Bush U-turns in environmentalism

[Solnath]

We're not going to destroy the planet, just make it uninhabitable for (modern) human civilisation. Take my word for it, the world would be a much better place with less people.

[Delfos]

French Super-markets sell very low price food out of the super-market to the poor, pitty it's all out of consumption time. Bloody bastards, instead of giving it away...how the world gone end up.

I know that they complain about environmentalism, don't try to lecture me. Plus you talk about generalizing and hypocrisy, look at your statement.

[Myroria]

Or look at your nationalism. "Portugal this, Portugal that, Portugal is the best place in the world and any American who dares disagree is a right-wing Bushie."

^Which is hypocritical because liberals are traditionally internationalist to a degree, i.e., they believe in international organisations or a world government.

[LLANYDERN]

Its been worked out that if we went into it fully, britain could provide something like 500% of our energy needs with renewables (wind and tide mainly).

Nuclear power is a really bad idea, its inefficient, dangerous and also the idea that its carbon neutral is laughable (it has to be built, and then stored for ever and a day).

Also to hit you in your capitalist sensibilities it cannot be run at anything other then a loss if there are other competing fuel sources.

The only nation it makes any sense for is japan and that's very specialist conditions.

Also portugal is quite nice I wouldn't be opposed to living there.

Though there are a few areas of america I wouldn't mind living in.

[Solnath]

Luckily for nuclear power, fusion is entering the game in 2050.

[Delfos]

who spoke of daring Americans? Yes I'm patriotic to a degree, as I'm socialist or Communist to a degree. So if you follow your own 'degree' theory you'll find that people are not just that or other that.

Told Portuguese products without telling the brands because you wouldn't recognize it, like: Azeite Gallo? EDP? Plus i support myself in either studies or my own point of view. I rather portuguese and french wines to spainish or any other, do i rather all portuguese or all french? there's cheap portuguese wine that seems more like donkey piss. I'm also able to criticise my own country, something that a nationalist wouldn't do. Like yourself. And i can't fully understand how a nationalist can go along with raw libertarian...libertation of your self but national ego/conservatism stays? this isn't any issue worth discussing, so stop calling people hypocrites about psycho-hypothetical contradictions when you contradict yourself.

[Khablan]

Alright.  A dose of reality now.

Bush has flip-flopped on it because:
1.  it's another attempt to steer the American public's eye away from what they're complaining about, which is Iraq etc.  
2.  extend that to the international Bush-bashers - same motivation.  People are stupid.  Just give them something else to think about to divert their attention.

I would have thought that to be obvious to everyone.  Isn't #1 exactly what he's been doing all along?  Gay marriage, terrorism, WMD... really, can anyone miss this?  Sleight of hand tricks.  Get them to look at your left hand so they don't see what your right hand is doing.  When he feels that the opposition is becoming too strong, he yells "Hey, look at that!" and while we're looking, does what he wants as quickly as possible before we look back.

And Delfos, if Americans cared so little about the environment, Bush wouldn't be using that to make us look away.  He'd be choosing something that did matter to us.

End of reality check.  I now return you to your previously scheduled American-bashing.

[Delfos]

i like your post, but i disagree with the american-bashing. You say about diversion and even others said about giving what people want. I think it's also a way to be more acceptable by the EU. I guess the 2 issues you mentioned can be related to EU because of the anti-missile shield US wants to install in europe. I hope Portugal fails the installation of such system we actually have good relation with Russia (thank god), doesn't mean we approve what is happening there. Plus I'm generalizing. This failing doesn't only mean we have good relations with Russia, i personally think the system sucks for itself, and it's both useless and a provocation.

So yes...this U-turn can be just another scam.

[Of Crazed]

Are you saying Bush is changing his stance to being pro-environment?  If so thats a good thing, despite previous statement or motives in it. 

[Khablan]

Well, I'll agree with you there, OC, providing that he is going to take serious steps and it isn't all just so much hot air.  You're right - his motivation for doing so isn't as important as the outcome if it means real improvement.

[Of Crazed]

Even if he does not take real steps, just his words of support do a lot.  It could end the fact the helping the environment is one party idea, and that both parties are willing to support our Earth.  Regardless it is a step in the right direction. 

[tak]

I would hope that this will go well, regardless of the intension of the Bush administration. But I am less optimistic than most here.

Bush utterly refused to cooperate in climate goals in G8, and they were the only country not cooperating. In the new plan, he purposely included "developing countries", that include China and India. Either those countries have greater difficulties in achieving the set goals, or Bush just want to lobby those countries to set the goals lower. I bleieve his was doing this simpply to buy time and look good amid the current pressure within and outside the US.

[Eientei]

7.5 billion can be supported on a long-term basis with a strict vegan diet and excessive recycling. Don't see that happening any time soon. People will learn when it's too late, like they always do, unless someone intervenes.

Strict vegan diet?  I think I'd rather kill myself.  Maybe that would be a nice way to cut down the world population to more manageable levels, actually.

[Delfos]

Soly are you vegetarian? as in only eat vegetables?

What you say can be true, but sounds to me some kind of brainwash :p do you participate on vegetarian conventions or something? Animals and Fish are very important too in a balanced healthy diet. Can you imagine people that work on heavy labor eating vegetables only? Poor guys.

Birth control isn't that bad, but it's not very effective. Happens that where there's more hunger is where there's more children per parents..actually per mothers. If fathers would be kept responsible for this, human population would drop. Another way is the creation of national sperm banks and people get sterilised after 1st or 2nd children. If they divorced they could get their wife pregnant with sperm in the bank.

[Solnath]

Delf, I love meat. Hence, I support genocide.

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I think it was Stanford University that did the study on long-term preservation of the species.