Let's deal with the inactivity!

[Delfos]

Awesomesaucer, I don't know if you're serious about a second revolution or whatever, but I am not on board for installing a new government - especially if the point is to generate activity.  Like Wast alluded to earlier, you'll get a spike in interest via controversy, but I think Taijitu has had plenty of revolutions.  Why don't we work on making our existing government better?  Why not fine tune instead of destroy and rebuild?

I tried this in 2012, and it definitely did not work.

ipsis verbis

[Khem]

All I want is a less powerful Liaison position, and more social outreach.  That's really all.

Again, in what way does this position have too much power?

[AwesomeSaucer]

All I want is a less powerful Liaison position, and more social outreach.  That's really all.

Again, in what way does this position have too much power?

I think I've said this already once, and I can say it again.

I don't think the Liaison should be able to introduce and enact any social programs, ideas, or concepts without some form of approval from the Ecclesia.  For example, I don't think that Orri's Citizen-Guide program should have been enacted without a vote of some kind.

[Khem]

If you wanted the exact legal definitions of that position are below. As can be seen from actually reading this the only actual power granted is to appoint Citizen-Guides, hell the social program aspect is a responsibility not even a power.

(click to show/hide)

1. Qualifications and Election
1. Any citizen of Taijitu may stand for election to the office of Citizen-Liaison.
2. An election for Citizen-Citizen-Liaison will be held when three months have passed since the last election, the Ecclesia chooses to hold an election by a majority vote, or the office of Citizen-Liaison is vacant.
3. No person may serve as Citizen-Liaison for more than two consecutive terms.
4. The Ecclesia may remove the Citizen-Liaison by a majority vote.

2. Powers and Responsibilities
1. The Citizen-Liaison will be responsible for managing Taijitu's community and community activity.
2. The Citizen-Liaison will be responsible for updating and maintaining the community guides.
3. The Citizen-Liaison will be responsible for establishing and running cultural events in the interest of community building.
4. The Citizen-Liaison will be responsible for welcoming new members to the forum, answering their questions and aid in their incorporation into the community.

3. Citizen-Guides
1. The Citizen-Liaison may appoint any number of citizen-guides to assist them in their powers, responsibilities, aid in community management and all associated activities.
2. The Citizen-Liaison may dismiss citizen-guides at any time.
3. The Ecclesia may remove any citizen-guide by a majority vote.

[Lindisfarne]

1) We made the ecclesia so we didn't need a delegate to promote activity. I think we all enjoy the delegate doing absolutely nothing but clerical jobs that aren't that important anyway
2) A vice delegate? No we have enough positions to fill
3) Why is it every time we're a little inactive people want to blame the ones in charge. The blame is on everyone! Especially when we're a direct democracy and we have no direct leader(s). Quit fussing over who is to blame and think about why you yourself weren't doing enough. If the reason was 'nobody else is posting' then you're a fucking mongrel
4) As I said in the other thread, we need native taijituans back in taijitu, stop giving so many shits about other regions especially TNP, and I don't give a shit if you're emperor of buttplugs there

Agreed! Especially #3.

[bigbaldben]

Awesomesaucer, I don't know if you're serious about a second revolution or whatever, but I am not on board for installing a new government - especially if the point is to generate activity.  Like Wast alluded to earlier, you'll get a spike in interest via controversy, but I think Taijitu has had plenty of revolutions.  Why don't we work on making our existing government better?  Why not fine tune instead of destroy and rebuild?

I tried this in 2012, and it definitely did not work.

Yeah, I think I remember reading some of that in the archives, which helped me form my opinion.  Plus, what Wast said.

[Red Mones]

3) Why is it every time we're a little inactive people want to blame the ones in charge.

I guess it's because the veterans are always in power, and the veterans are always the ones to keep things active. Because what bbb said:

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about.  People come here, introduce themselves, then apparently don't find anything worth sticking around for.  How do we get people to stick around?  I don't know the answer.

[Funkadelia]

If the older members are "the ones to keep things active," then the logical conclusion is that the older members would be the only ones doing anything at all. I don't think it's right for people to wash their hands of a situation by absolving themselves of responsibility.

This is a community, and we are going to make a community effort to improve things, like we have so many times in the past.

[Dyr Nasad]

3) Why is it every time we're a little inactive people want to blame the ones in charge.

I guess it's because the veterans are always in power, and the veterans are always the ones to keep things active. Because what bbb said:

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about.  People come here, introduce themselves, then apparently don't find anything worth sticking around for.  How do we get people to stick around?  I don't know the answer.

I am afraid that you lost me. I think we have covered why the fossils are still holding office (few others want to do anything, etc). And how are BBB's words related to Oz's question?

[St Oz]

3) Why is it every time we're a little inactive people want to blame the ones in charge.

I guess it's because the veterans are always in power, and the veterans are always the ones to keep things active. Because what bbb said:

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about.  People come here, introduce themselves, then apparently don't find anything worth sticking around for.  How do we get people to stick around?  I don't know the answer.

There is relatively no power to be had in taijitu, only positions that are more of a clerical nature or formality than anything.

[bigbaldben]

3) Why is it every time we're a little inactive people want to blame the ones in charge.

I guess it's because the veterans are always in power, and the veterans are always the ones to keep things active. Because what bbb said:

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about.  People come here, introduce themselves, then apparently don't find anything worth sticking around for.  How do we get people to stick around?  I don't know the answer.

There is relatively no power to be had in taijitu, only positions that are more of a clerical nature or formality than anything.

I wasn't sure what I said matched with the original question either.  But I like being quoted so I'm not going to say anything. 

