Taijitu
Government of Taijitu => The Ecclesia => Proposals and Discussion => Topic started by: St Oz on December 17, 2015, 09:25:10 AM
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Taijitu's Stance
- Taijitu is not Defender
- Taijitu is not Raider
- Taijitu is SUPER-Raider
Let's vote on this in 3 days
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Taijitu shouldn't be in the business of picking on or destroying other communities.
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Taijitu shouldn't be in the business of picking on or destroying other communities.
Or we could annoy the heck out of foundered regions.
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I think you all know how I feel about NS gameplay... :P
Well, for those of you who don't, I think we should get as far away from NS as possible.
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I think you all know how I feel about NS gameplay... :P
Well, for those of you who don't, I think we should get as far away from NS as possible.
Then maybe don't get involved with it? Taijitu will always be an NS thing, whether it grows beyond that or not is up to us, but it will never grow out of it.
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I think you all know how I feel about NS gameplay... :P
Well, for those of you who don't, I think we should get as far away from NS as possible.
Then maybe don't get involved with it? Taijitu will always be an NS thing, whether it grows beyond that or not is up to us, but it will never grow out of it.
We just need to make it so that people don't have to go through NS to come here.
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Wut? :anguish:
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Taijitu shouldn't be in the business of picking on or destroying other communities.
But we're super-raiders, we wouldn't be in the business of destroying communities.
We'd be in the business of destroying worlds!
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I think you all know how I feel about NS gameplay... :P
Well, for those of you who don't, I think we should get as far away from NS as possible.
Then maybe don't get involved with it? Taijitu will always be an NS thing, whether it grows beyond that or not is up to us, but it will never grow out of it.
We just need to make it so that people don't have to go through NS to come here.
Taijitu is a NationStates community based around a NationStates region. Of course people are going to come to it through NationStates.
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I think you all know how I feel about NS gameplay... :P
Well, for those of you who don't, I think we should get as far away from NS as possible.
Then maybe don't get involved with it? Taijitu will always be an NS thing, whether it grows beyond that or not is up to us, but it will never grow out of it.
We just need to make it so that people don't have to go through NS to come here.
Taijitu is a NationStates community based around a NationStates region. Of course people are going to come to it through NationStates.
Precisely.
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I think you all know how I feel about NS gameplay... :P
Well, for those of you who don't, I think we should get as far away from NS as possible.
Then maybe don't get involved with it? Taijitu will always be an NS thing, whether it grows beyond that or not is up to us, but it will never grow out of it.
We just need to make it so that people don't have to go through NS to come here.
Taijitu is a NationStates community based around a NationStates region. Of course people are going to come to it through NationStates.
Who says we can't advertise outside of NS? Y'know, social media, YouTube, etc. I'd love that. :)
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Who says we can't advertise outside of NS? Y'know, social media, YouTube, etc. I'd love that. :)
Then do that, but we've been having issues keeping the people we have now, Taijitu will never work that way, it will grow out from NS, but you can't bring people from out of NS into Taijitu.
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The whole raiding and invasion aspect of NS Gameplay isn't exactly my niche, and it would turn the region into something else than what I expect from it. If we're going to bring focus into RP and worldbuilding, as I think was the platform the current party's trying to develop, we shouldn't divert our efforts to raiding.
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Raiding and defending have always been part of Taijitu just as RP and worldbuilding have been, its never caused issues before, the issue here is GP, which is not quite as simple as just raiding and defending, for that matter raiding and defending are amongst the simplest things to do, in fact some of our more prominent RPers(in the past) were very active in GP as well.
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Who says we can't advertise outside of NS? Y'know, social media, YouTube, etc. I'd love that. :)
Then do that
Yup nothing stopping you! :thumbsup:
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The whole raiding and invasion aspect of NS Gameplay isn't exactly my niche, and it would turn the region into something else than what I expect from it. If we're going to bring focus into RP and worldbuilding, as I think was the platform the current party's trying to develop, we shouldn't divert our efforts to raiding.
Well I wouldn't call it a platform but certainly a focus ;)
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My Stance
- St Oz is not Right
- St Oz is not Right
- St Oz is SUPER-Right
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I'm not a citizen, but I'm an active member of TITO(defense program) and my job is to make friends with you guys, so I'm kinda for the whole defense thing.
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I'm not a citizen, but I'm an active member of TITO(defense program) and my job is to make friends with you guys, so I'm kinda for the whole defense thing.
