Taijitu
Government of Taijitu => The Ecclesia => Proposals and Discussion => Topic started by: Myroria on February 08, 2015, 02:08:17 PM
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Wintreath (http://www.nationstates.net/region=wintreath) is a large user-created region with a population similar to ours, an active role-playing community, a commitment to defender ideals, and a democratic government. I think an embassy with them would serve both of our regions well, and would like to ask the Ecclesia their thoughts on this, and whether I should approach them about it.
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I would fully support relations with Wintreath.
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*shurgs* w/e
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I can't stand Wintreath, but my personal feelings aren't a good reason to prevent an entire region from opening relations with them, so if everyone else is okay with it then I will vote for it.
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I have no objections, though I also don't know much about them either.
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I can't stand Wintreath, but my personal feelings aren't a good reason to prevent an entire region from opening relations with them, so if everyone else is okay with it then I will vote for it.
If you wouldn't mind perhaps expanding on your reservations? As a citizen-legislator, your voice matters as much as anyone else's. I'd rather see robust debate than an unenthusiastic "yes" from the Ecclesia! :)
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oh wow, good job Myroria.
I think they want to set their mark, they've been doing things...i don't care what...
pros and cons? it's more like we don't have a reason to have cons as a region. Unenthusiastic is a good word.
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I can't stand Wintreath, but my personal feelings aren't a good reason to prevent an entire region from opening relations with them, so if everyone else is okay with it then I will vote for it.
If you wouldn't mind perhaps expanding on your reservations? As a citizen-legislator, your voice matters as much as anyone else's. I'd rather see robust debate than an unenthusiastic "yes" from the Ecclesia! :)
I'm also curious what about them you can't stand. If they've done something that might impact relations I'd like to know more about it.
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I can't stand Wintreath, but my personal feelings aren't a good reason to prevent an entire region from opening relations with them, so if everyone else is okay with it then I will vote for it.
If you wouldn't mind perhaps expanding on your reservations? As a citizen-legislator, your voice matters as much as anyone else's. I'd rather see robust debate than an unenthusiastic "yes" from the Ecclesia! :)
Well, part of it is the way they were founded, which really shouldn't be an impediment to relations with Taijitu and is just a personal problem I have with them. Wintermoot went on a power trip in Spiritus, ran someone out of the region, and some people (including me) confronted him about it and he ended up resigning the presidency and his citizenship over it. He then left the region and moved to Wintreath, which he claimed was just his puppet dump. Well, not too long later other citizens of Spiritus started moving to "his puppet dump," so basically Wintreath was founded as a schism from Spiritus and by poaching active citizens from Spiritus. Again, that really has no relevance here, but it does impact my personal feelings toward the region as someone active in Spiritus at the time and someone who cares deeply about Spiritus as one of the people who built the region.
The other issue is the fact that Wintreath harbors Govindia, and this might be something Taijitu will want to consider. Not only do they harbor him, but they generally aren't very respectful of their friends' and allies' desire not to associate with him. There have been disputes about how and when it is appropriate for Govindia to be present during interregional defender operations, for example, with Wintreath at first fairly uncompromising about their insistence that he should be tolerated in the joint defender IRC channel at all times. They've since compromised after more disputes, and Govindia is only permitted in that channel during updates and if he has a specific reason for being there (e.g., a liberation that WHR is cooperating with).
This probably all sounds small. Like I said, I don't think it's a reason for Taijitu not to have relations with them. But I don't like them and the way they interact with other regions, essentially. On the other hand, other regions seem to have had more positive experiences with them.
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(http://www.gonzoville.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/facepalm-Godzilla.jpg)
Ughhhh Govindia...
/me waits for the obligatory appearance of Delfos to defend the indefensible.
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While I am no fan of Govindia, I know Wintreath to be a valuable ally. Personally I don't think Gov should be tolerated at all. I let him into Renegade Islands and he's made me regret that decision. I'm already working on having him banned. (And that's my reward for giving someone a second chance....)
