Taijitu
Forum Meta => Role Play => Archived Role Play Boards => Archive => Treaty Conferences/Organisations => Topic started by: Delfos on December 11, 2007, 10:27:40 PM
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Article 1 - obligation to respect human rights
Any signatory party is bound to secure the rights under the other Articles of this Human Rights Charter.
Article 2 - right to Life
This right means that nobody can take anyone else's life away without justification. This justification can only be applied by national constitutional laws.
Article 3 - right to Dignity
From the moment you are born to the moment you die, you have the right to live in dignity. Every human must respect someone else's dignity, because if we are disgraced by someone else, that someone is taking our right to be a respectful human being.
Article 4 - right for Food and Water.
As basic properties of survival. A government or collective cannot hide or remove such resources from their population, this prohibits the illicit property of natural goods.
Article 5 - right for a Fair Trial
Every human has the right for a fair trial, including the right to a public hearing before an independent and impartial tribunal within reasonable time, the presumption of innocence, and other minimum rights for those charged in a criminal case.
Article 6 - prohibition of torture
This prohibits torture, and "inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment". There are no exceptions or limitations on this right.
This provision usually applies, apart from torture, to cases of severe police violence and poor conditions in detention.
Article 7 - prohibition of slavery
This prohibits slavery and forced labour, but excepted from this prohibitions are conscription, national service, prison labour, service exacted in cases of emergency or calamity, and "normal civic obligations".
Article 8 - no punishment without law
Prohibits the retrospective criminalisation of acts and omissions. No person may be punished for an act that was not a criminal offence at the time of its commission. The article states that a criminal offence is one under either national or international law, which would permit a party to prosecute someone for a crime which was not illegal under their domestic law at the time, so long as it was prohibited by (possibly customary) international law. This also prohibits a heavier penalty being imposed than was applicable at the time when the criminal act was committed.
Article 9 - right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion
This provides a right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion. This includes the freedom to change a religion or belief, and to manifest a religion or belief in worship, teaching, practice and observance, subject to certain restrictions that are in accordance with law and necessary in a civilized society.
Article 10 - prohibition of discrimination
This prohibition is broad in some ways, and narrow in others. On the one hand, the article protects against discrimination based on any of a wide range of grounds. The article provides a list of such grounds, including sex, race, colour, language, religion and several other criteria, and most significantly providing that this list is non-exhaustive.
Article 11 - prohibition of abuse of rights
No one may use the rights guaranteed by the Human Rights Charter to seek the abolition or limitation of rights guaranteed in the Charter. This addresses instances where states seek to restrict a human right in the name of another human right, or where individuals rely on a human right to undermine other human rights.
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Protocol 1 - A2 - Moratorium for Death Penalty
To both justify the justification of ending a human life, and to prevent the abuse of justification, a moratorium must be presented to IPO Diplomacy Bureau.
Signatories:
-New Delfos
-Terrangar
-Canada
-Validus
-Capconia
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The Federation of Terrangar will sign this treaty.
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Myroria will not sign this. There is no "debate" over the death penalty, it should always be an option for the most serious crimes; to spare a serial killer's life is to value his over those of his victims.
In addition, the banning of discrimination by a people - not a government - is inherently restrictive to the racist's own human rights, especially that of freedom of speech. These seem to be more of a liberal's view of human rights than that aligned with Myroria.
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unfortunately Serid cannot sign this treaty as it would cause problems with emergency planning and also some aspects of our justice system. Therefore we salute the effort to bring a greater level of humanity to this world but must decline the chance to sign.
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I will not sign this treaty and in doing so tie the Empire of Mor'os to be bound by this document. It is shoddy and ill written and could easily be circumvented if we cared about its contents. Furthermore several of the proposed articles would severely handicap the proper application of the law and justice within the Empire. The streets of my nation are safe and I refuse to sacrifice such a hard earned blessing for the sake of a collection of ill defined principles. What rights the people of Mor'os need I myself have already addressed in Chapter 8 of the Seventy-Eight Decrees.
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We agree on Myroria's position on the death penalty. Collosea will not sign the treaty.
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ooc As Myroria, Mor'os and Selid are not members of IPO I will address them as representatives.
Article 2 - right to Life
This right means that nobody can take anyone Else's life away without justification. This justification can only be applied by national constitutional laws
Protocol 1 - A2 - Moratorium for Death Penalty
To both justify the justification of ending a human life, and to prevent the abuse of justification, a moratorium must be presented to IPO Diplomacy Bureau.