[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnZ5bpH8aec[/yt]
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I'm not a citizen, but I'm an active member of TITO(defense program) and my job is to make friends with you guys, so I'm kinda for the whole defense thing.
Kinda maybe? So there's room for some raiderism.
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I'm not a citizen, but I'm an active member of TITO(defense program) and my job is to make friends with you guys, so I'm kinda for the whole defense thing.
Kinda maybe? So there's room for some raiderism.
Anti-raiderism, in my case :p
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Taijitu shouldn't be in the business of picking on or destroying other communities.
First off we need to gain some perspective. No one "destroys" communities in NS. A region that's been successfully raided has been, at the worst, inconvenienced. Raiders either leave once they've had their fun or the people of the raided region just re-group and form a new region. Preferably one with an active founder to discourage further raiding.
Friendships aren't torn asunder by raiding. Off-sight message boards aren't shut down. Raiding =/= "destroying communities." It barely qualifies as harassment.
To your larger point. I actually agree. Which is why Taijitu's "sovereignist" ideology is so despicable. Taking a stand to proactively protect Taijitu from those who have attacked us is one thing. Attacking Raiders who have never attacked Taijitu just because they're Raiders? It's hypocritical to the extreme.
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First off we need to gain some perspective. No one "destroys" communities in NS. A region that's been successfully raided has been, at the worst, inconvenienced. Raiders either leave once they've had their fun or the people of the raided region just re-group and form a new region. Preferably one with an active founder to discourage further raiding.
[region]Fandom Alliance[/region] was a founderless community. Then the raiders came in and never left once they'd "had their fun". They instead stuck around until all the natives were forced to leave and the community fell apart.
More recently, [region]Japan[/region] was another well-off founderless community until they got raided. In this case, the natives (with help from organizations like the Citizens' Militia) were able to win out, but they've had to lock the region for safety because of the permanent threat of raids. New members can't join now and the region is effectively moribund.
And now they're doing the same thing in [region]St Abbaddon[/region], a region which is too old to have ever had founder. They've been there a month. They have absolutely no intention of leaving once they've "had their fun". They're going to sit there until they have enough influence to boot out all the region's natives so they can refound the region as a lifeless trophy. This is a region and community which is over 10 years old and they're erasing it from the game so they add one more trophy to their collection.
These are just a few of numerous examples. Raiders are perfectly willing to destroy regions when capable just for kicks and a trophy. If Taijitu raids, that's who we'll be running with and chances are we'll end up participating in one of these operations which does cause a community to fall apart.
To your larger point. I actually agree. Which is why Taijitu's "sovereignist" ideology is so despicable. Taking a stand to proactively protect Taijitu from those who have attacked us is one thing. Attacking Raiders who have never attacked Taijitu just because they're Raiders? It's hypocritical to the extreme.
It's not despicable or hypocritical at all. If you willingly violate the sovereignty of another then you forfeit your own, that is an explicitly stated and internally consistent part of the ideology. If you attack regions, then they and their allies have the right to fight back.
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It's not despicable or hypocritical at all.
Well if you say so Gulliver ::)
If you willingly violate the sovereignty of another then you forfeit your own, that is an explicitly stated and internally consistent part of the ideology. If you attack regions, then they and their allies have the right to fight back.
Taijitu should fight back against those who have attacked it. You go on about "destroying communities." We're no better if we support or contribute to a foreign policy that attacks regions, Raider or otherwise, that have never attacked us.
At the end of the day? "Sovereigntism" is just an excuse to pile on people who enjoy a meta game in a different way you do. I, for one, don't want to see my region be a part of that.
In my opinion? We shouldn't engage in any offensive operation unless the target has expressly harmed Taijitu in the past. And no, TNP or its allies don't count. I know this may come as a shock to some of my colleagues here, but Taijitu is in fact its own distinct region. Let's stand up to those that threatened us. Not go around harassing people who enjoy NS in a way you personally disapprove of.
Fandom Alliance was a founderless community. Then the raiders came in and never left once they'd "had their fun". They instead stuck around until all the natives were forced to leave and the community fell apart.
First off, it's their own fault for not maintaining an active founder.
Secondly? There was nothing stopping the natives from regrouping off-site (on, say, a message board) and founding a new region. Raiders didn't destroy that community. Apathy did.
More recently, Japan was another well-off founderless community until they got raided. In this case, the natives (with help from organizations like the Citizens' Militia) were able to win out, but they've had to lock the region for safety because of the permanent threat of raids. New members can't join now and the region is effectively moribund.
