Taijitu
City Center => Zocalo => Taijitu Founder Committee => Topic started by: Myroria on December 26, 2015, 10:11:44 PM
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We should hold a founder conference about both informal things such as our own personal disagreements with each other and how to resolve them for the good of the region, Taijitu politics and the founders, and formal things such as a look at the list of founders and amending the bylaws.
If we trim the list of founders, as has been suggested, I recommend a founder emeritus or founder reserve group consisting of people who are considered trustworthy in the event that we need to re-add someone to the committee.
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Eh, why not? Let this be our true constitutional convention.
I look forwards to seeing you all. :)
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I like the idea. Maybe getting everyone's grievances out in the open will help smooth things over.
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Agreed.
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Would this conference be held here? IRC? Skype?
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I would not be opposed to any of those methods, but I would like it to be clearly visible to anyone interested in seeing it.
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I think holding it on the forum is the easiest way to maintain a publicly visible log.
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Would this conference be held here? IRC? Skype?
In curiosity, has Skype become an actual thing here? I think we all remember what happened when I tried that... :P
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The forum is probably our best bet as far as transparency goes.
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I agree with this.
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Eh. I'm fine with whatever you guys wanna do in that regard.
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So we should ideally have SD, myself, Oz, PoD, Elu, Gulliver, and Allama here. I think only Elu and Allama might be an issue... I'm not sure how to contact the latter and the former hasn't been responding to any of my emails.
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I have not had any luck trying to contact Eluvatar either.
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My phone was in airplane mode, sorry.
I'm catching up on things, I suppose.
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I guess I'm just chopped liver then.
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I expect Myroria was listing people he'd like to show up who hadn't yet.
nm
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So we should ideally have SD, myself, Oz, PoD, Elu, Gulliver, and Allama here. I think only Elu and Allama might be an issue... I'm not sure how to contact the latter and the former hasn't been responding to any of my emails.
May I join? Pretty please?
:P
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So we should ideally have SD, myself, Oz, PoD, Elu, Gulliver, and Allama here. I think only Elu and Allama might be an issue... I'm not sure how to contact the latter and the former hasn't been responding to any of my emails.
May I join? Pretty please?
:P
No. It's past your bedtime.
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So we should ideally have SD, myself, Oz, PoD, Elu, Gulliver, and Allama here. I think only Elu and Allama might be an issue... I'm not sure how to contact the latter and the former hasn't been responding to any of my emails.
May I join? Pretty please?
:P
No. It's past your bedtime.
I'm curious to who are these founders for the conference, are they real founders as in they came from Lexicon? or are they from the Founder Committee? it's not very clear as you mentioned people from both ranks and missed some, I'll see if G-C is willing. It's also elitist as fck and not too specific to what the limits of this "conference" is, are you ONLY discussing the Founder Committee and Administration stuff or are you ALSO going to discuss formation of government and constitution? Because the latter seems to be a gross overreach for such a tiny group and against what people have been asking or promising. Maybe not only defining who comes (concept and list) to this conference and what exactly are the points of discussion would ease the little AwesomeSaucer heart and whoever else finds it weirdly unnecessary for the Founders to discuss anything else but themselves.
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So we should ideally have SD, myself, Oz, PoD, Elu, Gulliver, and Allama here. I think only Elu and Allama might be an issue... I'm not sure how to contact the latter and the former hasn't been responding to any of my emails.
May I join? Pretty please?
:P
No. It's past your bedtime.
I'm curious to who are these founders for the conference, are they real founders as in they came from Lexicon? or are they from the Founder Committee? it's not very clear as you mentioned people from both ranks and missed some, I'll see if G-C is willing. It's also elitist as fck and not too specific to what the limits of this "conference" is, are you ONLY discussing the Founder Committee and Administration stuff or are you ALSO going to discuss formation of government and constitution? Because the latter seems to be a gross overreach for such a tiny group and against what people have been asking or promising. Maybe not only defining who comes (concept and list) to this conference and what exactly are the points of discussion would ease the little AwesomeSaucer heart and whoever else finds it weirdly unnecessary for the Founders to discuss anything else but themselves.
