Taijitu
General Category => General Board => Taijitu Polls => Topic started by: bigbaldben on October 05, 2015, 09:11:25 PM
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VOTE DAMMIT.
Bonus points for expressing OUTRAGE in either direction! O:-)
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Remove the loopholes in buying a gun (coughgun showscough), and you're set.
No need for restricting gun ownership, just more background checks, tests, etc.
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Remove the loopholes in buying a gun (coughgun showscough), and you're set.
No need for restricting gun ownership, just more background checks, tests, etc.
I saw a pretty graphic about this, all this nonsense on protecting gun rights, all the shootings were done with perfectly legal normally acquired guns. Those background checks are useless and people don't need guns.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/10/03/us/how-mass-shooters-got-their-guns.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=1
Watch John Oliver on Mental Health kinda tackles that gun violence doesn't really have to do with mental health.
[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGY6DqB1HX8[/yt]
Criminal psychology/sociology uses the term deviant for a reason, everybody, EVERYBODY deviates, having access to guns adds guns to the more serious deviations. Here read some wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deviance_%28sociology%29
Stop wasting time trying to be a conservative and protecting gun rights, fck em guns, you do not ever need them, you need EVERYTHING ELSE that makes guns useless, like proper police, proper education, proper employment, proper social welfare, proper healthcare. "Oh bears in the wilderness" use a torch you coward, or maybe make sure you're leaving bears alone by not invading their territory, still better let someone qualified to deal with bears handle it rather than using your Winchester or Revolver. Don't you have super equipped animal control and sheriffs and national guard? I remember when I was in the US we had a warning there was a mountain lion or w/e it was lurking around that bloody tiny town where I was, people didn't go out to shoot it, grow up.
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Then those background checks that whoever bought those guns went through are garbage. I think that the issue here is about the checks.
The problem is that you're never going to stop people from getting guns (yes, a cliche argument, but still a valid one). In countries where guns are highly restricted, there is a vibrant black market full of guns. I don't see why an average person owning a gun is a problem; the problem comes in when you, as BBB stated, mix guns with stupidity.
What we need are comprehensive, secure background checks, better treatment for the mentally sick, and as you said, forces like police, education, employment, etc. I'm certainly not a conservative when it comes to guns; you should see some of the wackos here in the States that think background checks themselves are a violation of the Second Amendment.
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the problem comes in when you, as BBB stated, mix guns with stupidity.
What we need are comprehensive, secure background checks, better treatment for the mentally sick
You didn't really read through what I posted above, did you?
"Mentally sick" aren't stupid and aren't deviant either, they may coincidentally be all three and even then doesn't mean they are going to murder somebody.
there is no proper background check for "stupidity", and there's plenty of people with degrees that are stupid, so how are you going to do "background checks" for "stupid"?
Here guns aren't highly restricted, you won't get guns because you've cleared yourself from restrictions, it's not normal for people to own guns, period. Yes there is a black market for guns, that doesn't mean every damn person is buying guns from the black market, most people buy guns legally, the ones that are allowed to of course bc they're either certified collectors (to buy collectors items) or pay to have hunter's license. There are still guns, but most of those people with them are usually employed on agriculture/own farm terrains and do occasional hunting, they do not need to commit crimes (besides embezzling with european money for not growing crops or owning grazing terrain). Yes there are some rare crimes that include guns, recently there was one that the robber forgot the gun at the scene yet it was a replica, just to give you an idea that people don't really use real guns lol. The most famous recent robbery of "value trucks" on the inter-state was done with pickaxes and a handgun, known here as the "pickaxe gang robberies". The most famous ATM machine robberies were done with gas-leaking explosions, no guns involved. Yes now and then, specially with drug trafficking, they bust large arsenals of blackmarket guns but gun violence is extremely low, maybe it's because they know the people they deal with don't have guns, who knows.
Point is, mental health can't be the blame for all or even most of the gun violence in USA, and you can't background check for stupidity. Neither mental health or stupidity are requisites for crime and gun violence, study deviance and you'll see it isn't, it's much more often the result of social conditions, which when improved, lower tendency for deviance.
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I'm sometimes borderline communist but,
This is where I become shamelessly Texan...
2ND AMMENDMENT IS AS AMERICAN A RIGHT AS FREE SPEECH, RELIGION, ... RIGHT TO INCOME TAXES? REDActed prohibition...no quartering soldierspopular... election of us senators...congress salaries?
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I'm sometimes borderline communist but,
This is where I become shamelessly Texan...
2ND AMMENDMENT IS AS AMERICAN A RIGHT AS FREE SPEECH, RELIGION, ... RIGHT TO INCOME TAXES? REDActed prohibition...no quartering soldierspopular... election of us senators...congress salaries?
Strangely, I respect this argument more than most of them. Jim Jefferies: There's only one valid argument for having a gun: "Fuck off, I like guns." ;D
[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OZIOE6aMBk[/yt]
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(http://i.imgur.com/QegYZ.jpg)
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I am guessing some of you haven't been a victim of a robbery, assault, mugging, had your home broken into while home, etc...