Again. Off-site forums. Skype. IRC. Plenty of options to regroup, leave the Raiders with the abandoned husk Japan, and form a new Founder-serviced region.
And now they're doing the same thing in St Abbaddon, a region which is too old to have ever had founder. They've been there a month. They have absolutely no intention of leaving once they've "had their fun". They're going to sit there until they have enough influence to boot out all the region's natives so they can refound the region as a lifeless trophy. This is a region and community which is over 10 years old and they're erasing it from the game so they add one more trophy to their collection.
Same thing. Again. I'm sure St. Abbaddon has an off-site forum. I'm sure a community as old as they are have enough established members who have each others' IM information to coordinate outside of the NS site. This isn't a problem. Have the natives leave and establish a new region with a Founder. Something that will all but guarantee Raiders won't even consider attacking.
I'm sorry Gulliver. You keep going on about all of these communities that Raiders have destroyed, and I just don't see it. I see "communities" that had all they needed to survive their NS region being raided but simply didn't care enough to do what was needed to keep things together.
Say Taijitu was, somehow, successfully raided. I'd still talk to my friends I've made here regularly. Oz, OT, Dixie, Delfos, Khem, and POD's contact info wouldn't suddenly vanish from my Skpe address book. The Taijitu forums wouldn't vanish from the innerwebs. The IRC channel would still be there. We'd have the tools to not only continue on as a community but the means to create a new NS region. Taijitu 2: Revenge of the Fallen. A Michael Bay Production.
This is why the whole NS gameplay thing doesn't interest me. It's not as simple as it not being my cup of tea. I did give it a chance. At the end of the day? It's just various groups of people acting self-righteous about a meta game. Raiding, defending. I can't be bothered to pretend that either has any sort of moral highground. Especially not with the rise of the "sovereigntist" ideology.
What I care about is Taijitu. Even you Gulliver, and Elu ;) I believe we should protect ourselves. No more. No less.
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First off we need to gain some perspective. No one "destroys" communities in NS. A region that's been successfully raided has been, at the worst, inconvenienced. Raiders either leave once they've had their fun or the people of the raided region just re-group and form a new region. Preferably one with an active founder to discourage further raiding.
[region]Fandom Alliance[/region] was a founderless community. Then the raiders came in and never left once they'd "had their fun". They instead stuck around until all the natives were forced to leave and the community fell apart.
More recently, [region]Japan[/region] was another well-off founderless community until they got raided. In this case, the natives (with help from organizations like the Citizens' Militia) were able to win out, but they've had to lock the region for safety because of the permanent threat of raids. New members can't join now and the region is effectively moribund.
And now they're doing the same thing in [region]St Abbaddon[/region], a region which is too old to have ever had founder. They've been there a month. They have absolutely no intention of leaving once they've "had their fun". They're going to sit there until they have enough influence to boot out all the region's natives so they can refound the region as a lifeless trophy. This is a region and community which is over 10 years old and they're erasing it from the game so they add one more trophy to their collection.
These are just a few of numerous examples. Raiders are perfectly willing to destroy regions when capable just for kicks and a trophy. If Taijitu raids, that's who we'll be running with and chances are we'll end up participating in one of these operations which does cause a community to fall apart.
To your larger point. I actually agree. Which is why Taijitu's "sovereignist" ideology is so despicable. Taking a stand to proactively protect Taijitu from those who have attacked us is one thing. Attacking Raiders who have never attacked Taijitu just because they're Raiders? It's hypocritical to the extreme.
It's not despicable or hypocritical at all. If you willingly violate the sovereignty of another then you forfeit your own, that is an explicitly stated and internally consistent part of the ideology. If you attack regions, then they and their allies have the right to fight back.
Wow. The butt hurt is real. Calm it down there, Churchill.
It takes two to tango, tow halves make a coin blah blah blah. Without raiders the moral high horse riders on the defender end of things would have nothing to wank their morally self righteous hate boners to. *rolls eyes*
I call raiding natural selection. If you're too fucking lazy to make an off site forum or give so few fucks about your regional cohabitants as to form some kind of lasting bond of community beyond NS then *shrugs* sorry bout ya.
In short, cry me a fucking river.
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Den's got some cool stripes.
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Taijitu should fight back against those who have attacked it. You go on about "destroying communities." We're no better if we support or contribute to a foreign policy that attacks regions, Raider or otherwise, that have never attacked us.
