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Author Topic: Charter Question  (Read 3593 times)

Offline Flemingovia

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Charter Question
« on: January 06, 2007, 01:10:17 PM »
If I could start the ball rolling with a question about the charter?

I am wondering why section VII has been included:

Quote
Article VII: Signing and Ratification

1. All former senators of the Lexicon shall be allowed to freely sign this document.

2. This document shall require the signature of three quarters of those former senators of the Lexicon present at the time of signing.


Is it a good idea to include in the Taijitu reference to other regions, whether the Lexicon or anywhere else?

I do not understand clause 1. Is there any circumstances in which former senators of the Lexicon would NOT be allowed to sign?

I am sure it has all been thought out, I just cannot obviously see the logic.

Offline Sovereign Dixie

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Re: Charter Question
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2007, 01:43:41 PM »
 Basically, our reasoning behind it was as follows.

 We feel that we have a duty to make sure that all of those we were responsible for in the Lexicon know that they have a home here, should they choose to take us up on it. We do this out of loyalty to those individuals, not to the Lex. We just felt it was the right thing to do.

 We are going to press on, I think we've done an excellent job at establishing our own identity so far, and we'll continue to do so. We just kinda felt that this is one of the things that needs to be done, though, in order to gain "closure" and to bridge the gap between what once was, and what we have created here. As time goes on, that section of the Constitution will become all but irrelevant. But serves a purpose for the time being, while many are still confused as to what exactly happened.

 As for your second question, I can't think of a circumstance which would preclude a former senator from being allowed to sign, though that doesnt mean one doesnt exist. There would probably have to be some major conflict of interest, though I dont know what form that would take. It's a very unlikely scenario.


Offline Baltija

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Re: Charter Question
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2007, 02:11:19 PM »
May I ask why only Senators are allowed? If the reason is bannings, I think where were simple citizens banned too. Also some Senators (me and TGR, and I think few others), left Lex with their free will.

I am not cricising anything, just asking for a clarification.

Offline Gulliver

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Re: Charter Question
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2007, 04:26:09 PM »
Ah, glad to see I've finally sparked interest here! ;D

To be honest, I had the very same concern as you raise here Flem; that is to say reference to another region. Unfortunately, as of yet I cannot think of a better way to word it. Just who can sign it is indeed important as Article II Section 3 states:

Quote
3. The undersigned shall be granted the office of Senator at the time of the ratification of this document, excepting those who choose to forgo the office.

...the reason for this being that it wouldn't do for us to wait around to be reviewed and voted into office by an empty Senate.

And as to Section 1, that's a matter of misinterpretation. That's not meant to ensure that all Senators can sign so much as only Senators can sign (perhaps I should clarify that...). Which brings me to Baltija's question. Orginally, it had been open to signing by all former citizens of the Lex, but then of course we return to the whole issue of Article II, Section 3. If all citizens were to sign... well the possibilities are self evident. Random former citizens could all just rush in to sign and then never return, leaving us with a legislative more lazy than the US 109th!

Part of the problem is also that for the sake of efficiency I want to keep this as short as possible, and that unfortunately requires at times generalization.

Still, I would like to get rid of mention of another region. Suggestions on how to do that?

Offline Morthia

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Re: Charter Question
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2007, 04:53:02 PM »
Don't. Just move to remove it from the charter once it has passed. You could then change it back to the citizens, because, after a brief time, the opportunity shall be closed.

Where do I sign?




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Offline Eluvatar

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Re: Charter Question
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2007, 05:19:35 PM »
The constitution isn't quite ready for signing yet, my apologies.

However I think that perhaps signing will happen on the Wiki, so it may be a good idea to register an account on the Wiki in advance :)
                                 
(click to show/hide)

Offline Flemingovia

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Re: Charter Question
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2007, 05:54:41 PM »
So.... what you are basically saying is that whoever was a senator in the Lexicon is able to automatically be a senator in Taijitu?

That makes sense to me - gives you an automatic core of government, and since you were the guys who did the checking in the Lex is is sensible not to re-invent the wheel.

Offline Gulliver

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Re: Charter Question
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2007, 06:04:29 PM »
Actually, I just realized that I could open the signing to all citizens and just change Article II Section 3 to induct only the undersigned who were once  Senators...yes, I like that.

But not now. Things to do. And there are change upon changes I keep fighting.

Offline Daimiaen

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Re: Charter Question
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2007, 09:13:34 PM »
So are you going to only let former Lexiconers into any positions of power???
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Offline Ryazania

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Re: Charter Question
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2007, 09:17:14 PM »
Do I count as a former Senator?
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When the government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.

Tyrants from Hitler to Mao to Stalin have sought to disarm their own citizens, for the simple reason that unarmed people are easier to control.


Offline Gulliver

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Re: Charter Question
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2007, 10:01:37 PM »
No no no Dai! Never fear! Granted, only former Lexers will be inducted into the initial government established here, a continuation of sorts of what we had before. But once we've actually got a functioning government here then you will be absolutely free to get citizenship, join the Senate, and run for various government office as  guaranteed by the charter.Unfortunately, letting just everyone into any initial government of course gets messy very fast, and open to quite a bit of sabotage.

And as to you Ryaz, as it stands you do technically qualify.

Offline Daimiaen

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Re: Charter Question
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2007, 10:12:30 PM »
Fair enough....I stand reassured....And look forward to a more active participation in the near future....

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Offline Gulliver

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Re: Charter Question
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2007, 10:27:04 PM »
Hm, actually the way I might be trending now you could actually become of the signatories if you go and sign up for the unofficial interim citizenship, which would then of course become official with everyone elses. Obviously, no free ride into the Senate but I certainly hope you weren't expecting that  :P

Offline Durnia

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Re: Charter Question
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2007, 11:52:22 PM »
Here's a harder question.

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Offline PoD Gunner

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Re: Charter Question
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2007, 06:37:44 AM »
Hmm...interesting.
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