Bush's missiles

[Delfos]

'The republican dream of star wars", installing missile silos in eastern Europe countries and a big radar.

"The cold war is over, has ended." Said with a silly smile didn't convince me. Both new Russian missile and  Iranian missiles can avoid detection and anti-missile systems easily. North Korea doesn't have enough range to hit any European country, so why installing missiles around Russia?

This was discussed in other topics, but never got deep enough. Plus it's a political-military issue, i bet alot of Americans will like to discuss about this. Post your thoughts.

[The Empire]

Well, I for one don't think the American administration has any right to put European lives on the line by provoking the Russians, especially not with a "missile defence" that's as leaky as a siv.

A working missile defence would be good to have, but if it's going in Europe it HAS to be European, ALL THE WAY. If the US wants a missile defence they can build it on their own territory, like in Alaska and their two sea-boards. If that's not preemptive enough, well, tough luck on them.

Imo, the US has become just as big a threat as the Russians, and that's from a guy who's country has had beefs with Russia since the 11th century and earlier still. Thus, I want neither in by back yard. If one of the blocks two biggest bullies has always hung around your back yard, it makes very little sense to let the second one in too...

[tak]

Actually the US is a much bigger threat to Europe than Russia. The US has a much greater influence in the ex-Soviet bloc (esp. Central Europe) than Russia. The worst part is that their people trust the US a lot more than the Western Europe (esp. what they considered "humiliation" when they entered the EU).

With almost evil intent of the US and the willing allies in Eastern Europe, the US is simply planting bombs in Europe.

As for Russia, they do not like the loss of influence in the region, however, they have not even tried to secure their interest more than diplomatic means. Without the provocation from the US, I see no reason the they are considered a serious threat to Europe.

[Delfos]

What tak say is very true, the eastern Europe including the Balkans is very influenced by USA. Even the values and culture (which is amasing). Same thing happened to Japan after WWII...

Also, about a documentary i saw about this missile defense, one of those scientists that were involved said something i will never forget: "this system is as effective as throwing a rock towards an incoming missile"

Plus Russia shown that this system can be avoided, so why do USA insists building a missile defense here?

What tak said was true, but more true in inner country than the government itself. Some are very pro-EU and disagree with this system, their main concern is actually Russia. I guess there's a 'split to rule' initiative here. :p

[tak]

So far, what I have observed is that the people of Central European countries are the most Euro-sceptic. From what I have heard from the locals (mostly CZ, some SK, PL and H), they believed that the US has haelped a lot more in the economic reforms than those "selfish" (Western) Europeans.

I could say less for the Baltic countries, as I had not stayed there as long and met as many locals, people are more Euro-centric, though they are still more pro-US than pro-Europe.

The great influence that the US enjoys in the region has largely due to the (relatively) lack of help from other European contries when the ex-Soviet bolc countries were restucturing their economies. Now, sadly, the Bush administration is harvesting (exploiting) the trust the previous administration's fruit of trust-building.

[The Empire]

I for one will ALWAYS considder Russia a big threat, and I belive Soly agrees with me fully on that...
They have always been on our doorstep and now they are planning a gas-pipeline that will be only kilometers from Swedish waters and will be going straight through one of the environmentally most sensitive and valuable areas in Europe. Not to mention that those very seabeds are more or less covered in junk from both WWI and WWII, sunken mines, unexploded ordnance, countless barrels and shells of mustard gas and other chemical weapons.

This is one time where the EU has the chance to put it's foot down at both US and Russia, establishing itself as an entity on it's own that's not to be pushed around.
If our politicians fail to do that, I belive it is in our right as European citizens to replace our current ones with people who has both the guts and the will to stand up for the Europeean populace.

[Delfos]

we consider central Europe= Luxembourg, Germany, Netherlands, center of center= Switzerland :p Estonia is far eastern block, etc.

There is eastern block skepticism, about EU generally (western block is none sense, we have no strong judgment/influence on the EU central bank, Germany, Netherlands and do on have). I think what you heard was the west, since the rest of Europe is west of them :p the rest of Europe is east of me.

But there is alot of pro-EU in power, and it's the most reasonable people since they rather fear for what's going to happen after installing the missiles than optimism of installing USA missiles to protect them. Russia already threatened to aim missiles towards EU if this happens, I don't want to become an European Israel sanctioned/hated by other countries and puppet of USA.

No other reason would lead most of the eastern European governments to try to join EU. Their markets are parallel to USA, they had alot of boom, but their economy is fragile, and becoming more and more fragile with the USA tension anywhere about oil exploitation. Here in the western area we tend to get as far as we can from USA's markets, independent all the way, so we cannot rely in the American Oil.

[tak]

To clarify, where I have said as "Central Europe" breifly include PL, CZ, SK, H and A; whle D westward considered "west", and ROM eastward as "east".

[The Empire]

Eastern europe is generally everything east of the Germany-Austria-Italy axis

[tak]

Many Poles. Czechs and Hungarians are offended by being called "Eastern Europeans", especially for Czechs , for Prague being geographically north-west of Vienna.

[Hendrix]

So its clear chaps,
Paint your windows white, pull of your doors, lean them against the wall, and cover them with matresses, stock up on water and scoff... make sure you keep the radio on.

Remember, when the blast happens dont look at it, drop to the floor and face the blast, lay on your hand and wait. Remember the positive blast wave if followed by the negative one, which will come in from behind....

sorry... i just like to be prepared, everyone go out and rent a copy of 'threads'

and if you want more nuclear/biological/chemical defence drills, let me know 

[Romanar]

And don't forget the duct tape & plastic.   

[The Empire]

Also, Don't forget to stock up on Iodine solution, thick, non-porous clothing and get extended filters for your gas-masks. A healthy supply of high-grade sunblock and lead in sheets or wafers isn't going to hurt either.

[Of Crazed]

The thing that really bothers me about this shield is the fact that is basically takes a piss on our foreign policy, something that the current administration is rather fond of doing.  Now correct me if I am wrong, but a far better way to "protect" ourselves in America is to establish Allies that will help us in counter terrorist intel, and discuss how Iran is a threat. 

Also the USA might want to try asking the country it is building it in, and the neighbors before installing this crap.

[Delfos]

that's the thing, most of the Europeans do not consider Iran as a threat as far as i know. We haven't done anything against them and they actually fancy doing business with us. Just leave Iran in peace and prosperity before a Iranian Vietnam after Iraqi Vietnam