It's not elitist, get off yer high horse. And no, there are other venues for discussing governmental reform. Opening another would accomplish nothing and only muddy the discussion.
My primary concern is that the PW to the founder was changed unilaterally without consultation of any of the rest of us.
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So we should ideally have SD, myself, Oz, PoD, Elu, Gulliver, and Allama here. I think only Elu and Allama might be an issue... I'm not sure how to contact the latter and the former hasn't been responding to any of my emails.
May I join? Pretty please?
:P
No. It's past your bedtime.
I hate to say it, but these comments seriously make me consider leaving.
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So we should ideally have SD, myself, Oz, PoD, Elu, Gulliver, and Allama here. I think only Elu and Allama might be an issue... I'm not sure how to contact the latter and the former hasn't been responding to any of my emails.
May I join? Pretty please?
:P
No. It's past your bedtime.
I'm curious to who are these founders for the conference, are they real founders as in they came from Lexicon? or are they from the Founder Committee? it's not very clear as you mentioned people from both ranks and missed some, I'll see if G-C is willing. It's also elitist as fck and not too specific to what the limits of this "conference" is, are you ONLY discussing the Founder Committee and Administration stuff or are you ALSO going to discuss formation of government and constitution? Because the latter seems to be a gross overreach for such a tiny group and against what people have been asking or promising. Maybe not only defining who comes (concept and list) to this conference and what exactly are the points of discussion would ease the little AwesomeSaucer heart and whoever else finds it weirdly unnecessary for the Founders to discuss anything else but themselves.
I honestly don't care about joining if it's just a meeting about the administration of the NS region.
I would be worried if the discussion was about the government itself. We haven't had our convention yet, and God knows we shouldn't make it behind closed doors.
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/me attend the conference.
Though I know none of the gritty details, I hear there has been a great deal of tumult and animosity in Taijitu as of late. I would like to help work things out or at least contribute a little to the admin restructuring as I’m able.
Kindly consider me back from the dead. :ghost:
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/me attend the conference.
Though I know none of the gritty details, I hear there has been a great deal of tumult and animosity in Taijitu as of late. I would like to help work things out or at least contribute a little to the admin restructuring as I’m able.
Kindly consider me back from the dead. :ghost:
/me comes out of lurking
OMG HI ALLAMA
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/me comes out of lurking
OMG HI ALLAMA
OMG HAI :wb:
Glad to be back!
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So we should ideally have SD, myself, Oz, PoD, Elu, Gulliver, and Allama here. I think only Elu and Allama might be an issue... I'm not sure how to contact the latter and the former hasn't been responding to any of my emails.
May I join? Pretty please?
:P
No. It's past your bedtime.
I'm curious to who are these founders for the conference, are they real founders as in they came from Lexicon? or are they from the Founder Committee? it's not very clear as you mentioned people from both ranks and missed some, I'll see if G-C is willing. It's also elitist as fck and not too specific to what the limits of this "conference" is, are you ONLY discussing the Founder Committee and Administration stuff or are you ALSO going to discuss formation of government and constitution? Because the latter seems to be a gross overreach for such a tiny group and against what people have been asking or promising. Maybe not only defining who comes (concept and list) to this conference and what exactly are the points of discussion would ease the little AwesomeSaucer heart and whoever else finds it weirdly unnecessary for the Founders to discuss anything else but themselves.
Thank you for your concerns. I have no plans to discuss the government itself; I can't speak for the other participants in these talks. I would be opposed in the highest to the Founder Committee acting alone to establish a government for Taijitu.
Omitting OT from my list was an oversight and I apologize. I think the discussion should be between everyone who holds the password for the founder - or did, rather. As far as I know, GC does not have that password. But he is welcome to come, as are all members of Taijitu.
My primary concern here is the coup that was about to take place. I understand Oz had issues with the administration team and constitution, but I think even he would admit that dissolving that document and ruling by fiat is a coup. I want the founders to vow not to allow a coup to happen, and certainly not support it. The Committee should have no business telling the government what to do other than that. If the people want to completely eliminate the system we have now that is there prerogative and I don't think the founders should stop them. But they should stop one person from doing it themselves, even if they think that person would do well as a dictator.
