Taijitu
Government of Taijitu => The Ecclesia => Proposals and Discussion => Topic started by: Myroria on February 25, 2015, 05:50:10 AM
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Do you ever see these NationStates players wandering around our forums? Maybe they're dignitaries. Maybe they're just watching us. Maybe they eventually become citizens, like Cormac, and make up for the mistake of having not been a member of the greatest region in the game.
Oftentimes players, especially those from imperialist regions, will style themselves as "[Name] of House [Name]", say they are "members of House Anumia", or say they are "Cormac, of House Stark". I don't like this crap. This puts them above the perfect egalitarian society we have worked so hard to build. Thus, to further the cause of the Revolution, I propose the following:
A Resolution to Further the Cause of Egalitarianism and the Glorious Revolution by the Outlawing of Noble Houses
1. No citizen of Taijitu shall join, start, or take titles of nobility from a noble house, foreign or otherwise.
2. If a foreigner belonging to a noble house applies for citizenship, it shall be granted. However, the citizen will be referred to as "Citizen [name]", and no reference will be made to their counterrevolutionary pedigree.
3. If a foreigner belonging to a noble house is assigned here as a dignitary, or resides in Taijitu without acquiring citizenship, they shall be referred to by their name only, and no reference will be made to their counterrevolutionary pedigree.
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:taijitu:
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i agree with this
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This doesn't go too far enough, but I'm for it!
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I don't think this act goes far enough. It does not forbid accepting orders of merit from monarchist governments.
On a more serious note, would a law stating how people may refer to someone else violate the Bill of Right's guarantee of free speech?
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I don't see the word guillotine mentioned anywhere in the act, an omission that I think should be addressed.
There is no valid claim to a violation of our principle of free speech. It defines a specific way to refer to citizens by the government [i.e. by the Ecclesia in its official capacity] in the same way that other positions carry specific titles. Presumably a private citizen could call someone by a title without violating the law - it just wouldn't be recognized.
If anything, the (rather tenuous) objection would be to the implicitly sarcastic use of the term Citizen when deliberately replacing one's title, but that's more on the basis of disrespect than free speech. This is not a legitimate claim so long as the term Citizen applies to all citizens of Taijitu, not just those who hold titles elsewhere.
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I have to agree with Wast. Any pretentious prick using a title disrespecting our utmost value of equality should be beheaded, granting that members of the militia can hold summary trial and execution when accompanied by another member of the militia that confirms the violation of equality.
The trial consists on inquiring the suspect to say "Vive l'equalité, Vive la Taijitu" in any way or form and renouncing to any title that he may hold on the spot. Failure to comply results in immediate termination.
Furthermore, an issue to all embassies requires corresponding dignitaries to renounce their titles upon entering service in Taijitu.
Citizen's Militia men are also entitled to acquire, wear or display in public any part or total of the executed body. This is to prevent any prosecution towards our Militia for parading through Taijitu's streets with the enemies' heads on their pikes.
As immortalized on these digital photos:
(https://softmorningcity.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/heads_on_pikes.jpg)
(http://www.executedtoday.com/images/Berthier.jpg)
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Damn. Now I want a noble title...
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I don't see the word guillotine mentioned anywhere in the act, an omission that I think should be addressed.
There is no valid claim to a violation of our principle of free speech. It defines a specific way to refer to citizens by the government [i.e. by the Ecclesia in its official capacity] in the same way that other positions carry specific titles. Presumably a private citizen could call someone by a title without violating the law - it just wouldn't be recognized.
Citizen Wast is correct, but if it would make it clearer for me to specify this in our law I would gladly do so.
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/me approves. greatly.
No more people talking about "House Nasad" ... >____> NS families <____<
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Damn. Now I want a noble title...
Boooooo hiiisss traitor baby!
I don't see the word guillotine mentioned anywhere in the act, an omission that I think should be addressed.
>||ō|~o
There is no valid claim to a violation of our principle of free speech. It defines a specific way to refer to citizens by the government [i.e. by the Ecclesia in its official capacity] in the same way that other positions carry specific titles. Presumably a private citizen could call someone by a title without violating the law - it just wouldn't be recognized.
If anything, the (rather tenuous) objection would be to the implicitly sarcastic use of the term Citizen when deliberately replacing one's title, but that's more on the basis of disrespect than free speech. This is not a legitimate claim so long as the term Citizen applies to all citizens of Taijitu, not just those who hold titles elsewhere.