As you can see the death penalty is not banned outright by the treaty.
It is simply fortified as a measure entirely in the hands of the respective government.
Or may I understand it that in your country's, I as a person could just kill someone whom I believe did murder someone else?
I do not think so.
Also this treaty did not appear out of nowhere.
There was time enough to bring in your own agenda and ideas.
I must say that it is easy to state mistakes and wrong wordings, but is it that difficult to offer better ideas?
There is a difference between critique and constructive critique. And also I am used to IPO treaty's receiving little of the later I am astonished that our documents are obviously not worthy of even being read.
For the sake of the treaty I would like to propose the following. That changes can be made to the treaty if there is a majority vote on the changes present.
What do the other delegates of IPO think about this?
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It prevents some of the punishments of the serid penal code such as flogging and branding. It also prevents summary execution during periods of emergency either because of action (i.e. the committing of a crime during a period of emergency) or necessity (i.e. during war the gassing of prisoners held to release those holding them for military duty).
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Myroria will not sign this. There is no "debate" over the death penalty, it should always be an option for the most serious crimes; to spare a serial killer's life is to value his over those of his victims.
In addition, the banning of discrimination by a people - not a government - is inherently restrictive to the racist's own human rights, especially that of freedom of speech. These seem to be more of a liberal's view of human rights than that aligned with Myroria.
this treaty has in mind those countries that support death penalty, as long it's in the law, you can kill whoever you want, although you need a moratorium about it.
well...racism isn't going to be ever a human right, it doesn't make sense. So if you're against anti-discriminatory articles, it was worth a try to get you signing the human rights charter.
again about death penalty, at least read the damn thing. It's not banned, actually some of the most restrictive articles have the 'justification' word, it means, as long in your national law you can do those things, they aren't against human rights.
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The Imperial Federation of Nations will sign the treaty.
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The Imperial Federation of Nations will sign the treaty.
I thought you were Imperial Federation of Canada, may I address to you as Canada?
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Racism is a sub-division of freedom of speech. Are you saying freedom of speech should not be a human right? What's next, someone who hurts someone's feelings is a criminal against humanity? Please.
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Validus will sign this treaty.
Racism is negative against personnel. Even if it is against someone less right to free speach, that right will infringe upon another's right to Dignity.
~Thanato
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Nobody has a right to dignity. Dying with dignity, maybe, but if everyone who insulted someone was infringing on someone's human rights, the prisons would be overflowing.
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I am still Canada and my people are still Canadians. The Imperial Federation is a federated Commonwealth of Nations.
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I will cry when I see the day a Myrorian will never view another human with out racist eyes.
~Thanato
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Prison? Nobody said anything about prison, as in many constitutions, you get to pay a fee, if you don't you pay the fee in being in prison, nothing more. Yes when you insult someone you're violating his human right to dignity, it's the national law that will address the penalty, you can even say everyone that violates human rights gets direct death penalty with this treaty.
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The Enlightened Empire agrees to most content of this treaty, but there are two major problems - at first, article 10, which enforces the prohibition of discrimination. While Feniexia agrees that being member of a certain race or sex does not mean being of lower worth than others are; but also, this article would outlaw most parts of the Feniexian government, because meritocracy values some human beings over others. So, we can only agree to this article partly.
Also, we have our concerns about Protocol 1 - A2. The death sentence is very rarely used in Feniexian jurisdiction, for proven crimes of serial murder, strong violation against the dignity of human beings and other comparable actions. While Feniexia thinks the IPO would agree that the Death Sentence is acceptable punishment for those individuals, we refuse to bow to foreign organizations.
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The Enlightened Empire agrees to most content of this treaty, but there are two major problems - at first, article 10, which enforces the prohibition of discrimination. While Feniexia agrees that being member of a certain race or sex does not mean being of lower worth than others are; but also, this article would outlaw most parts of the Feniexian government, because meritocracy values some human beings over others. So, we can only agree to this article partly.
Also, we have our concerns about Protocol 1 - A2. The death sentence is very rarely used in Feniexian jurisdiction, for proven crimes of serial murder, strong violation against the dignity of human beings and other comparable actions. While Feniexia thinks the IPO would agree that the Death Sentence is acceptable punishment for those individuals, we refuse to bow to foreign organizations.