At the end of the day? "Sovereigntism" is just an excuse to pile on people who enjoy a meta game in a different way you do. I, for one, don't want to see my region be a part of that.
There is a difference between attacking communities that have not wronged others and attacking communities who exist solely to victimize other regions. Also, if it's okay for them to pick and choose who they raid, why is it a problem for us to do the same?
In my opinion? We shouldn't engage in any offensive operation unless the target has expressly harmed Taijitu in the past. And no, TNP or its allies don't count. I know this may come as a shock to some of my colleagues here, but Taijitu is in fact its own distinct region.
Our currently military policy was adopted following a free debate and an open, fair vote of citizens, not under the shadowy influence of some foreigners. In fact, TNP's military actually in fact occasionally raids, which conflicts with our current policy.
First off, it's their own fault for not maintaining an active founder.
Only people with access to the founder nation can do that, most people living in these regions don't have that.
Say Taijitu was, somehow, successfully raided. I'd still talk to my friends I've made here regularly. Oz, OT, Dixie, Delfos, Khem, and POD's contact info wouldn't suddenly vanish from my Skpe address book. The Taijitu forums wouldn't vanish from the innerwebs. The IRC channel would still be there. We'd have the tools to not only continue on as a community but the means to create a new NS region. Taijitu 2: Revenge of the Fallen. A Michael Bay Production.
I am surprised you can discard Taijitu so callously in this hypothetical situation. This region is my home and has a history that another region wouldn't. Yes, this is just a browser game and we can rebuild, but being forced out of my home in that game would nevertheless sting and I can empathize with those who actually have had that situation forced on them. Sometimes a region itself can be an integral part of a community.
Wow. The butt hurt is real. Calm it down there, Churchill.
That we disagree on military policy does not mean that you have to project the worst possible tone on my comments and immediately resort to insult and condescension.
I call raiding natural selection. If you're too fucking lazy to make an off site forum or give so few fucks about your regional cohabitants as to form some kind of lasting bond of community beyond NS then *shrugs* sorry bout ya.
There are currently 85 nations piled on the raider lead in St. Abbaddon. To realistically have a shot at liberating it, you would need to get between 95 and 105 people to simultaneously jump into the region at update without any mistakes, maybe more if they have a lot of active regional officers. I don't think any military in NationStates history, defender or raider, has ever put together an updater force anywhere even near that large. The reality is, once raiders take a region with a handful of updaters, they can freely pile numbers like this into the region if they're set on permanently capturing it, like with St. Abbaddon. Do you really think that its fair to blame founderless regions for being unable to muster a force of unheard, historical proportions to liberate themselves?
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I will project whatever I decide to project into the argument because I'm sick and tired after ten fucking years of hearing about the Save The Pixels Foundation.
The amount of smug that defenders generate is probably the true culprit of climate change. Seriously. Every time these inane discussions crop up I feel like I need a fucking pair of hip waders because the shit gets piled on so thick.
I didn't buy the defender talking points back then, nor do I now, or at any point between then and now. If their argument was simply a choice in style of game play, then I would be on board. But instead they go all fucking Sara McLaughlin playing "In the Arms of The Angels" while holding up the latest poster region saying "For only one endo a day, you can help keep the citizens of [Insert Region Here] from suffering brutal online tyranny."
Defender. Raider. It's just playstyle choices. Neither to me are the "Good guys" and any claim to the contrary should be kept purely RP. Except they don't do that, they try to paint themselves as the fucking White Knights of NS and it's fucking stupid.
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Taijitu should fight back against those who have attacked it. You go on about "destroying communities." We're no better if we support or contribute to a foreign policy that attacks regions, Raider or otherwise, that have never attacked us.
At the end of the day? "Sovereigntism" is just an excuse to pile on people who enjoy a meta game in a different way you do. I, for one, don't want to see my region be a part of that.
There is a difference between attacking communities that have not wronged others and attacking communities who exist solely to victimize other regions. Also, if it's okay for them to pick and choose who they raid, why is it a problem for us to do the same?
Because we're not them. All your doing is victimizing someone for playing the game in a way you don't like. Which isn't much better than what Raiders do. It's worse in some ways. At least Raiders are honest about what they're doing.
Our currently military policy was adopted following a free debate and an open, fair vote of citizens...