I can buy that.
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I like the idea of the government not recognizing these titles, but I think with the language we're using in the bill we're altogether banning people from calling each other what they want like what Gulliver was saying. A private citizen asking to be called "Sir John of House Pretentious" would be against the law in its current form because of the first clause. Asking to be called "Sir John of House Pretentious" can arguably be called "...join[ing], start[ing], or tak[ing] titles of nobility from a noble house..."
For that reason I say that we merely not acknowledge "houses of nobility" as opposed to banning citizens from joining them.
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I like the idea of the government not recognizing these titles, but I think with the language we're using in the bill we're altogether banning people from calling each other what they want like what Gulliver was saying. A private citizen asking to be called "Sir John of House Pretentious" would be against the law in its current form because of the first clause. Asking to be called "Sir John of House Pretentious" can arguably be called "...join[ing], start[ing], or tak[ing] titles of nobility from a noble house..."
For that reason I say that we merely not acknowledge "houses of nobility" as opposed to banning citizens from joining them.
If we limit free speech by such measures I vow to start calling myself and others by nothing but noble titles.
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But its counter-revolutionary! +1
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arson sounds like a better idea.
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But its so much work. Simple pulling of a lever and OFF with their heads! +1
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Please cease this spamming. The Ecclesia is meant for valuable discourse, not keeping score.
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Just trying to prove a point.
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spam spam spam spam
Blah blah blah, Noble Seals suck didn't you know
blah blah blah
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I like the idea of the government not recognizing these titles, but I think with the language we're using in the bill we're altogether banning people from calling each other what they want like what Gulliver was saying. A private citizen asking to be called "Sir John of House Pretentious" would be against the law in its current form because of the first clause. Asking to be called "Sir John of House Pretentious" can arguably be called "...join[ing], start[ing], or tak[ing] titles of nobility from a noble house..."
For that reason I say that we merely not acknowledge "houses of nobility" as opposed to banning citizens from joining them.
If we limit free speech by such measures I vow to start calling myself and others by nothing but noble titles.
Your absence of froth worries me.
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A Resolution to Further the Cause of Egalitarianism and the Glorious Revolution by the Outlawing of Noble Houses
1. No citizen of Taijitu shall join, start, or take titles of nobility from a noble house, foreign or otherwise.
2. If a foreigner belonging to a noble house applies for citizenship, it shall be granted. However, the citizen will be referred to by the government of Taijitu, when acting in an official capacity, as "Citizen [name]", and no reference will be made to their counterrevolutionary pedigree.
3. If a foreigner belonging to a noble house is assigned here as a dignitary, or resides in Taijitu without acquiring citizenship, they shall be referred to by the government of Taijitu, when acting in an official capacity, by their name only, and no reference will be made to their counterrevolutionary pedigree.
Wasn't sure what to do about clause 1.
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Perhaps this could all be simplified as just "The Goverment of Taijitu will not recognize houses and titles of nobility."
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Perhaps this could all be simplified as just "The Goverment of Taijitu will not recognize houses and titles of nobility."
I like this idea. :P
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If Myroria would prefer to stick with the longer form -- it seems odd to just legislate a single sentence -- here's a suggestion for the first clause:
"1. The government of Taijitu, when acting in an official capacity, will not recognize any noble house or any title therefrom derived, foreign or otherwise."
A suggestion for a fourth clause:
"4. Citizens and foreign residents are encouraged, but not required, to avoid personal use of noble names or titles in Taijitu, as a demonstration of respect for the egalitarian principles of the Glorious Revolution."
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I like the idea of the government not recognizing these titles, but I think with the language we're using in the bill we're altogether banning people from calling each other what they want like what Gulliver was saying. A private citizen asking to be called "Sir John of House Pretentious" would be against the law in its current form because of the first clause. Asking to be called "Sir John of House Pretentious" can arguably be called "...join[ing], start[ing], or tak[ing] titles of nobility from a noble house..."
For that reason I say that we merely not acknowledge "houses of nobility" as opposed to banning citizens from joining them.
If we limit free speech by such measures I vow to start calling myself and others by nothing but noble titles.
Your absence of froth worries me.