More to the point, as a newer person, I deferred to the "fossils" and respectfully - tentatively - approached with new ideas.  What I've noticed is a great surge in fossil postings when any idea or movement shows up on the forums, and usually with great interest.

<gets up on soapbox>

If I may be so bold, I think people like Awesomesaucer (and sometimes me) take that as a big red stop sign and can get discouraged, feeling as if the fossils are showing up only to impede progress.  But as I look back on the couple instances where we have had "fossil re-engagement," I don't see anyone actually throwing up a stop sign to ideas (though AS got a stop sign once, who of us hasn't thrown the all-stop at AS?!?  ). 

I think now after a while here and with these recent convos -- that the fossils re-engage because they love this place and want it to remain a place they know and love, and don't want anything bad to happen to it.  So when things are suggested, they perk up and dive in, because regardless of who is here, Taijitu is and always will be their home.  I would do the same.

And now I have actually grown to like it - knowing that if I come up with an idea, they'll make time to come check it out and give feedback.  In that way, we are pretty luck to have a cadre of fossils around, because that sure as hell beats working up an idea and getting absolute CRICKETS.

I think if the newbies - me, AwesomeSaucer, Orristania and others - can understand that, we can move forward with our ideas freely, and probably more importantly encourage newer folks to engage and not "fear the fossils" who really just have the best interests of Taijitu - a place most of them have put more time into than we have yet - at heart.

<gets down from soapbox>

Please, please correct me if I'm wrong there, because that's the attitude I'm going forward with! 

[Allama]

If I may be so bold, I think people like Awesomesaucer (and sometimes me) take that as a big red stop sign and can get discouraged, feeling as if the fossils are showing up only to impede progress.  But as I look back on the couple instances where we have had "fossil re-engagement," I don't see anyone actually throwing up a stop sign to ideas (though AS got a stop sign once, who of us hasn't thrown the all-stop at AS?!?  ). 

I think now after a while here and with these recent convos -- that the fossils re-engage because they love this place and want it to remain a place they know and love, and don't want anything bad to happen to it.  So when things are suggested, they perk up and dive in, because regardless of who is here, Taijitu is and always will be their home.  I would do the same.

Very much this, yes! I didn't realize re-engagement of older users was being perceived as any kind of "stop" signal to newer Taijis. From my point of view it was encouraging, like, "Oooh, it's good to see some ideas get thrown around, let's each put in our 2 cents, new members and old, so the poster knows we actually care when they bring up new ideas." And because we love this region and it matters to us what happens here, of course.

So... basically exactly what you said.

When wording responses in the future I'll take care to check for anything that could come across as discouraging where I only intend to debate the merits of some proposal or other. It would be a shame for people to think we're running them out of town when we really just want to participate in their discussions.

Activity is good, especially when new people jump right in and get involved!

[Delfos]

So eloquently put, I agree that fossils fear change in general, and they keep saying...oh but you can do everything you want because DEMOCRACY! Well I've seen this "democracy" resurrect inactive players just to impede "new" people to take power, right after the election all those resurrected returned to the grave. So many skeletons in the closet...just so many...

But "water under the bridge", maybe they have changed, I have full confidence on you three to make a great project, don't fear the fossils, they fear you more than you fear them.



I leave you with some old posters, maybe they can reignite the passion of change:

IMAGINE

You, you may say I’m a dreamer, but I’m not the only one. I hope today you’ll join us, and Taijitu will be as one.

We know people want change, we shall join together and make Taijitu a more democratic and participative place for everyone, destroying all barriers for participation in our politics, a government governed by the People.

People always have been the foolish victims of deception and self-deception in politics, and they always will be, until they have learned to seek out the interests of some class or other behind all moral, religious, political and social phrases, declarations and promises.

The sort-of-Inactive Founders and their groups incite the active people in the endeavor of trying to govern without proper conditions to keep them powerless. Political conscious people, realizing that the break-down of all the autocratic barriers by the Founders is inevitable and progressive, are trying to help to enlighten and organize their fellow People of Taijitu.

Victory will belong only to those who have faith in the people, those who are immersed in the life-giving spring of popular creativity.

[AwesomeSaucer]

ERROR

[AwesomeSaucer]

If you wanted the exact legal definitions of that position are below. As can be seen from actually reading this the only actual power granted is to appoint Citizen-Guides, hell the social program aspect is a responsibility not even a power.

(click to show/hide)

1. Qualifications and Election
1. Any citizen of Taijitu may stand for election to the office of Citizen-Liaison.
2. An election for Citizen-Citizen-Liaison will be held when three months have passed since the last election, the Ecclesia chooses to hold an election by a majority vote, or the office of Citizen-Liaison is vacant.
3. No person may serve as Citizen-Liaison for more than two consecutive terms.
4. The Ecclesia may remove the Citizen-Liaison by a majority vote.

2. Powers and Responsibilities
1. The Citizen-Liaison will be responsible for managing Taijitu's community and community activity.
2. The Citizen-Liaison will be responsible for updating and maintaining the community guides.
3. The Citizen-Liaison will be responsible for establishing and running cultural events in the interest of community building.
4. The Citizen-Liaison will be responsible for welcoming new members to the forum, answering their questions and aid in their incorporation into the community.

3. Citizen-Guides
1. The Citizen-Liaison may appoint any number of citizen-guides to assist them in their powers, responsibilities, aid in community management and all associated activities.
2. The Citizen-Liaison may dismiss citizen-guides at any time.
3. The Ecclesia may remove any citizen-guide by a majority vote.

Yes, why don't we truly revert to this definition of Liaison?  Nowhere here does it say that you can run on a platform; only ideas!