I'm not high on Taijitu's current "democratic" processes at the moment. It's certainly hard to believe that certain policies haven't been adopted without strong foreign influence. It's no surprise that the people who pushed heavily for "sovereigntism" are heavily involved in other Defender-orineted regions.
And from where I'm standing? The love for an assertive Defender stance isn't universally beloved here.
Only people with access to the founder nation can do that, most people living in these regions don't have that.
Plenty of regions manage to maintain founders. Those that don't? It's a failure on their end. Either by failing to set up a system to ensure the Founder doesn't go inactive (like the system we have) or to develop a community strong enough where the Founder can be addressed by the community as a whole if Founder inactivity is an issue.
Wow. The butt hurt is real. Calm it down there, Churchill.
That we disagree on military policy does not mean that you have to project the worst possible tone on my comments and immediately resort to insult and condescension.
Heh. Given what's transpired over the last month or so? You really shouldn't be playing the "projection" card.
Say Taijitu was, somehow, successfully raided. I'd still talk to my friends I've made here regularly. Oz, OT, Dixie, Delfos, Khem, and POD's contact info wouldn't suddenly vanish from my Skpe address book. The Taijitu forums wouldn't vanish from the innerwebs. The IRC channel would still be there. We'd have the tools to not only continue on as a community but the means to create a new NS region. Taijitu 2: Revenge of the Fallen. A Michael Bay Production.
I am surprised you can discard Taijitu so callously in this hypothetical situation.
Again, with the projection from you. Who said I'm discarding Taijitu in this situation?
You may not like this fact Gulliver, but I consider Taijitu a home of sorts too. I'm not discarding it at all. It's just that Taijitu, to me, is more than a NS region. It's certainly that, but it's so much more. In my opinion.
Taijitu is the people who make it up. This forum, which is safely beyond Raider influence, is Tajitu's online home. Not the NS page. Taijitu is Oz, Dixie, OT, Khem, Delfos, POD Gunner, Myro, Elu, and yourself Gulliver. And so many more people on top of that. We're Taijitu. If, somehow, Taijitu were raided? We'd regroup here. Or over Skype. Or on IRC. We'd set up a new Taijitu region on NS, and our community will have remained unscratched. Unsullied.
Would we be inconvenienced? Yeah, but our community would far from destroyed.
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Again, with the projection from you. Who said I'm discarding Taijitu in this situation?
You may not like this fact Gulliver, but I consider Taijitu a home of sorts too. I'm not discarding it at all. It's just that Taijitu, to me, is more than a NS region. It's certainly that, but it's so much more. In my opinion.
Taijitu is the people who make it up. This forum, which is safely beyond Raider influence, is Tajitu's online home. Not the NS page. Taijitu is Oz, Dixie, OT, Khem, Delfos, POD Gunner, Myro, Elu, and yourself Gulliver. And so many more people on top of that. We're Taijitu. If, somehow, Taijitu were raided? We'd regroup here. Or over Skype. Or on IRC. We'd set up a new Taijitu region on NS, and our community will have remained unscratched. Unsullied.
Would we be inconvenienced? Yeah, but our community would far from destroyed.
Not to mention, then we could organise our response to the attack. I'd have a fucking field day with that. *evil grin*
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Yep. I'm not opposed to proactive action against those who have harmed us. Mess with the bull? You get the horns.
The NS Taijitu Region is just our outlet on the NS site. This forum, and the IRC channels? Those are what I consider to be "Taijitu." We could reorganize on NS easily enough. As could any NS community worth saving.
If a Raider incursion is all it takes to tear down a community and render it destroyed? Even one that's ten years old? Well neither the world or NS game is probably out much anyway.
My stance?
Taijitu shouldn't Raid because I don't believe we should harass those who have done nothing to us.
Taijitu should abandon "sovereigntism" for the same reason.
Taijitu should engage in military operations, both defensive and offensive, if it's in the interest of Taijitu's security. Attacking Raiders who have never even paid us any mind doesn't qualify.
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I am having trouble finding words to express how disappointed and, frankly, kind of hurt I am by how this conversation has progressed. I know we don't agree on a lot and aren't anything like bestest-best-friends-forever, but I had though we were on amiable enough terms to afford each other a modicum of basic respect and civility.
A proposal was made about military policy was made. I disagreed with the proposal and calmly stated the reasons why. In return I was insulted and accused of being high and mighty and smug without provocation on my part.