:shrug:
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(http://www.orangejuiceblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Get-Off-My-Lawn.jpg)
(http://m5.paperblog.com/i/41/413718/texas-gop-loves-guns-more-than-people-L-zUhN1Q.jpeg)
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-O79PLA2uqn0/U0zVSe0aJXI/AAAAAAAAoKo/YdTyNGY5w2Y/s1600/Map+of+Texas+Gun+Owners.png)
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/98/9c/60/989c60623dae1ef11e62f5d2e29081c3.jpg)
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I am guessing some of you haven't been a victim of a robbery, assault, mugging, had your home broken into while home, etc...
:shrug:
I guess you haven't read my post. Saying there is no crime here is quite stupid.
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If you want fewer mass shootings just take guns away from white dudes
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I used to own a gun, it was a .22LR pistol for competitive sports, I sold it a couple of years ago as I came to the conclusion that gun sports isn't my cup of tea.
I'd much rather start a technical history based gun collection with unique and odd and/or generation defining firearms, including fully functional replicas where originals are not avaliable from the 14th Century onwards.
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I used to own a gun, it was a .22LR pistol for competitive sports, I sold it a couple of years ago as I came to the conclusion that gun sports isn't my cup of tea.
I'd much rather start a technical history based gun collection with unique and odd and/or generation defining firearms, including fully functional replicas where originals are not avaliable from the 14th Century onwards.
Those old guns are cool, Chiappa makes cool knock-offs. You won't be able to protect your home or against mugging with a percussion rifle :P
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I am guessing some of you haven't been a victim of a robbery, assault, mugging, had your home broken into while home, etc...
:shrug:
I guess you haven't read my post. Saying there is no crime here is quite stupid.
Even though I actually did, my comment didn't single your post out though? I was including those who voted pro-regulation and against. In my experience, those who haven't been a victim of a serious crime, are very pro gun legislation.
“Those who give up liberty for security deserve neither,” is my general outlook that I apply when restricting anything.
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My rental home once was robbed, and I wasn't there.
I called the police they made a report
I went to all the pawn shops/thrift stores I could.
Found my stuff, called the cops, and they confiscated the items. Idiots used it as in store credit and bought the rest of something with a credit card. Cops traced the credit cards, got the rest of the stuff of me and my roommates. Everything smelled like cigarettes and we appealed to the prosecutor which stuff was 'damaged' from the heavy smell of cigarettes.
Got restitution. They're probably just getting out of jail now.
Moral of the story, they were just some 18-21 year old idiots with no money or proper education or stable family, I didn't need a gun to 'protect myself' from these idiots.
Most criminals aren't boogeymen, especially those you don't know, and the ones who are, especially those you would know, you'll be too late to stop. Most guns are protection against the psychotic criminals, and that's just something you will be unprepared for and will never happen in your lifetime.
I'm not against gun possession, or even regulating ones for hunting, just strict screening for assault weapons.
Another moral of the story, anecdotal personal experience against an argument doesn't make an argument invalid. Because here's mine.
My theory about mass-shooters is it's a cry for glory/attention/recognition that they don't get in their community/family/school. They're probably mediocre or smart-ish students who have no direction because their parents either don't give a shit or they're in some nowhere town they don't like to be or they're bullied at school or they feel like they can't prove their individualism. How ironic though, that they emulate or copycat mass shooters of the past in order to achieve this glory/attention/recognition and individualism.
The media demonizes them, shows pictures of them, creates night-time specials about the heinous crimes of the century, take pictures of them in court like they're PUBLIC ENEMY No. 1!, etc. They want to be this anti-hero, and they don't have empathy for the victims because they see them as sub-human, or just number to meet this goal.
Again, where are these mass-shooters usually at? late-teenage years - young adult males, from some suburb with hardly any communal spirit, ostracized at school, and/or hard home life.
The guns are a means, as I said, to all this madness. It's a formula and not all the ingredients are needed, but if you start taking away some of them maybe the madness will stop.
What else might change this trend?
-More walkable cities. Americans should design less cities around the car, so that people will bump into each other more often. Kids will have experience with more people than at the home and therefore develop more empathy/more open mindedness. Land and buildings is thrown around, re-zoned, re-purposed, and demolished without any other thought than money. Nobody gets together to think, hey, maybe building that second Super Walmart combination Sam's Club next to a Costco and Super-Target isn't such a good idea. But all the extra sales taxes! All the property taxes! All the land-sale! All the "jobs"! All the convenience! The city let a developer pave over acres of land for parking, the store, the local distribution warehouses, and all the while the neighborhood next to the retail monstrosities have a whole section of walk-ability is cut from them. Streets flock with cars to this new retail hole creating more hesitation from parents to let their kids out for safety reasons. Local-businesses, smaller retailers, etc. can't compete so they close down at places that were once walkable elsewhere. Eventually you have a dry city made entirely out of 4-6 lane roads with walled neighborhoods at one section, retail and parking lots at another, and office tombstones at another. But at least one can get 12 packs of soda for 3 for 12 dollars. Big value.
