Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

News: Let us become steel shields that defend the ideals of the Glorious Revolution and Taijituan democracy!

Author Topic: The Removal of Dren Egral A's Citizenship  (Read 3395 times)

Offline Eluvatar

  • Tech Monkey
  • Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 3111
  • O_O
    • Taijitu.org
The Removal of Dren Egral A's Citizenship
« on: April 14, 2007, 09:56:00 PM »
BY UNANIMOUS ASSENT
Supreme Court of Taijitu Decision 1
"The Removal of Dren Egral A's Citizenship"

On the ninth of April, at 04:53 Pacific Standard Time, the nation of "Dren Egral A" (inverse of "A large nerd") entered Taijitu. Later that day, between 08:02 and 10:39 Pacific Standard Time, they departed for a region of their own making. Within 31 hours they had attained over 40 endorsements in Taijitu by endorsing every single UN member in the region. The Executive Government was appropriately shaken by these developments and discussions began of how to respond. It was being discussed by the Ministers whether or not to give Citizenship to Dren Egral A, who had at that point applied. While this discussion was ongoing, the Minister of Internal Affairs granted Citizenship. The other Ministers and the Delegate being displeased, he then decided to revoke it. At that time the Speaker and Minister of Community became irate and both prodded the Court into action and began proceedings for the Minister of Internal Affairs's Impeachment.

Article VI, Section 2 clause 2 of the Constitution of Taijitu states that "Citizenship may not be revoked without the due process of law." Now it does provide for temporary restrictions on Citizens during investigations, but the outright revocation of citizenship is unconstitutional. As Remedy, the Court requires that Citizenship be restored to DrenEgralA post haste, and instructs that the Minister of Internal Affairs avoid repeating this mistake. We do not however believe this honest mistake justifies impeachment, especially when it is so easily reversible. We advise the Senate to allow the Delegate to continue to deal with the Ministry of Internal Affairs as she sees fit.

Finally, the Court affirms that it would have been Constitutional for the Minister of Internal Affairs to refuse Citizenship to DrenEgralA, but once said citizenship was issued DrenEgralA gained constitutional rights to keep their Citizenship. The Ministry of Internal Affairs does not need to be a rubber stamp of Citizenship and the aggressive collection of endorsements and other security factors would be legitimate reasons to give additional scrutiny, and possibly refusal to an application.
                                 
(click to show/hide)

Offline DrenEgralA

  • *
  • Posts: 25
Re: The Removal of Dren Egral A's Citizenship
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2007, 09:59:42 PM »
I am extremely dismayed by this situation, of which I was never notified.  I stumbled upon this decision by accident.  The wisdom of the court is without question.

However, I will begin looking for a more friendly and welcoming region in which to place my nation, one that is less suspicious of my *right* as UN member to endorse any and ALL member nations *I* see fit to endorse.

I’m sorry for the trouble I caused and am very disappointed by the region of Taijitu.

Perhaps a less skittish and paranoid delegate would be better suited to represent the ideals that Taijitu seemingly holds itself up to.  But that is not my concern, as I mentioned, in the next few days I will begin searching for a more suitable and honest region in which to locate my nation.

I thought I had found a home, apparently I was incorrect.

Dren Egral A

Offline Eluvatar

  • Tech Monkey
  • Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 3111
  • O_O
    • Taijitu.org
Re: The Removal of Dren Egral A's Citizenship
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2007, 10:08:24 PM »
Eh? How do you consider Taijitu dishonest?
                                 
(click to show/hide)

Offline Ryazania

  • *
  • Posts: 1318
  • Resident Hardass
Re: The Removal of Dren Egral A's Citizenship
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2007, 10:11:06 PM »
Because noone ever told him to stop.
Economic Left/Right: 9.65
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.37

Proud Constitutionalist

When the government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.

Tyrants from Hitler to Mao to Stalin have sought to disarm their own citizens, for the simple reason that unarmed people are easier to control.


Offline Eluvatar

  • Tech Monkey
  • Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 3111
  • O_O
    • Taijitu.org
Re: The Removal of Dren Egral A's Citizenship
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2007, 10:11:50 PM »
Why does that make us dishonest? I don't get it.
                                 
(click to show/hide)

Offline Gulliver

  • Data Dog
  • Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 5284
  • Forsooth, do you grok my jive, me hearties?
Re: The Removal of Dren Egral A's Citizenship
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2007, 10:13:39 PM »
DrenEgralA, your purported "right" to gather endorsements does not extend to the point that you can accrue enough that you actually unlawfully take over the delegacy. Taijitu like many other regions requires that such hand overs be done through organized elections rather than an anarchistic free for all, and the rate at which you were gathering endorsements would have raised suspicion and concern in many places.