1st, you're an IPO member, why didn't you brought this issues to discussion?
2nd, The Article about Dignity was changed because of guys like you, I removed the part that someone's dignity was equal to someone else's or whatever was written before. But discrimination? You're saying the government has the right to discriminate? This is about human values, a human as a citizen or society individual, if your parties discriminate their own groups that's fine, as long your law gives room for un-discriminatory parties, sure, why not? Otherwise I'm not following your idea.
3rd, I'm not sure what you mean with Protocol 1 (A2), Protocol 1 does let whoever wants to have death penalty, as long you explain why you do allow it. IPO doesn't even have jurisdiction to do anything even if your moratorium about your death penalty is against Human Rights, to be fair about it. Although if there's a general motion to accuse your nation of violation human rights, who knows...you could be the 1st sentenced entity by the IPO International Court.
I am against death penalty, if that's what you mean, and I think we would be better without it, but there's too many nations in Taijitu that allow Death Penalty, in some way we want to appeal nations like Myroria to join IPO, hence why we're so kind including the 'justification' word, giving some flexibility on the laws.
There was to be included, in a primitive version of this charter, a protocol of derogation, but there would be very few articles worth a derogation protocol, so we just thought about a way to give it enough flexibility to let people in and outside of IPO sign it.
We want as much as we can, this charter will be one of the main frames to bring Gelibolu into independence. It would be great if even Myroria (one of the 1st saying he would recognise Gelibolu) would sign it, a solid front against Xyrael about human rights would be easier to RP the end of such fascist empire. Unless you're fascist yourself, why don't you just sign it?
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Myrorians are not racist, they are xenophobic. We hate Delfians because they're foreign, not because they're Delfian.
I SPECIFICALLY SAID in my earlier post:
It breaks personal rights to forbid a racist, not a government, from endorsing discrimination, paraphrased. If you read, you'd realize the government does not endorse discrimination, segregate based on race, etc.
And no, I will never join the IPO. It infringes on Myroria's own rights. And because I don't sign this, I'm fascist?
For one, I don't want to sign this because several of the rights are completely insane and I will never agree with them. Just because I take Xyrael's side on one little thing doesn't mean I'm fascist.
Secondly, you see how I'm "the Libertarian Monarchy of Myroria"? There's a reason for that. My people can do just as many things as you can, and don't have to worry about the government stealing their money. Not to mention you forcing the Valhene into submission. Because that's SO civilized.
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since you got it all wrong, your post seems to deserve no comments.
If you think commie is insulting, you should think about fascist then.
Ah, just one quote:
So if you're against anti-discriminatory articles, it was worth a try to get you signing the human rights charter.
If you'd read, you'd realize allot about this world.
The only thing I will comment is the Valhene thing...submission? They have lost a war, yes they have to submit, anyone that looses a war has to. And that's because they are supposed to have no one defending them, no one taking responsibility for their security, we provide them that until a legit government and a legit armed force for security is established. None of the above have yet (in my time-rate) been accomplished.
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Before all other, I wish to apologize about our concerns about Protocol 1; it was a m
Maybe what I said was a bit unclear. At first, Feniexia is no democracy, but a meritocracy - thus, there are no "parties" in it; at second, we do not discriminate human beings, but we value some beings over other beings. The problem is; we do not treat lower ranked individuals bad, although they are restricted on several issues, but we treat higher ranked individuals better, give them more rights and substitutions for certain things. So, foreigners might see this as discrimination. This is our problem. If we would have the guarantee that we would keep our laws endorsing people with higher abilities and restricting those with lower ones, we would gladly sign this treaty.
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In response to the concerns of the Enlightened Empire of Feniexia I must say that "discrimination" is taken too tight here.
Even in my country there are people that are better off then others, earning more money and can thus afford more and live better.
It must be understood that in every society there are people who do not want to advance to higher levels because they are satisfied with what they have or are unable to attain a higher social standing.
I feel from what I have heard that maybe an explanation to what is discrimination and what is not should be added.
I would like to ask the Feniexian representative if it is possible in his society for a person of lower standing-trough hard work and learning and improving ones self- to attain a higher level?
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but we value some beings over other beings.
This article was changed for your requests. You can value more some than others, although our definition of civilized society doesn't allow some be over others. This article prevents the abuse of discrimination, if you like your mother more than your father, what should we care about? But if you discriminate your father to the point of not recognizing his citizenship or fatherhood is something more concerning.