I'm getting off topic here. I support diplomatic relations with Wintreath...I just don't like Gov.
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I support.
Gov is obviously a mess...but other than him, I have gotten along well with the rest of the region.
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I haven't been playing NS in a while, so I have to ask: Who is Govindia and why is his/her reputation so bad?
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I haven't been playing NS in a while, so I have to ask: Who is Govindia and why is his/her reputation so bad?
I don't post this to sound crass, but a simple search of his name on this forum will tell you all you need to know. He is banned from most major regions in NS for being a stalkey weirdo.
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Not crass at all, no problem!
I didn't know he was ever on these forums, so I didn't think to search. I'll start reading through the archives. I assume this linked thread (http://forum.taijitu.org/the-supreme-court/taijitu-v-govindia/) is the most important for me to understand his reputation? Are there any other essential reads?
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Just for the record I recant any support I may have given to Govindia when I was young and stupid.
That being said: I think I concur with most members of the Ecclesia here regarding whether or not to establish relations. While I truly dislike Govindia, I think the political and gameplay advantages to maintaining an embassy with Wintreath outweigh that. I think Taijitu has been pretty good about letting Govindia know he's not welcome here, and I doubt the subject would come up anyway.
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*facepalm*
Anyway, why don't you include the possibility of them expelling Gov for the benefit of our relations?
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*facepalm*
Anyway, why don't you include the possibility of them expelling Gov for the benefit of our relations?
YES!
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While Govindia is a known anticitoyen in Taijitu, I believe so long as they never foist him on us in our dealings we can tolerate them harboring him.
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While Govindia is a known anticitoyen in Taijitu, I believe so long as they never foist him on us in our dealings we can tolerate them harboring him.
cruelty has limits
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Not crass at all, no problem!
I didn't know he was ever on these forums, so I didn't think to search. I'll start reading through the archives. I assume this linked thread (http://forum.taijitu.org/the-supreme-court/taijitu-v-govindia/) is the most important for me to understand his reputation? Are there any other essential reads?
Yeah basically.
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While Govindia is a known anticitoyen in Taijitu, I believe so long as they never foist him on us in our dealings we can tolerate them harboring him.
cruelty has limits
Yes it does. Keeping a stalker, as well as Anticitoyen Première, banned on our forums is not passing that limit.
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We should be able to pursue relations with Wintreath without bringing the creepy shitstorm that is Govindia back into our lives... so long as we make it very clear from the start that our relations are contingent on his not being a part of them.
I would be more than happy to be diplomatic with them but I am utterly unwilling to entertain the notion of Gov getting back on our forums/in our IRC channel. It has been years since we've spoken and he was repeatedly warned that I'll call the police if he contacts me again, yet he persists to this day in pestering third parties to ask if I've changed my mind. There is no way I'm directly dealing with that batshit stalker nonsense again.
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hurray!
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I would like to move for the Ecclesia to vote on whether to propose the construction of embassies with Wintreath, and I would like to, with the Ecclesia's consent, appoint myself Citizen-Ambassador to Wintreath so I can keep a tight eye on the concerns we have regarding Anticitoyen Govindia.
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I would like to move for the Ecclesia to vote on whether to propose the construction of embassies with Wintreath, and I would like to, with the Ecclesia's consent, appoint myself Citizen-Ambassador to Wintreath so I can keep a tight eye on the concerns we have regarding Anticitoyen Govindia.
Seconding the motion to vote, and I think you would make a good Ambassador.
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I would like to move for the Ecclesia to vote on whether to propose the construction of embassies with Wintreath, and I would like to, with the Ecclesia's consent, appoint myself Citizen-Ambassador to Wintreath so I can keep a tight eye on the concerns we have regarding Anticitoyen Govindia.
Seconding the motion to vote, and I think you would make a good Ambassador.
Agreed 100%.
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I will move this to a vote within 2 days if there are no objections.