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News: Citoyen reminder: Socioendangerment levels run from one to sixteen. Cooperation with mandatory sentencing from the Citoyen-Mediator may result in decreased rehabilitation length.

Poll

What system shall we implement?

A) Keep current - open nominations
2 (28.6%)
B) Monarchy - King regent McMasterdonia
2 (28.6%)
C) Participative Democracy - Council of Taijitu
3 (42.9%)

Total Members Voted: 7

Author Topic: Delecacy poll  (Read 6012 times)

Offline Delfos

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Delecacy poll
« on: November 04, 2013, 04:14:14 AM »
Lets try to make this a bit more simple.

Offline McMasterdonia

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Re: Delecacy poll
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2013, 04:33:52 AM »
I love delecacy!
Ur a towel


Offline Eluvatar

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Re: Delecacy poll
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2013, 05:23:32 AM »
What is the Council?
                                 
(click to show/hide)

Offline Delfos

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Re: Delecacy poll
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2013, 05:38:12 AM »
it is a people's assembly, an assembly where everything about Taijitu can be discussed and decided, where a World Assembly Delegate would only act through the will of such assembly, therefore not necessarily needing elections since a free assembly with free association would rule who would perform the duties of the WAD or other ministries through pure necessity.

Participative Democracy
Participism

Offline Lapeirousia

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Re: Delecacy poll
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2013, 07:01:46 PM »
I voted for C but am hoping we can still keep the wiki and do some work on it.
Niadh Tabaqui Dion Diablessa

Offline McMasterdonia

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Re: Delecacy poll
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2013, 03:09:19 AM »
I disagree that the World Assembly Delegate should simply be the puppet of the assembly. We need checks and balances, a strong executive and legislative arm and an independent judiciary.
Ur a towel


Offline Delfos

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Re: Delecacy poll
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2013, 04:28:24 AM »
under the constitution he has to serve the People, which hasn't been done since I was WAD, almost a year ago. Checks and balances the People can do, the stronger and most direct is democracy, the stronger executive/legislative body is.

Offline McMasterdonia

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Re: Delecacy poll
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2013, 09:33:13 AM »
No. What you suggested is that the WAD could only act through the will of the assembly. Unless I am not understanding your suggestion.

We recognised that the constitutional arrangements were not working and Oz became the Delegate. He can hardly be faulted. The constitutional arrangements have not worked since Gulliver left office. Even then, we only had a very small active community here and the system didn't really provide for much change.
Ur a towel


Offline Lapeirousia

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Re: Delecacy poll
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2013, 01:31:50 PM »
I think you're missing the point really.  St Oz can hardly be said to be serving the people, even if you come to the bizarre conclusion that Senators are not people.

Oz has persevered in a difficult job, yes, but he does not do what we want him to do.
Niadh Tabaqui Dion Diablessa

Offline Delfos

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Re: Delecacy poll
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2013, 03:48:30 PM »
It should be everyone giving a democratic mandate to perform a duty, whether WAD or other duties for the region of Taijitu. If Wast would be up to it, the council could mandate Wast to be Wast, Minister of Wastiness and Religious Leader of Feline Worshipers.

If the People decide there needs to be another course of action then another course of action it is. You'd end the "I'm the leader, I do whatever I think it's best" and start "We're leading, we decide what's best to do"

For instance, foreign policy would be completely different, elections would be easier and much more arguable, you'd most likely discuss more politics under a council system and against what normally is Laisser Faire or dictatorial.

Things would be scrutinized by everyone instead of being simply done or managed by the Delegate and giving a damn about the Senate.

Offline McMasterdonia

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Re: Delecacy poll
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2013, 05:29:07 AM »
Can you stop with the ridiculous photos.

The Senate failed as a body. It didn't do anything. We had to enact the emergency government plan and St Oz became the Delegate. We could hold as many elections as you want, or cling to whatever provision of the constitution you wanted.

