How should the Founders be organized?

[Eluvatar]

1. The Taijitu Founders Committee, hereafter called the Founders, is incorporated in Taijitu, subject to its jurisprudence. The Founders reserve the right to ignore arbitrary or capricious exercise of the judiciary's power by unanimous agreement.

2. The Founders will decide on rules and mechanisms for accessing Taijitu Founder by a majority vote.

3. The Founders may expel a member of the Founders by the unanimous consent of the other founders.

4. The Founders may accept a new founder selected by the citizens of Taijitu, hereafter called the citizens, by a majority vote, by a majority vote.

5. The Founders may amend these bylaws by unanimous consent with the consent of the citizens.

6. The Founders must seek to have an odd number of members.

7. The Founders must seek to answer issues of the Taijitu Founder the way the citizens decide. The citizens will have 2 days to decide.

8. Whenever these bylaws refer to the consent of the citizens of Taijitu with no time limit specified, a vote must be held for at least one week. Forum membership may be a requirement to vote.

[Gulliver]

I'm not sure about 7. In sounds like we're circumventing the government. I had hoped the Senate and Delegate could potentially decide issues like they would pass laws normally, so elections would be given an interesting political character and so we don't have the problem of the government having nothing to do like we often did before. Of course, being able to adopt positions to through the petitions and referendum system should also be an option. I had considered that issues should perhaps default to the Senate for consideration, and if someone makes a petition to adopt a position while its under discussion the Senate would stop their discussion and let that run its course and only resume if it failed. If an issue ended up being decided by the Senate, the position to be adopted would require a majority vote like any other law, and then the delegate could sign or veto it. If you wanted to be ambitious, you could leave a period after it passed before implementation to allow people to complain about constitutionality to the Court.

[Eluvatar]

But our constitution doesn't cover any IC things.

[Eluvatar]

Also, I'd like to suggest a clause 9:

9. The Founders will promise to follow these bylaws.

[Gulliver]

It's true, nothing in the constitution explicitly provides for running the founder nation, but nothing explicitly bans it. Also, if the issues being phrased IC is a problem, wouldn't having citizens, whose membership is defined under said constitution, decide be just as problematic?

[Limitless Events]

Looks good to me aside from number 7. I agree with the idea of the citizens answering the issue, which was done in the past by TP, but I don't think it is something that needs to be written down into law. Having it as an unofficial agreement among the founders should be enough. This nation really belongs to no one person now and as such no one person granted access should care how the nation's issues are answered.

[Eluvatar]

Looks good to me aside from number 7. I agree with the idea of the citizens answering the issue, which was done in the past by TP, but I don't think it is something that needs to be written down into law. Having it as an unofficial agreement among the founders should be enough. This nation really belongs to no one person now and as such no one person granted access should care how the nation's issues are answered.

Hm. Well, the thing is the Founder is kind of prominent on the page. But I'd be happy to leave that informal as it also simplifies (. If somebody else agrees with Limi I'll strike it

[Gulliver]

I would also prefer whatever arrangement is decided upon be informal if possible, and only set in law if push comes to shove.

[Eluvatar]

1. The Taijitu Founders Committee, hereafter called the Founders, is incorporated in Taijitu, subject to its jurisprudence. The Founders reserve the right to ignore arbitrary or capricious exercise of the judiciary's power by unanimous agreement.

2. The Founders will decide on rules and mechanisms for accessing Taijitu Founder by a majority vote.

3. The Founders may expel a member of the Founders by the unanimous consent of the other founders.

4. The Founders may accept a new founder selected by the citizens of Taijitu, hereafter called the citizens, by a majority vote, by a majority vote.

5. The Founders may amend these bylaws by unanimous consent with the consent of the citizens.

6. The Founders must seek to have an odd number of members.

7. Whenever these bylaws refer to the consent of the citizens of Taijitu a vote must be held for at least one week. Forum membership may be a requirement to vote.

8. The Founders must promise to follow these bylaws.

[PoD Gunner]

- no. 4 is I believe either an involuntary repetition or an unfortunate wording?

by a majority vote, by a majority vote.

- also accepting another founder sounds pretty odd, doesn't it? I would rather think that replacing a missing or inactive founder can be important and would make sense considering the importance of the role assigned.

- could you please explain no 5 and 7? They confuse me. Thanks

- what is the point of this if all the founders decide to arbitrary do things silently inside the founder committee? I believe you have no chance of legislating against such a situation to any notable effect.

If you'd ask me I'd change it to:

1. The Taijitu Founders Committee, hereafter called TFC consists of 5 (five) members, called The Founders and is put in charge of the founding nation of the region - [nation]Taijitu Founder[/nation]. TFC is a subject to the jurisprudence of the region. The Founders reserve the right to ignore arbitrary or capricious exercise of the judiciary's power by unanimous agreement and to rule having as sole purpose the well-being and safe-keeping of the region.

2. The Founders will decide on rules and mechanisms for accessing the [nation]Taijitu Founder[/nation] by a majority vote. The set of rules and mechanism thus established is subject to change under the same conditions and is to be constructed in such a way as to respond to the relevant needs of the region in the context of regional and international game-play. The internal organization of the TFC is also subject to the will of The Founders.