Offline Ryazania

  • *
  • Posts: 1318
  • Resident Hardass
Re: The Removal of Dren Egral A's Citizenship
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2007, 10:14:55 PM »
Why does that make us dishonest? I don't get it.

I think he is calling us dishonest because he was not notified of his error all the while being removed from citizenship. Just a guess, though.
Economic Left/Right: 9.65
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.37

Proud Constitutionalist

When the government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.

Tyrants from Hitler to Mao to Stalin have sought to disarm their own citizens, for the simple reason that unarmed people are easier to control.


Offline DrenEgralA

  • *
  • Posts: 25
Re: The Removal of Dren Egral A's Citizenship
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2007, 10:21:14 PM »
I was not gathering endorsements.  I was not soliciting member UN nations to endorse me.  I was simply exercising my right as a member of the UN to endorse other member nations.  I can not be held responsible by their decision to endorse me in kind. 

I do understand how my actions would cause an overly sensitive region and delegate to react as it did.  Again, I apologize for the confusion and difficulties I have caused.  I was not my intention.

Offline Eluvatar

  • Tech Monkey
  • Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 3111
  • O_O
    • Taijitu.org
Re: The Removal of Dren Egral A's Citizenship
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2007, 10:25:42 PM »
We decided that you shouldn't have lost your citizenship, and you in fact hold it.

On the other hand, it is widely accepted in NationStates that the act of endorsing large numbers of nations is considered solicitation of endorsements. By endorsing them you are effectively asking them to endorse you.

The Government had every reason to be worried by you-- but worry is different than actually taking action and removing your citizenship. The worry is acceptable, the taking of your citizenship was found unacceptable.

Secondly, I do recommend that if you believe that the current administration was overly paranoid, wait a couple weeks to see the new administration :D By May 1 we will have a new Delegate elected.
                                 
(click to show/hide)

Offline Talmann

  • *
  • Posts: 2491
Re: The Removal of Dren Egral A's Citizenship
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2007, 10:28:12 PM »
Even though the Delegate was not responsible for the revoking of citizenship...
Music is the key to the heart.

"Once art to me was something far off, unfathomable and unreachable... But I discovered that the real essence of art was not something high up and far off, it was right inside my ordinary daily self. If a musician wants to be a fine artist, he must first become a finer person. A work of art is the expression of a person's whole personality, sensibility, and ability." -Shinichi Suzuki

Offline Ryazania

  • *
  • Posts: 1318
  • Resident Hardass
Re: The Removal of Dren Egral A's Citizenship
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2007, 10:29:58 PM »
Well, Elu did say 'administration'. For all we know, the net Delegate could have a completely different cabinet.
Economic Left/Right: 9.65
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.37

Proud Constitutionalist

When the government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.

Tyrants from Hitler to Mao to Stalin have sought to disarm their own citizens, for the simple reason that unarmed people are easier to control.


Offline DrenEgralA

  • *
  • Posts: 25
Re: The Removal of Dren Egral A's Citizenship
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2007, 10:39:45 PM »
40 endorsements compared with the 200 endorsements the current delagate holds... yes I do consider the actions taken by Taijitu a bit paranoid.  I was in no danger of taking over the delagacy, even if I wanted to.  For the record - I did not want to.

You have single me out and alienated my nation.  Especially considering the fact that other nations in the region have accrued many more endorsements than I have and are actually closer to the deed you accuse me of trying to perpetrate.

Offline Talmann

  • *
  • Posts: 2491
Re: The Removal of Dren Egral A's Citizenship
« Reply #12 on: April 18, 2007, 10:43:56 PM »
the fact is, dren, that you did that so quickly. We did not single you out, we were worried about a takeover. It is possible that you were a raider that came in to take the delegacy, and the way you accumulated endorsements so quickly seemed to justify that worry.
Music is the key to the heart.

"Once art to me was something far off, unfathomable and unreachable... But I discovered that the real essence of art was not something high up and far off, it was right inside my ordinary daily self. If a musician wants to be a fine artist, he must first become a finer person. A work of art is the expression of a person's whole personality, sensibility, and ability." -Shinichi Suzuki

Offline DrenEgralA

  • *
  • Posts: 25
Re: The Removal of Dren Egral A's Citizenship
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2007, 10:49:03 PM »
Typical of a paranoid mindset.  Although I understand the need for such a mindset.
However, you had but to ask before taking action against me. 

On the other hand I am up to 76 endorsements in a week and half's time, perhaps you should ban my nation before I have a chance to leave your region.  If that makes you feel safer, I would understand.

Offline Eluvatar

  • Tech Monkey
  • Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 3111
  • O_O
    • Taijitu.org
Re: The Removal of Dren Egral A's Citizenship
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2007, 11:00:16 PM »
We have no desire to ban anyone.

And, as Minister of Regional Security, I will say that just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you :P
                                 
(click to show/hide)