EU-AU - December, Portugal.

[Delfos]

Gordon Brown isn't coming for the European Union - African Union meeting in December in Portugal. All because President of Zimbabwe is going. Portuguese government says there won't be discrimination in the invitations, so Zimbabwe is 'welcome'. Don't you think it's worse to not show up in such important meetings? Like USA whenever an Islamic state goes to UN...or Israel when Palestine goes to UN...Why missing this meetings? Why not protest against instead? Afraid of facing the people that your government accuses?

"Yay lets make a strike!"
"No wait, lets just not go to work today..."

[Akka-Wakka]

Personally, I think Gordon Brown has done something that Tony Blair never seemed to have to courage to do.  Actively show he is against Robert Mugabe's desecration of Zimbabwe.

I don't know what you've heard about the current situation in Zimbabwe, or what you know of it, or what personal experiences you've had, but I have one question for the world in general.  Where is the "War on Tyranny"?  Western governments have gone to war with Afghanistan and Iraq claiming that they are there to bring freedom and democracy.  So what?  At least people there weren't dying by their tens of thousands because they used to work for someone with a different skin colour.  In the UN's Human Rights Charter, the first and most sacred right anyone has is their right to life.  Mugabe has taken a country that was once the richest in Africa, and turned it into a cesspit or rotting decency.  You want to make the world a better place?  Simple. Don't screw around, pretending to be all virtuous but doing nothing about the Robert Mubages of this world.  Once you can safely say that someone else will be alive in the morning because of something you did then it might be time to worry about other things.

[Delfos]

true, all agreeable, we gone to Iraq and Afgh. to bomb civilians and few talibans, why not Zimbabwe? or Byrmania? But still i don't see what good will Gordon Brown achieve in not going to the meeting, nor i see what good Socrates achieve in not inviting Mugabe.

[Akka-Wakka]

If Briton, one of the largest economy's in the EU isn't at the meet, then is it really a very representative meet?

[Delfos]

sure, Germany is stronger politically and economically to EU than Britain (thank god), and France is stronger politically (at least when Chirac was on), and this meeting is political, it's a meeting of governments, not presidents. two unions together for cooperation, that's why England should come. EU is representative, if England doesn't come they won't be int he role to decide what EU should do. It's dangerous.

example, if USA doesn't go to UN will not UN resolve anything?

[Osamafune]

true, all agreeable, we gone to Iraq and Afgh. to bomb civilians and few talibans, why not Zimbabwe? or Byrmania? But still i don't see what good will Gordon Brown achieve in not going to the meeting, nor i see what good Socrates achieve in not inviting Mugabe.

Because there weren't anybody in those countries willing to go as far as a 9/11 or a London/Madrid-style attack like Al Qaeda/the Taliban in Afghanistan (and now in Iraq thanks to Bush).

[Meridianland]

Where is the "War on Tyranny"?  Western governments have gone to war with Afghanistan and Iraq claiming that they are there to bring freedom and democracy.

They're not there to bring democracy.  Its about access to resources.  The US was fine and dandy with Saddam until they decided he got a little too much in the way.  The "War on Tyranny"  is waged by the tyrants.

true, all agreeable, we gone to Iraq and Afgh. to bomb civilians and few talibans, why not Zimbabwe? or Byrmania?

  Because getting the resources "we" want from there isn't a problem right at this moment.  If it became one, there would be troop sent, or some kind of serious destabilation ops like what happened in Central America will get amped up.

I think it would be nice for Brown to go, meet Mugabe, hear about his kids' kindergarten teacher, share a drink, talk about strategies for dealing with their prostate problems.... 

[Akka-Wakka]

sure, Germany is stronger politically and economically to EU than Britain (thank god), and France is stronger politically (at least when Chirac was on), and this meeting is political, it's a meeting of governments, not presidents. two unions together for cooperation, that's why England should come. EU is representative, if England doesn't come they won't be int he role to decide what EU should do. It's dangerous.

Cooperation?  I hate to break it to you, but there will be nothing of the sort, or if there is, it'll be something like Mugabe saying:  I'll order, you pay.  It's happened every other time there has been a meet.  You know why?  Just about every other dictator in Africa agrees with him.  There is no negotiation.  There is no cooperation.  The only thing that could work is definite action that can only be interpreted (By Mugabe and the rest of Africa) as: We are not happy with the current situation.  Fix it.

Just to give you an example of what I mean.  If South Africa were to stop supplying Electricity and Water to Zimbabwe, the country would collapse completely overnight.  Not even Mugabe himself would be able to brush his teeth without using water that had fifty million different germs in it.  Personally, I am ashamed that my own country has, by proxy, let such a mess continue, but that is Africa for you.

example, if USA doesn't go to UN will not UN resolve anything?

Bad example.  Sure, the UN can resolve all it likes.  However, the US being the biggest economy in the world and all, if they are still doing what they like, it's going to put a really big dent in any of these resolutions.

[Delfos]

You have extreme view of African leaders, there's benevolent dictators and fascist dictators in Africa but there's other types more free than dictatorships. And even with dictatorships EU always have been the biggest supporter in humanitarian aid. We want to end the crisis in Darfur and all, it's not all about resources. Maybe for Americans yes, otherwise they wouldn't even dare to defy Iran. Just go to Google Earth and compare Iraq with Iran...if US forces are having such trouble in Iraq imagine in Iran.
Another problem is the Chinese 'invasion' in Africa, EU wants to offer the African quality products, I thinks it's more than understood about the lack of quality Chinese products and contracts have. No coal please, let us sell you our windmills.

[Akka-Wakka]

Yeah, whatever.

[Aquatoria]

It's true. But the problem is that all those small African nations...hell all of them can't trurly reach their highest putintal until they unite as a single United States of Africa. They were going to do it back when they were gaining independence, but the local warlords and dictators shot that idea to hell. But maybe this African Union might save it in the future. The African Union fifty years down the road, might be different than the African Union we see today.

[Delfos]

You have allot of ideal about united states...EU is doing fine without that kind of union, and AU should do fine too if they start to realise they have to overthrow this evil spirits. National Identity is very important in this kind of unions, we like diversity...look at 'American Suburbs' and look at our 'suburbs', look at American culture, look at our culture. We don't even have a singular language, most poken language in EU council might be French, others talk in English, who cares, there's translators and some don't need them.