Obviously I will mention the elephant in the room and say that I have the password and I will give it only to people I can trust. Written in the Committee rules or not, the founders have a duty to uphold the law lest we fall into the sort of power politics that plague GCRs.
In the process of these talks we should also discuss our personal issues in a frank but respectful manner and seek reconciliation.
The matter of the constitution and the laws should be left to citizens alone.
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So we should ideally have SD, myself, Oz, PoD, Elu, Gulliver, and Allama here. I think only Elu and Allama might be an issue... I'm not sure how to contact the latter and the former hasn't been responding to any of my emails.
May I join? Pretty please?
:P
No. It's past your bedtime.
I'm curious to who are these founders for the conference, are they real founders as in they came from Lexicon? or are they from the Founder Committee? it's not very clear as you mentioned people from both ranks and missed some, I'll see if G-C is willing. It's also elitist as fck and not too specific to what the limits of this "conference" is, are you ONLY discussing the Founder Committee and Administration stuff or are you ALSO going to discuss formation of government and constitution? Because the latter seems to be a gross overreach for such a tiny group and against what people have been asking or promising. Maybe not only defining who comes (concept and list) to this conference and what exactly are the points of discussion would ease the little AwesomeSaucer heart and whoever else finds it weirdly unnecessary for the Founders to discuss anything else but themselves.
Thank you for your concerns. I have no plans to discuss the government itself; I can't speak for the other participants in these talks. I would be opposed in the highest to the Founder Committee acting alone to establish a government for Taijitu.
Omitting OT from my list was an oversight and I apologize. I think the discussion should be between everyone who holds the password for the founder - or did, rather. As far as I know, GC does not have that password. But he is welcome to come, as are all members of Taijitu.
My primary concern here is the coup that was about to take place. I understand Oz had issues with the administration team and constitution, but I think even he would admit that dissolving that document and ruling by fiat is a coup. I want the founders to vow not to allow a coup to happen, and certainly not support it. The Committee should have no business telling the government what to do other than that. If the people want to completely eliminate the system we have now that is there prerogative and I don't think the founders should stop them. But they should stop one person from doing it themselves, even if they think that person would do well as a dictator.
Obviously I will mention the elephant in the room and say that I have the password and I will give it only to people I can trust. Written in the Committee rules or not, the founders have a duty to uphold the law lest we fall into the sort of power politics that plague GCRs.
In the process of these talks we should also discuss our personal issues in a frank but respectful manner and seek reconciliation.
The matter of the constitution and the laws should be left to citizens alone.
So far as I myself know, there was no actual coup in process. Oz did what he did, but would have kept the founder out of it as that is a line that I don't think any of us would cross. The founder has always been off limits for that kind of shit.
Now, as for yourself changing the password, yes. I understand why you changed the PW, as you thought there was a threat to the region. Fine. I get that. However... not informing the rest of us after the fact, nor consulting with us... also crosses a lone that even I, at my most autocratic.. would not even contemplate.
Do you remember the last time one of the founders did something like this? For all practical points and purposes, this is hijacking the founder. No matter how just you feel your reasons are, you do not have the right to do that no more so than I or any of the others.
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So we should ideally have SD, myself, Oz, PoD, Elu, Gulliver, and Allama here. I think only Elu and Allama might be an issue... I'm not sure how to contact the latter and the former hasn't been responding to any of my emails.
May I join? Pretty please?
:P
No. It's past your bedtime.
I'm curious to who are these founders for the conference, are they real founders as in they came from Lexicon? or are they from the Founder Committee? it's not very clear as you mentioned people from both ranks and missed some, I'll see if G-C is willing. It's also elitist as fck and not too specific to what the limits of this "conference" is, are you ONLY discussing the Founder Committee and Administration stuff or are you ALSO going to discuss formation of government and constitution? Because the latter seems to be a gross overreach for such a tiny group and against what people have been asking or promising. Maybe not only defining who comes (concept and list) to this conference and what exactly are the points of discussion would ease the little AwesomeSaucer heart and whoever else finds it weirdly unnecessary for the Founders to discuss anything else but themselves.