-More community programs, creates opportunities for older kids, inspires younger kids, gets people out of the house and more empathetic, etc etc.
-More education spending, create smaller classroom sizes, pay teachers more, offer higher salaries to teachers with graduate degrees. Offering more incentives and pay will motivate more people to become teachers, making the labor force more competitive to become a teacher. More educated/motivated teachers in smaller classroom sizes will be able to identify the kids who are struggling with home life, social life, education... whatever. They will also get to offer more relief to them.
-Lower Tuition costs, more trade schools, and less 'waiting for the supermen' rhetoric from schools. Kids growing up feel the stress of needing a college education in order to make it anywhere. But several know they could never achieve it, because for most it's a matter of location or situation at home or maybe they were too late to start trying for a high-grade scholarship. Kids learn at different paces, and primary/secondary school shouldn't be the place to look for these highly-motivated super scholars. My opinion? All primary/secondary students are inexperienced and idiotic. They only really learn about real life at college, trade school, work, volunteering, etc. Sure you kid might know how to integrate at 15, but have they applied that knowledge to anything other than a school standardized test or extra-tutoring? A kid at 15 has no idea what they're really learning about. They don't know why they need to learn this, or what use it really has to them until they have to research or work. Not to mention, with enough time, you can teach anybody to integrate. The highest any kid will learn through primary/secondary school is hardly anything sophisticated enough to be useful yet. Hell, most Bachelor's degrees teach anything hardly sophisticated to be useful yet. Trying to pick out these supermen in our schools while ignoring the rest of the students just creates more of a feeling of uselessness to those potential future mass shooters. Why should they bother learning, while they get the opportunities. Why should they deserve it. They don't deserve anything. So while you ignore all the little kids who usually amount to car mechanics and maids or whatever, there's that one little shit brewing his master plan of madness and the teachers think he's all hunky-dory because he barely passes standardized tests.
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In my experience, those who haven't been a victim of a serious crime, are very pro gun legislation.
Try talking to some people who have been shot.
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I used to own a gun, it was a .22LR pistol for competitive sports, I sold it a couple of years ago as I came to the conclusion that gun sports isn't my cup of tea.
I'd much rather start a technical history based gun collection with unique and odd and/or generation defining firearms, including fully functional replicas where originals are not avaliable from the 14th Century onwards.
Those old guns are cool, Chiappa makes cool knock-offs. You won't be able to protect your home or against mugging with a percussion rifle :P
No, not properly defend it with a percussion rifle, but the collection, once complete would have everything from match-locks and hand cannons to Heavy machine guns, prototype auto shotguns, caseless assault rifles and recoilless anti-tank guns provided I could afford it.
And home defence wouldn't be the Point of having it anyway :)
The .22LR pistol was a Unique Des. 69 http://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/server5100/7g4m0/products/111254/images/575588/IMG_1356__18146.1430841912.1280.1280.JPG?c=2
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just strict screening for assault weapons.
I'm still not sure what exactly "assault weapons" are. Technically anything could be used for assaulting someone, so anything could be an "assault weapon." Also, if you mean AR-15, AK-47 type weapons, I don't see how those are any more dangerous than just an everyday pistol. I don't see why we should have more strict screening for just those. If we are going to have more screening, then just do it for all guns. If anything, only automatic weapons are "more dangerous," but those are already banned.
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Nothing quite defends your home and purse as STANAG rounds... :wine:
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Nothing quite defends your home and purse as STANAG rounds... :wine:
Or for that matter some 75mm PzGr38 rounds ;)
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My theory about mass-shooters...
I find Oz's post very interesting.
I think big money's competition limiting mall project's should be aboandoned in favour of local small buissiness.
In Sweden it is much like in Portugal (see Delfos' post). However, gun crimes are on the rise. I think it has more to do with social unrest though, since the criminals have had no problem to get hold of illegal weapons. Thus I think that the US problem is closely related to social issues. Increased gun-control sounds fine, but how would it be enforced? There are so many guns in circulation and I don't think it's feasable to collect more than a few of them. Thus a ban would be toothless.
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My theory about mass-shooters...
I find Oz's post very interesting.
I think big money's competition limiting mall project's should be aboandoned in favour of local small buissiness.
In Sweden it is much like in Portugal (see Delfos' post). However, gun crimes are on the rise. I think it has more to do with social unrest though, since the criminals have had no problem to get hold of illegal weapons. Thus I think that the US problem is closely related to social issues. Increased gun-control sounds fine, but how would it be enforced? There are so many guns in circulation and I don't think it's feasable to collect more than a few of them. Thus a ban would be toothless.
I agree with this, most problems in society steps from social and economic inequality and those who doesn't would be easily dealt with otherwise.