Well, I did it.

[Myroria]

I did it. I read the Communist Manifesto.

It changed my life.

Now I'm even MORE anti-communist.

[Zimmerwald]

Good on you to read a pamphlet.  Why not try an actual book?   

[Myroria]

I looked for Das Kapital, but the library didn't have it.

[Zimmerwald]

 

Well you could check http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/cw/index.htm

Supposedly it's got the three volumes of Kapital tucked away.

[Khem]

come on Garth without reading Das Kapital you know nothing. yet again communism would be a nice thing but people are just too corrupt and lazy in such large numbers.

[Myroria]

The abolition of the family is not something to strive for. Of all the idiotic things pushed in that pamphlet, that had to be the dumbest.

[Zimmerwald]

Thank you for not understanding the point.  The point that M/E were making was that the family had already been abolished by the removal of production from the home.  This meant that working-class men and (and often women) worked in the factories rather than in the home, and consequently spent less time with their children.  This weakened the institution of the family.

The basic point in that section of the pamphlet was that many of the things cappies want to pin on commies are already being accomplished under capitalism.

[Myroria]

Yes, I realize he was trying to say that the family was being corrupted blah blah blah. But he stated himself that the communist agenda includes the abolition of the family as one of its points:

Abolition of the family! Even the most radical flare up at this infamous proposal of the Communists.

Since he goes on to state that the capitalist system already corrupts the familial structure, never saying anything to deny that he proposes this, I can only figure he, or at least most communists, support this. At least from what I could gather - I've never been good at deciphering old language, even from the early 1900s - he's just saying "the capitalists also plan to abolish the family", not "we do not seek the abolition of the family". If you don't have a family, you have one part of Brave New World.

[Zimmerwald]

Also, keep in mind that in this context "family" effectively means the autonomous nuclear family.  Abolition of the family does not mean abolition of the ties of kinship, but of one particular manifestation of these ties of kinship.

[Myroria]

Well, I disagree with that. I think that a mother and father, mother and mother, or father and father are essential to human nature.

[Zimmerwald]

Prove that there is a set and defined "human nature", and that argument might have substance.  As it is, invoking "human nature" is a tremendous cop-out.

[Bara]

well, a mom and a dad are needed. they need to screw each other to make kids.

[Solnath]

Ever heard of cloning, Bara?

[Bara]

holy crap, i forgot about that!

[Myroria]

Thanks for your very valuable comment, Bara.

There is no defined human nature, but parents have been proved time and time again to be a positive benefit to your kids, unless you live in Africa and they send you out to kill warlords, which wouldn't be too positive. But most of the time they are.