This is just a game, and I'm perfectly aware of that. I don't have any illusions that raiding is somehow a crime on par with real life invasion. That would be ridiculous. But within the scope of this political simulation, I choose to be on the side that opposes it, and all I've done are stated my reasons and arguments for being on that side. It's not different than when we debate the merits of other laws and policies for our simulated government which ultimately has no real life consequence.
If you disagree with them and I can't convince you otherwise, that's fine. That's politics and part of the game. But if my position and the reasons for it upset you so much that you feel the need to immediately dismiss and insult me simply for stating them, then you may be the one who needs to reevaluate how seriously you're taking this.
Again, this is just a game, I play it to have fun. If this community has decided that my contributions to the region mean so little that it's okay to respond to my positions in legislative debates with cheap insults (which certainly seems to be the case right now), then I don't see much reason in sticking around.
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I am having trouble finding words to express how disappointed and, frankly, kind of hurt I am by how this conversation has progressed. I know we don't agree on a lot and aren't anything like bestest-best-friends-forever, but I had though we were on amiable enough terms to afford each other a modicum of basic respect and civility.
I'll be perfectly frank.
I thought we were on amiable terms...about a month and a half ago. I considered you, not a friend, but an acquaintance I respected...about a month and a half ago.
Since that time? You've described my friends and myself as "toxic" and "vindictive." (http://forum.taijitu.org/general-discussion/bye/msg162448/#msg162448) You've accused me things I never did. Of orchestrating hateful acts I never had a hand in. Accusations that both insulted my character and hurt me personally. And for these deeds I never did and for these actions I never had a hand in? You tell me "you've made your bed, now you'll have to sleep in it."
Which, given your status as a site admin, could be construed as threatening.
I never had a bad thing to say about you, Gulliver. Not a single thing. It's why I reached out to you when things were tense.
I'm sad that's not how things are now, I really am. I'm not sure what there is left to say though.
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I am having trouble finding words to express how disappointed and, frankly, kind of hurt I am by how this conversation has progressed. I know we don't agree on a lot and aren't anything like bestest-best-friends-forever, but I had though we were on amiable enough terms to afford each other a modicum of basic respect and civility.
A proposal was made about military policy was made. I disagreed with the proposal and calmly stated the reasons why. In return I was insulted and accused of being high and mighty and smug without provocation on my part.
This is just a game, and I'm perfectly aware of that. I don't have any illusions that raiding is somehow a crime on par with real life invasion. That would be ridiculous. But within the scope of this political simulation, I choose to be on the side that opposes it, and all I've done are stated my reasons and arguments for being on that side. It's not different than when we debate the merits of other laws and policies for our simulated government which ultimately has no real life consequence.
If you disagree with them and I can't convince you otherwise, that's fine. That's politics and part of the game. But if my position and the reasons for it upset you so much that you feel the need to immediately dismiss and insult me simply for stating them, then you may be the one who needs to reevaluate how seriously you're taking this.
Again, this is just a game, I play it to have fun. If this community has decided that my contributions to the region mean so little that it's okay to respond to my positions in legislative debates with cheap insults (which certainly seems to be the case right now), then I don't see much reason in sticking around.
You're the one taking it personal. Used to be I could say what I thought, and people took it for what it was. Me ranting or whatever. Now everyone acts as if I've just ass raped a kitten.
Frankly, I no longer give a shit if I rustle a few jimmies. That went out the window when I came back and seen how many chips there were sitting on various shoulders.
So, do what ya want.
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waaaaaaaaaaast, set a voooooote
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:wine:
My apologies for my behaviour here. I'll reiterate my points.
I consider Raiding and the Defender ideology of "sovereigntism" to be one in the same. I don't believe we as a region need to engage or adopt either.
Taijitu should only partake in defensive or offensive military operations if they serve the regional security of Taijitu. We should not engage in operations that target Raiders who have never attacked us. Doing so only invites potential retribution.
In essence? I'm calling for Taijitu to adopt an Independent foreign policy.
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I'm not sure what the content of the proposal actually is. So whoever proposed it can post a vote themselves and I will sticky it.
Edit: Actually, someone should post an actual proposal and then second it if we are going to vote on anything.
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Firstly, we should wipe our asses with any treaty or agreement that binds us to any defender orgs. And not form any written ties to either side of the spectrum in the future (which had been a tradition of ours until it suddenly wasn't)
Secondly, we should form two groups. A Raider Corps and a Defender corps. The option would be given to participate in either one, or both if one chooses.