened the "patriot act" to encompass even non-US citizens all over the world to be arrested and held without trial for indefinate amounts of time on suspicions of "terrorist activities" regardless of current location... That if anything is a HUGE show of arrogance on the part of the US government...

[Myroria]

Wow, I never knew they did that.

[The Empire]

Well, what do you think Gitmo is used for and why those held there are refused civilian courts?
Because they shouldn't be there in the first place! duh...
The place IS a CONCENTRATION CAMP, more or less exactly like the german ones between 1938 and until the "final sollution" was commenced.

[Delfos]

geez, ok: Guantanamo goes against any policy, people there do not have the right to fair trial, people there are tortured, people there sit 5years or more for a trial (what do they do with spare time? getting spank?), there is violation of human rights all the way. This brings the illegal CIA prisons issue. But i thought we were discussing differences...oh yes, differences. Could you light up violations of human rights in Venezuela?

[The Empire]

Before or during Chavez?