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Author Topic: Motion to hold an Election for Citizen-Liason  (Read 2716 times)

Offline Eluvatar

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Motion to hold an Election for Citizen-Liason
« on: July 10, 2015, 04:37:04 PM »
I propose that the Ecclesia open an election for Citizen-Liaison, pursuant to Citizen Initiator Act, 2.1

I think it would be beneficial for the Ecclesia to decide on our cultural leadership, especially in the crafting of our (now nonexistent) guides and FAQs, and the planning of our Garden Party and/or Revolution Day ceremonies. These are important issues, so I think the Ecclesia should have the opportunity to reaffirm their confidence in their choice of leadership for these activities.
                                 
(click to show/hide)

Offline bigbaldben

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Re: Motion to hold an Election for Citizen-Liason
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2015, 07:52:11 PM »
I am beyond against this.

AwesomeSaucer has done nothing to deserve removal.  He is, from my perspective, guilty of two things:
1) letting his enthusiasm get the best of him; overpromising and underdelivering - so far.
2) picking and choosing what advice to accept, and maybe not being as diplomatic about it as he could have been

To the first, we all dive into new and exciting things and then when the enthusiasm wears off, we re-adjust our goals to match the limits of the hard work that we're actually able to perform.  It's human nature to overpromise when we're excited about something.  Removing an elected official from office for that is absurd.

To the second, fucking what?!  We're really going to remove someone from office for not maintaining the status quo?  In Taijitu?  The region of continual revolution?

Communities stay fresh by people being willing to say "FUCK the old way.  Let's try something different."  With that comes the danger that they might do something ridiculously bad.   But unless it is something egregious - something that causes irreversible damage to the region - it is inconceivable to punish someone HERE, OF ALL PLACES, for trying something different.

Web sites can be backed up and restored if the result is atrocious.  Citizen Guides can be saved and re-posted by a later Citizen Delegate if they do not like the new one.  And inexperienced Citizen Delegates can fall flat on their face if they reject advice or refuse to adjust their course.  Then his term will be remembered in Taijitu as that one time that guy wouldn't take advice and sucked.  So what?  That would be on HIM. 

But removing him from office?  For what?  Trying too hard?  Having a different way of doing things?  Being stubborn?  Being inexperienced?  Being rude?  Being a complete asshole??  Whether those things are true, they don't justify removal from office. If we do that - that's on us.  That's on Taijitu, and it sends an unmistakable message - "Conform, or else."

I get why people are unhappy with AS, and I'm not defending anything he has or hasn't done or said.  That's a completely different discussion. But unless he has done something MUCH more worthy of censure that hasn't been communicated here, I am stunned that this is even being considered as an option.

Offline Funkadelia

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Re: Motion to hold an Election for Citizen-Liason
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2015, 08:10:25 PM »
It's not so much that he is not maintaining the status quo, it's that he's doing everything only his way, while simultaneously saying that we're going to do things together, team effort etc., but we haven't really had much input into anything. We are not demanding conformity, but just input.
Today's date is: Ecclésidi, 30 Ignal AR 4 - Day 1338 of the Glorious Revolution.

Many trials make manifest
The stranger's fate, the curses' bane.
Many touchstones try the stranger
Many fall, but one remains.

Offline bigbaldben

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Re: Motion to hold an Election for Citizen-Liason
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2015, 08:33:01 PM »
It's not so much that he is not maintaining the status quo, it's that he's doing everything only his way, while simultaneously saying that we're going to do things together, team effort etc., but we haven't really had much input into anything. We are not demanding conformity, but just input.

I see your point, and that would totally piss me off.  But again, I'm not arguing for or against the way he's done stuff.   Being elected to a position means something - at least in my mind - and he should have the opportunity to finish the term he was elected to.  Maybe he'll come to Jesus and turn things around now that he's been called out, or maybe he'll do nothing different.  But I just can't see being a jackass as a viable reason to remove someone from elected office. 

Offline Delfos

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Re: Motion to hold an Election for Citizen-Liason
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2015, 09:41:11 PM »
wanting something done your (some "we" that funk mentions) way shouldn't always come up to toppling those entrusted with the job. Either right or wrong, his way is very refreshing, it's different, and maybe we shouldn't always do what you (those "we") want. He was available when I or any of you were not, give him that, he wants to do his best.

Offline Funkadelia

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Re: Motion to hold an Election for Citizen-Liason
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2015, 09:55:19 PM »
Actually, it's not just me, I'm speaking on behalf of other people who share the same concerns as me, albeit not as bombastically. No one else wanted to speak up. Just look at the aye votes.
Today's date is: Ecclésidi, 30 Ignal AR 4 - Day 1338 of the Glorious Revolution.

Many trials make manifest
The stranger's fate, the curses' bane.
Many touchstones try the stranger
Many fall, but one remains.