3. The Founders may expel a member of TFC by the unanimous consent of the other Founders.

4. In case one or more of The Founders is / are expelled, the TFC will accept one or more new founder(s) in correspondence with the number of those Founderswho have been expelled. The new Founder(s) will be selected by the citizens of Taijitu, hereafter called the citizens, by a majority vote. The Founders have the right to reject the candidate(s) selected by the citizens, if good reason therefore can be publicly shown. In such a case, a new election will be held in order to select an acceptable candidate. The Founders are obliged to accept the results of the second election, irrelevant of its outcome. It is up to The Founders to create a set of conditions to be fulfilled by any citizen of Taijitu in order to be eligible as Founder. Holding the citizenship of Taijitu must be the first condition to be eligible as Founder

5. The Founders must seek to have an odd number of members.

6. Once each year, the activity of the TFT shall be subject to the review of The Senate. The review shall last no longer than 1 week. During the review all and any members of the TFT must be available for questioning and discussions. The conclusions of the review are not binding but are to be taken into consideration by the TFT. Also, a sub-forum will be open for the TFT where any questions or inquiries specific to the role of the TFT are to be answered by the members of the TFT or an assigned Speaker.

[Eluvatar]

I'm going to have to think about this.

[Gulliver]

That's awfully wordy PoD, and a lot of it seems redundant and not strictly necessary. The last clause also seems to be impinging on the Senate's sole right to establish it's own procedures.

On a slightly different topic and backtracking to the issue of founder nation issues, instead of having them default to a certain body or procedure and trapping ourselves in a pattern which we may not always want, we could just publicly announce outstanding issues and allow what public bodies may to take the initiative and adopt positions as public acts if they desire. Issues which no action is taken on for some period of time would be dismissed.

[Eluvatar]

1. The Taijitu Founders Committee, hereafter called the Founders, is incorporated in Taijitu and subject to its jurisprudence. The Founders reserve the right to ignore arbitrary or capricious exercise of the judiciary's power by unanimous agreement.

2. The Founders will decide on rules and mechanisms for accessing Taijitu Founder by a majority vote.

3. The Founders may expel a member of the Founders, hereafter called a Founder, by the unanimous consent of the other founders.

4. The Founders may accept a new founder selected by the citizens of Taijitu, hereafter called the citizens. Such a selection must be approved of by a majority vote of citizens and by a majority vote of the Founders.

5. The Founders may amend these bylaws by unanimous consent of the Founders with the consent of the citizens.

6. The Founders must seek to have an odd number of members.

7. Whenever these bylaws refer to the consent of the citizens of Taijitu a vote must be held for at least one week. Forum membership may be a requirement to vote.

8. Each Founder must promise to follow these bylaws.

9. Each Founder must make themselves available to each Senate during its term.

[PoD Gunner]

@ Gulliver: oh well I know, the wording is but the form, if the content is correct I am sure that a better wording can be found by a talented linguist or the other. I'd like to hear what part of it is redundant and not necessary, you just stated such and did not mention anything I can work with, that's rather superficial feed-back. What the last clause is concerned, we are speaking about a possible auditing procedure for a body for which the Senate has no checks in place, so the right of the Senate to set up his own procedures is of no relevance here, I think you raise no valid point.

Also, answering to the issues of the Founder Nation is from my pov of no real importance. If you'd rather dedicate 80% of your post to how we should answer the issues of the founder and what type of regime will it grow to be and ignore the real importance of the Founder Nation, I'll try to look at the decisive aspects of this issue, from my side of the woods, at least. You won't hear me complaining about why the founder nation has allowed abortions or invested into the trout farming industry.

@ Elu: you seem to have either not seen or ignored me asking you to clarify some points from the original form that I do not understand. Please be so kind and enlighten me. Also, the need to 'accept a founder'  if all founders stay active and no founder is expelled, still eludes me.

[Eluvatar]

I did clarify those parts, but I guess I can clarify them more.

1. The Taijitu Founders Committee, hereafter called the Founders, is incorporated in Taijitu and subject to its jurisprudence. The Founders reserve the right to ignore arbitrary or capricious exercise of the judiciary's power by unanimous agreement.

2. The Founders will decide on rules and mechanisms for accessing Taijitu Founder by a majority vote.

3. The Founders may expel a member of the Founders, hereafter called a Founder, by the unanimous consent of the other founders.

4. The citizens of Taijitu, hereafter called the citizens, may propose a new Founder by a majority vote. The Founders may admit a proposed new founder proposed by majority vote.

5. The Founders may amend these bylaws by unanimous consent of the Founders with the consent of the citizens.

6. The Founders must seek to have an odd number of members.

7. Whenever these bylaws refer to the consent of the citizens of Taijitu a vote must be held for at least one week. Forum membership may be a requirement to vote.

8. Each Founder must promise to follow these bylaws.

9. Each Founder must make themselves available to each Senate during its term.