The Senate could have voted to remove St Oz as Delegate if he was that bad. You did not do so.

St Oz did what he had to do and was the steward of the region. The constitutional government was not functioning. In the future, when the region is active and recruitment is working that will not be an issue. But we should not dissolve into this ridiculous council as an absolute authority on matters both executive and legislative. No thank you. I do not want Taijitu to turn into a legislative police state, where whoever can hold a majority in the Senate can do whatever they like and the Delegate must bend over and take it.

The Senate is an open body. It could have and should have scrutinized the Delegate for his actions, but it didn't. The Senate in the past also took some direction over government departments that were not being managed. Neither of you did that.

St Oz made a statement a few months back where he placed External Affairs in the hands of the Senate. If the actions committed by Oz in that field were so bad, why did the Senate not act?

« Last Edit: November 10, 2013, 05:33:27 AM by McMasterdonia »
Ur a towel


Offline Delfos

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Re: Delecacy poll
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2013, 06:43:31 AM »
Can you stop with the ridiculous photos.

The Senate failed as a body. It didn't do anything. We had to enact the emergency government plan and St Oz became the Delegate. We could hold as many elections as you want, or cling to whatever provision of the constitution you wanted.
The Senate may confirm all treaties negotiated by the Delegate by a two-thirds majority vote. ALSO The Delegate may negotiate treaties with foreign powers to be approved or rejected by the Senate. - yet he took the liberty of breaking treaties by himself. It was not the Senate who failed  :whip: We even publicly denounced his power trip and posted our dissatisfaction. Oz failed.

The Senate could have voted to remove St Oz as Delegate if he was that bad. You did not do so.
Well we couldn't, you'd need a proper referendum and the CJ was not available.
    If the Senate impeaches the Delegate, a referendum on removing the Delegate will be held.
    If the referendum succeeds, the Delegate will be removed from office.

Anyway, creating a vacancy doesn't solve problems and just because he wasn't removed from his elected executive mandate doesn't give him the right to do anything he wants. This isn't a test the limit game. We did search for a solution and it's obvious, we'd either change the regime or have new elections, I guess you don't pay much attention because your interests lie elsewhere. :shrug:

St Oz did what he had to do and was the steward of the region. The constitutional government was not functioning. In the future, when the region is active and recruitment is working that will not be an issue. But we should not dissolve into this ridiculous council as an absolute authority on matters both executive and legislative. No thank you. I do not want Taijitu to turn into a legislative police state, where whoever can hold a majority in the Senate can do whatever they like and the Delegate must bend over and take it.
Steward? I think you have the wrong Constitution, the WAD already has to bend over Senate because that's what democracy is. TBH the Council idea doesn't change much to what is now, it just removes a middle man that thinks he's the top of the world when he's not. The Senate may enact whatever they want, already, and the only thing the Delegate can do is veto which may, already, be overpassed by Senate, therefore, the Senate already has all those powers. So what you're against is the democratic powers of the Senate, you want the Delegate or "King Regent" or "Steward" as you may have called it, more powers and no democratic interference. :trout:

The Senate is an open body. It could have and should have scrutinized the Delegate for his actions, but it didn't. The Senate in the past also took some direction over government departments that were not being managed. Neither of you did that.

St Oz made a statement a few months back where he placed External Affairs in the hands of the Senate. If the actions committed by Oz in that field were so bad, why did the Senate not act?
We did act, we did scrutinize, we were against it, the Delegate cannot force executive powers over the Senate and the Senate has no procedure for External Affairs, all we may or may not do is debate and approve or disapprove External Affairs treaties/negotiations by a minister/WAD. :-*

Also, censorship isn't in the constitution yet. Ridiculous pictures show ridiculous times.

Offline McMasterdonia

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Re: Delecacy poll
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2013, 09:39:58 AM »
They really don't. They are just annoying

Where is Eluvatar?
Ur a towel


Offline St Oz

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Re: Delecacy poll
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2013, 03:04:09 PM »