Thank you for your concerns. I have no plans to discuss the government itself; I can't speak for the other participants in these talks. I would be opposed in the highest to the Founder Committee acting alone to establish a government for Taijitu.
Omitting OT from my list was an oversight and I apologize. I think the discussion should be between everyone who holds the password for the founder - or did, rather. As far as I know, GC does not have that password. But he is welcome to come, as are all members of Taijitu.
My primary concern here is the coup that was about to take place. I understand Oz had issues with the administration team and constitution, but I think even he would admit that dissolving that document and ruling by fiat is a coup. I want the founders to vow not to allow a coup to happen, and certainly not support it. The Committee should have no business telling the government what to do other than that. If the people want to completely eliminate the system we have now that is there prerogative and I don't think the founders should stop them. But they should stop one person from doing it themselves, even if they think that person would do well as a dictator.
Obviously I will mention the elephant in the room and say that I have the password and I will give it only to people I can trust. Written in the Committee rules or not, the founders have a duty to uphold the law lest we fall into the sort of power politics that plague GCRs.
In the process of these talks we should also discuss our personal issues in a frank but respectful manner and seek reconciliation.
The matter of the constitution and the laws should be left to citizens alone.
Ah, I see. Best of luck to whoever obtains the password.
Also, Hi, Allama! Fantastic to see you again! :D
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Would it help for me to try to come up with a single post covering the timeline of events and referencing people's relevant statements?
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Maybe this should be an annual event and the password holders picked by lottery, Gulliver was suggesting a similar process to break ties, randomization is paramount to our new Taijitu.
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Maybe this should be an annual event and the password holders picked by lottery, Gulliver was suggesting a similar process to break ties, randomization is paramount to our new Taijitu.
That seems like literally the worst idea ever.
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Maybe this should be an annual event and the password holders picked by lottery, Gulliver was suggesting a similar process to break ties, randomization is paramount to our new Taijitu.
That seems like literally the worst idea ever.
IKR
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If you agree it's terrible, why suggest it?
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Satire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satire
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I don't think that's helpful in this topic. It's a context in which I would expect earnest contributions.
As you can see, your satirical utterance derailed this discussion. This doesn't help.
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Not really.
There's not much else to discuss, I think everyone explained what they want and I haven't seen any other proposals from you or founder friends. What you really need is this conference to happen asap so we can all have other things to do.
(http://theawkwardyeti.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/1204_PhilosopherHeart.png)
and maybe you need to chill
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I've opened a formal conference (http://forum.taijitu.org/taijitu-founder-committee/the-founder-conference/) in this forum. Please feel free to comment on any subject on the agenda or otherwise raised in it here. Ultimately any changes to the arrangements should need the approval of the body of citizens.
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I've opened a formal conference (http://forum.taijitu.org/taijitu-founder-committee/the-founder-conference/) in this forum. Please feel free to comment on any subject on the agenda or otherwise raised in it here. Ultimately any changes to the arrangements should need the approval of the body of citizens.
1st!
Anyway I really like the way you "mounted" the conference, well explained and good info for everyone to read. Great job! Although it favors a certain point of view I look forward for any other founders with different points of view to explain it to the rest of us how the see the issues or what they propose. Make sure to take in consideration the recent proposals for NSGP that could please all parties, it would certainly make Taijitu unique.
:clap:
(http://www.pesasoko.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/go-get.jpg)
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it favors a certain point of view
How?
(Please tell me so I can seek to improve its neutrality).
Make sure to take in consideration the recent proposals for NSGP that could please all parties, it would certainly make Taijitu unique.
How is TaiMil policy etc relevant to the conference?
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it favors a certain point of view
How?
(Please tell me so I can seek to improve its neutrality).
Make sure to take in consideration the recent proposals for NSGP that could please all parties, it would certainly make Taijitu unique.
How is TaiMil policy etc relevant to the conference?
If Treaties and embassies are relevant to the conference, it immediately affects TaiMil. Recent proposals suggest further independence from treaties (and embassies), if approved it affects TaiMil, so, by discussing chain of events with treaties and embassies, you will inherently be affecting NSGP/TaiMil, which may become terribly obsolete if recent proposals are approved.