Offline AwesomeSaucer

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Re: Motion to hold an Election for Citizen-Liason
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2015, 02:09:09 AM »
I see your point, and that would totally piss me off.  But again, I'm not arguing for or against the way he's done stuff.   Being elected to a position means something - at least in my mind - and he should have the opportunity to finish the term he was elected to.  Maybe he'll come to Jesus and turn things around now that he's been called out, or maybe he'll do nothing different.  But I just can't see being a jackass as a viable reason to remove someone from elected office.
You bet your ASS I'm turning things around.  Ladies and gentlemen, I now hereby swear to honestly listen to your feedback and use the Ecclesia properly.  I can see where things went wrong, and I am more than willing to change.  Please, everyone, I know I can finish this term properly and efficiently.  Trust me!  :D
--
Sincerely,

Former Citizen-Liaison of Taijitu,

Evan C.


Offline Delfos

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Re: Motion to hold an Election for Citizen-Liason
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2015, 03:43:41 AM »
I see your point, and that would totally piss me off.  But again, I'm not arguing for or against the way he's done stuff.   Being elected to a position means something - at least in my mind - and he should have the opportunity to finish the term he was elected to.  Maybe he'll come to Jesus and turn things around now that he's been called out, or maybe he'll do nothing different.  But I just can't see being a jackass as a viable reason to remove someone from elected office.
You bet your ASS I'm turning things around.  Ladies and gentlemen, I now hereby swear to honestly listen to your feedback and use the Ecclesia properly.  I can see where things went wrong, and I am more than willing to change.  Please, everyone, I know I can finish this term properly and efficiently.  Trust me!  :D

Start by toning down the bells and whistles. (yes I know american expreshums)

Offline St Oz

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Re: Motion to hold an Election for Citizen-Liason
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2015, 02:23:35 PM »
I see your point, and that would totally piss me off.  But again, I'm not arguing for or against the way he's done stuff.   Being elected to a position means something - at least in my mind - and he should have the opportunity to finish the term he was elected to.  Maybe he'll come to Jesus and turn things around now that he's been called out, or maybe he'll do nothing different.  But I just can't see being a jackass as a viable reason to remove someone from elected office.
You bet your ASS I'm turning things around.  Ladies and gentlemen, I now hereby swear to honestly listen to your feedback and use the Ecclesia properly.  I can see where things went wrong, and I am more than willing to change.  Please, everyone, I know I can finish this term properly and efficiently.  Trust me!  :D

Start by toning down the bells and whistles. (yes I know american expreshums)
What're you, like 80?  :keke:

Offline Myroria

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Re: Motion to hold an Election for Citizen-Liason
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2015, 05:35:40 PM »
This motion has failed. A Citizen-Liaison election will not be opened.
"I assure you -- I will be quite content to be a mere mortal again, dedicated to my own amusements."

Offline Red Mones

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Re: Motion to hold an Election for Citizen-Liason
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2015, 05:17:33 AM »
I am beyond against this.

AwesomeSaucer has done nothing to deserve removal.  He is, from my perspective, guilty of two things:
1) letting his enthusiasm get the best of him; overpromising and underdelivering - so far.
2) picking and choosing what advice to accept, and maybe not being as diplomatic about it as he could have been

To the first, we all dive into new and exciting things and then when the enthusiasm wears off, we re-adjust our goals to match the limits of the hard work that we're actually able to perform.  It's human nature to overpromise when we're excited about something.  Removing an elected official from office for that is absurd.

To the second, fucking what?!  We're really going to remove someone from office for not maintaining the status quo?  In Taijitu?  The region of continual revolution?

Communities stay fresh by people being willing to say "FUCK the old way.  Let's try something different."  With that comes the danger that they might do something ridiculously bad.   But unless it is something egregious - something that causes irreversible damage to the region - it is inconceivable to punish someone HERE, OF ALL PLACES, for trying something different.

Web sites can be backed up and restored if the result is atrocious.  Citizen Guides can be saved and re-posted by a later Citizen Delegate if they do not like the new one.  And inexperienced Citizen Delegates can fall flat on their face if they reject advice or refuse to adjust their course.  Then his term will be remembered in Taijitu as that one time that guy wouldn't take advice and sucked.  So what?  That would be on HIM. 

But removing him from office?  For what?  Trying too hard?  Having a different way of doing things?  Being stubborn?  Being inexperienced?  Being rude?  Being a complete asshole??  Whether those things are true, they don't justify removal from office. If we do that - that's on us.  That's on Taijitu, and it sends an unmistakable message - "Conform, or else."

I get why people are unhappy with AS, and I'm not defending anything he has or hasn't done or said.  That's a completely different discussion. But unless he has done something MUCH more worthy of censure that hasn't been communicated here, I am stunned that this is even being considered as an option.
An interesting read. At first I paid no attention whatsoever to this and now I finally am. ( I voted abstain)