As explained before, as long you are letting people live their lives just because they are different from your standings then you won't be bothered with discrimination...maybe in future protocols we can restrict it more about social standings.
In any way, our society won't ever allow this, it's written down, meritocracy is a bad way to go in our opinion, and you're always discriminating people that doesn't follow your standings. Like a private group inside a public group, never looks too good in delfian standings.
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It's still unacceptable. If you want to follow the wrong notion that your father is not your father, there is nothing that can be done about it. There is nothing that should be done about it. If this article prohibited discriminatory violence, it may be better, but we still wouldn't sign it.
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I would like to ask the Feniexian representative if it is possible in his society for a person of lower standing-trough hard work and learning and improving ones self- to attain a higher level?
"Yes, it indeed is. Gaining new abilities is one of the most basic aspects of our society. The Feniexian education system is open to all to a degree; everyone seriously trying to reach for the stars will be supported by the government. All our technological advancement, all our power - it is not the work of a few percent of mentally gifted individuals in the Enlightened Empire. It is the work of many academics, the work of autodidacts, and other educated but not necessarily over-intelligent individuals."
Celen shortly looked over to the Delfian representant and responded. "Well, listening to your opinion, I'd like to ask you one question about a hypothetical situation. You have the choice of either saving the life of the Delfian president or the life of an common, idiotic and uneducated street criminal; would you choose your president or the criminal?"
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"Both, if I could save only 1 it would be the president of course, it's a matter of interests, not discrimination. But asked to save either the President of the Supreme Council or a whoever else, I would save both.
I hope I enlightened your view of our perspective, but this is me, and this is my civic training in New Delfos, and I can understand your issue with this matter, but as I told about the hypothetical example, it's a matter of interests, it's a self-discerning discrimination for my own interests, I'm not murdering that other person, am I?
There's several high standard firms in New Delfos that have allot of interests, lets say, in clothing. Their employees have a list of cloths that they cannot dress, basically they can only dress executive style clothing. That is discriminatory, but for their own interests, they are not prejudicing any other that doesn't follow their standards.
If you apply this to your meritocratic government, I rather if you had room for opposition, since your government doesn't sound too fair, but still, if there were parties, parties could have their own standards.
It's hard to explain, this is one of those Articles, even if they're not 'that' vague, they're still quite vague.
I say, you shouldn't be having any problems with anti-discriminatory laws. Myroria would..." *casting a quick look to the Myrorian representative in the ratification ceremony. Like if they look would say it all, racist bastards.*
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"Please, be more professional, n'wah. Or do they not teach how to be professional to non-communists in New Delfos?"
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*delfian representative drives his look away, ignoring whatever the myrorian rep. said, he was more interested in national representatives signing this treaty than a stupid argue with myrorian and their racist manners.*
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"Hahahaha, typical of a Delfian to settle their conflicts with a cold shoulder before cold steel. I'll be leaving gentlemen, thank you for your time."
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whispers to the rest of the committee:
"This guy must be crasy, what's he on about?"
"I heard all myrorians were like that..."
"No, really? By the look of those in the streets they all seem polite and really enjoy cleaning the streets."
"Well they might, where else would they work?"
"Who knows...how many more do you think will sign this treaty? We've been waiting for some time."
"I don't know, there is a really short amount of signatures here..."
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I don't see why any Myrorian in his right mind would move to Delfos to...clean streets, especially when there's always odd jobs the Great Houses need doing, but I suppose it is hard for mental patients to join Great Houses...
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Maybe because they would get easy jobs with benefits that they cannot find in Myroria? Myroria is the paradise for enterprises, not for workers. Any poor Myrorian would rather walk towards ND than stay in a place that they do not receive any social care. As any rich Delfian would like to have business in Myroria, but he cant because of your state-sponsored xenophobia.
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If you're taking the unemployed bums off our hands, go ahead.
Oh, and any Delfian can start a business here. Capitalism>xenophobia.
He just won't get any business.
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now that we've brought our cocks out, lets just settle it. I do wish to argue but if you want to continue so, make an OOC topic please.
"Come on! Fresh treaty here for you to sign! A treaty for the lady and gentleman, come on!"
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The Free Land of Capconia is more than honored to sign this treaty, as Human Rights are one of the most important things in our land.
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May your honorable land prosper trough eternity.