'Just War'

[Solnath]

By the way, does anyone here care whether a war - or any other action for that matter - is just?

[Hendrix]

What is just? no matter what you say, war is Just for one side, and un-just for the other.

An army cant fight if it doesnt believe what its fighting for is just. Trust me, im probably one of the very few people on this board who has had the misfortune of having to fight, and when your laying on the ground with someone spraying automatic rounds over your head, you dont care whether you should be there on not.

To decide wether a war is just or not, you have to look more deeply, you can argue for any war human-kind has ever had, was the alliance wrong for going into Iraq? well some say they were, for whatever reason, some say they are not? what difference does it make to the people of Iraq? none, it just means someone else is responsible for the countless deaths these people have to suffer. Vietnam, another prime example, should America of got involved? What give The US and UK governments the right to interfere in other nations doings, why are we so mighty? You can sit here and argue wether war is just or not, as long as you can sit here argue wether a glass is half-full or half-empty.

[Delfos]

this guy is good to explain the self-defense issue. Could you apply that to people vs criminals instead of nations so that they see the self-defense issue you were explaining above? It's probably easier and will 'unjust' the killing of the criminal.

The crime is done, he must repay the society for his crime, money? jail? forced social work? why not just killing him?

Let's not forget most actions from people to self-defense are made before a crime has been commit. So the 'criminal' is actually innocent. I see a guy pointing me a gun, BANG i shoot him. "self-defense, self-defense!" he didn't even shot anyone, he's as guilty as you are. That's how i see it...
(omg i just moved a dead discussion to an active topic)

~Plus Hendrix says exactly what i think. Specially in wonder why do Americans think they are so mighty :p

[Khablan]

There you go again, Delfos, stereotyping us.  I personally don't think I'm any different, mightier, better or worse in any way, than anyone else in the world.  So there goes another one of your theories of how Americans think.

By the way, does anyone here care whether a war - or any other action for that matter - is just?

I do.  If people are dying, there had better be a darn good reason to make it necessary.

[Solnath]

I think the oldest one is the best one. They pray to a different invisible man apart from the one you do.

[Delfos]

So Hendrix was referring to him and his parents when he said 'we'? What's the matter with stereotyping? Most of the posts in this topic stereotype. What's so Taboo?

[Hendrix]

the government of any democratic society if a physical representation of the people it serves, it the government decides that that country is going to do something, then usually it is the will of the majority of the people, therefore, i stand by my recent comment, the US and the UK do believe they are higher and mightier than most countries, however we digress from the point, i still believe that all wars are just for one side, and un-just for the other.

[Khablan]

the government of any democratic society if a physical representation of the people it serves, it the government decides that that country is going to do something, then usually it is the will of the majority of the people

Alright, let's analyze that.  At every election, we are given two possible choices, neither of which are necessarily good.  I personally know absolutely no one who didn't feel that they were voting for the lesser of two evils in the last few presidential elections.  The one who wins is generally the one who can most successfully convince us that he will be the most accurate representation of the majority's opinions and morals, through rhetoric and manipulation.  What he does once in office may be in complete opposition to what the majority would want, yet we're stuck with him for the next four years.  Bush is a prime example.

So in essence, politicians are elected in the hopes that they will represent the majority but it does not necessarily follow that their actions will meet that goal.

[Hendrix]

its not a hope that political elections will represent the majority, they DO represent the majority, if 40%vote for A, 50% for B, and 10% third party, then the majority is B. Democracy by its very nature means that some people's votes will raise a winning party, and some people votes will not, otherwise there would be no need for democracy if everyone wanted the same thing.

[Delfos]

if you do not agree with either choice, you can vote blank, or not vote at all. That's why there's those possibilities. If a large majority votes blank or doesn't vote at all in an election, the government/president (depending which election it is) can call for a delay, like another election in 6 months. This doesn't happen much because people tend to vote whether they like it or not. Voting in something you believe is better than the other is already good. Not voting at all is bad, because your person didn't elect anything. That's why that USA government does a bad role in UN when it refuses to come when Iran (for instance) is at discussion. If you ain't there, you do not have a word.

[Talmann]

Actually, (and you Bush-haters should know this already) recently America's been voting by less than half the voting population (49%, i believe). So if you get 50% of 50%, than you're really only supported by a quarter of voters.

[The Empire]

And that low voting percentage screws any democratic system over big time. Any election with less than 70% of the population participating should be void by default and result in automatic reelection,

[Hendrix]

but then a portion of the population could simply boycott any vote if they thought they would not win.

[Cartwrightia]

Hendrix, as a Brit I would have thought you know that the current government received fewer votes overall than the Tories last time around, but because of our system, Labour still won.  Democracy in this country is not even a tyranny of the majority.

[Hendrix]

Politicians, they're all thieving bastards. I live in London, and all that the Livingstone has done is increase the bus fare to £2 and £10 odd to go into the city in your own car.