Damn I thought it quite frothy :P
If Myroria would prefer to stick with the longer form -- it seems odd to just legislate a single sentence -- here's a suggestion for the first clause:
"1. The government of Taijitu, when acting in an official capacity, will not recognize any noble house or any title therefrom derived, foreign or otherwise."
A suggestion for a fourth clause:
"4. Citizens and foreign residents are encouraged, but not required, to avoid personal use of noble names or titles in Taijitu, as a demonstration of respect for the egalitarian principles of the Glorious Revolution."
Already dreaming up wonderful solutions Initiator :) I would certainly approve such.
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Sounds better - this is the meaning I had attributed to the original text of this proposal (likely incorrectly :P )
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I like that solution as well.
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Myroria's fix and Cormac's idea fix all the freedom of speech issues I had with this. Sounds great to me!
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Still doesn't go too far enough :P
(I kid)
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Myroria's fix and Cormac's idea fix all the freedom of speech issues I had with this. Sounds great to me!
Agreed! I move that we bring the following to a vote.
A Resolution to Further the Cause of Egalitarianism and the Glorious Revolution by the Outlawing of Noble Houses
1. The government of Taijitu, when acting in an official capacity, will not recognize any noble house or any title therefrom derived, foreign or otherwise.
2. If a foreigner belonging to a noble house applies for citizenship, it shall be granted. However, the citizen will be referred to by the government of Taijitu, when acting in an official capacity, as "Citizen [name]", and no reference will be made to their counterrevolutionary pedigree.
3. If a foreigner belonging to a noble house is assigned here as a dignitary, or resides in Taijitu without acquiring citizenship, they shall be referred to by the government of Taijitu, when acting in an official capacity, by their name only, and no reference will be made to their counterrevolutionary pedigree.
4. Citizens and foreign residents are encouraged, but not required, to avoid personal use of noble names or titles in Taijitu, as a demonstration of respect for the egalitarian principles of the Glorious Revolution.
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Some proposed minor style tweaks to make tense and auxiliary verbs consistent and remove (what I think is) redundant language:
1. The government of Taijitu, when acting in an official capacity, will not recognize any noble house or [st]any[/st] title [st]therefrom derived, foreign or otherwise[/st].
2. If a foreigner belonging to a noble house applies for citizenship, it [st]shall[/st] [in]will[/in] be granted. However, the citizen will be referred to by the government of Taijitu, when acting in an official capacity, as "Citizen [name]", and no reference will be made to their counterrevolutionary pedigree.
3. If a foreigner belonging to a noble house is assigned here as a dignitary, or resides in Taijitu without acquiring citizenship, they [st]shall[/st] [in]will[/in] be referred to by the government of Taijitu, when acting in an official capacity, by their name only, and no reference will be made to their counterrevolutionary pedigree.
4. Citizens and foreign residents [st]are[/st] [in]will be[/in] encouraged[st], but not required,[/st] to avoid personal use of noble names or titles in Taijitu, as a demonstration of respect for the egalitarian principles of the Glorious Revolution.
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Well done sir. This is much better.
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Wow, this became so serious and real. I too support Gulliver's edition.
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Are we trying to make "Ecclesia" serious (or Ecclesia material) something that is not as effective as blunt beheading or arson RP?
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Some proposed minor style tweaks to make tense and auxiliary verbs consistent and remove (what I think is) redundant language:
1. The government of Taijitu, when acting in an official capacity, will not recognize any noble house or any title therefrom derived, foreign or otherwise.
2. If a foreigner belonging to a noble house applies for citizenship, it shall will be granted. However, the citizen will be referred to by the government of Taijitu, when acting in an official capacity, as "Citizen [name]", and no reference will be made to their counterrevolutionary pedigree.
3. If a foreigner belonging to a noble house is assigned here as a dignitary, or resides in Taijitu without acquiring citizenship, they shall will be referred to by the government of Taijitu, when acting in an official capacity, by their name only, and no reference will be made to their counterrevolutionary pedigree.
4. Citizens and foreign residents are will be encouraged, but not required, to avoid personal use of noble names or titles in Taijitu, as a demonstration of respect for the egalitarian principles of the Glorious Revolution.
Very nice! I motion for a vote.
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Sounds good - seconded
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Second.
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I'll move this to vote in two days.
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The Noble Houses Act is now at vote here (http://forum.taijitu.org/legislative-and-treaty-votes/noble-houses-act/)!