It favors a certain point of view because it mentions the treaties (which I already said they may become obsolete) and what St Oz may have or have not done, makes it that the focus are those treaties and St Oz, so I'd like to see other points of view. For instance, I've heard this sentence - "which ended with Myroria changing the password" - in a completely different way the other day, it's a different point of view that I'd like to see others address. It could also include something in the lines of: Myroria came back to Taijitu to bring the Founder back from deceased to exist because no other Founder was active. After all it's a very defined job of the Founder Committee.
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I can definitely see pointing out that no other Founder had acted to keep the nation alive, but I disagree entirely with your assessment regarding the relevance of embassies (& treaties) vs other Gameplay matters.
The incidents with our onsite embassies are relevant because the opening and closing of onsite embassies is part of regional controls, and because the back and forth over embassies led to intention to coup. Treaties are relevant to this discussion insofar as some embassies are legally required by our treaties, and therefore use of regional controls to close those embassies is illegal. (Which treaties we ought to have, however, is actually not relevant to the conference, in my understanding.)
Military activity by Taijituans outside Taijitu itself does not involve Taijitu regional controls and therefore has nothing to do with the founder nation.
Regardless of whether the treaties are retained in the future, they are in force at present, and are relevant to the incident. I would like to see us come to an agreement to prevent such incidents in the future. This involves examining the incident itself and understanding both how and why it occurred and how the various escalating actions related to regional law and politics.
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I'm going to request/apply for a seat on the Founder Committee. I was a founding member of Taijitu and I was involved in the refounding years back. *points to the seal/medal in his signature.
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Oh well, glad to see that all good things happen around holidays. You chaps have definitely broken the boredom of the long days between Christmas and New Year's, thought you'd all be playing your new consoles and humping your trees, since besides SD and Neil nobody here seems to have a sex life. NS really is a Grinch.
As you all know my presence in Taijitu has been scarce at best, RL has taken precedence and since I have never been big on RP, what has kept me active has been the actual NS GP and the group of lunatics who have made up my first ever online 2nd family. Most of those things are now gone.
Since the TRR Lovefest (as the man behind Kandarin-then still refers to it, in closed circles and it makes the woman behind Kandarin-now giggle) I can't remember if I have ever had access to the controls of the founder nation for obvious reasons but as most of you know, I've always held Taijitu at heart and always will. That being said, I will contribute to this discussions in the limits of my spare time - that is generally scarce - and to the extent that I will be needed.
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Oh well, glad to see that all good things happen around holidays. You chaps have definitely broken the boredom of the long days between Christmas and New Year's, thought you'd all be playing your new consoles and humping your trees, since besides SD and Neil nobody here seems to have a sex life. NS really is a Grinch.
Hey, I resent that statement.
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hello Taijitu Founders and others
Though I am not a member of the Founder's Council I would like to address all of you. It's about time a permanent, fair solution to the Tai Founder situation was worked out.
Myro seized control of the Founder while under the belief that a coup was imminent. This Conference was a means to try and resolve that tension. I don't blame him for what he did. He acted in the best interests of the region. I am simply stating that a solution to the current situation is needed. The current limbo is unacceptable.
I'm asking you all to consider this proposition.
1) The Founder's Council will consist of all members prior to Myro's seizure. Any changes to the Council's makeup can be addressed once shared control of the Founder is restored.
2) Myro will agree to a new password that will be shared with all members of the council.
3) All members of the council will have equal access to a new email account linked with the Founder.
4) All members, Myro included, will promise to abide by the following points.
-the Founder won't be used to open or close embassies. That is the role of the elected Citizen-Delegate in conjunction with the will of the Ecclesia.
-the Founder will not be used to alter the regional World Factbook Entry unless it is to correct an oversight or mistake.
-the Founder will not be used to ban anyone from the region unless the Founder is being accessed to fend off an attack on the region.
-the Founder can be used to circumnavigate the authority of the Delegate should the Delegate attempt to coup the Constitutional government of Taijitu.