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Author Topic: Ecclesia Improvement Act [Discussion]  (Read 23050 times)

Offline Myroria

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Re: Ecclesia Improvement Act [Discussion]
« Reply #60 on: November 29, 2015, 05:14:29 AM »
Quote from: OT
Myro said specifically at the beginning of the glorious revolution that he did not want to be involved in GP so he could focus on writing and RP, he went right into GP and now is feeling like hes been targeted, its not him, he wasn't targeted, he did exactly what he said he didn't want to, and its getting to him.  I think GP causes a lot of stress because of how it is, I'd like to see Myro return, maybe even you, if you stop being so melodramatic, every one here likes you, you just think they don't.

I would like to address this specifically because I believe that, unless you have come into possession of a crystal ball, you do not have access to my thoughts.

Despite your vague and unsubstantiated claims that participating in interregional politics and defending is "getting to me", I can assure you that I have no trouble sleeping at night or even concern myself with anything relating to NationStates for most of the day. Generally, the things that do concern me in NationStates are my duties as Vice Delegate of the North Pacific - that is, performing security checks on prospective citizens, maintaining my endorsement count, and being available to the Delegate and Cabinet for consultation - and writing in The North Pacific's RP community. In fact, I find myself spending several hours a week writing rather than two or three hours a month in Taijitu.

The writing I do do in TNP feels more fulfilling for my creative impulses and in many cases I find myself striving to become as good as some of the other writers there, as hard as the idea of good writers in TNP is to believe for some people.

Whatever "stress" I feel from what is, in the end, a browser game, comes from looking at this forum and seeing people calling each other "bitches", "whiny", or any of the other words I see that are so well-suited to reasonable debate. There is a line between good-natured ribbing and polemicism. I get more than my fair share of stress from the rigors of daily life, so why would I stay here and subject myself to it some more? NS is, as I said, a browser game and I play it to have fun and interact with a friendly community, not to be insulted.



I suppose to remain on-topic I will share my thoughts about this proposed change. Speaking of polemicism:
  • I think the idea bandied around that because there is some sort of "invisible oligarchy" we should institute a real one is the height of stupidity. Supporters of this bill are gladly turning away from a system where they have a say to enter one where that say is restricted or even eliminated, for no reason other than that it feels "honest". This is baffling to me, but I suppose Taijitu has jumped headfirst into stupider things.
  • "Many people agree with us and are not saying anything" sounds a lot like an attempt to portray a position as having more support than it does.
  • Essentially every successful democratic region is moving away from contrived, unnecessary representative democracy, not towards it. But I suppose that's a reason to go the other way, isn't it?
  • I remember the golden days of Taijitu's Senate, when we voted on how to decide the founder issues.
  • If the Militia Act is scrapped there will be valid doubts about whether Taijitu is capable of meeting its treaty obligations.
  • Taijitu has a tendency to wander from government type to government type, trying to legislate itself into activity and create a successful region from thin air. How will this be different? Please, go into detail, and avoid the word "synergise".
  • To paraphrase someone I once considered Taijitu's only true revolutionary: yes, let's embrace the junta.
"I assure you -- I will be quite content to be a mere mortal again, dedicated to my own amusements."

Offline Gulliver

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Re: Ecclesia Improvement Act [Discussion]
« Reply #61 on: November 29, 2015, 05:19:57 AM »
Quote from: Sovereign Dixie
I don't disagree with that, and that's essentially what I think those of us currently backing this proposal would have in mind. Ultimately its just a matter of terminology used in description but at the end of it the functionality is more or less the same.
If the open legislature is not a problem (which contradicts my possibly mistake impression so far that you want a representative democracy), we already have that and should be considering the executive side of the equation. We can easily replace the current executive officer laws and replace them with a more consolidated, effective system without burning everything to the ground. It sounds like you want what we already have. So why are we debating repealing it all and replacing it with nothing.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2015, 05:33:20 AM by Gulliver »

Offline Prydania

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Re: Ecclesia Improvement Act [Discussion]
« Reply #62 on: November 29, 2015, 05:22:05 AM »
Quote from: Sovereign Dixie
I don't disagree with that, and that's essentially what I think those of us currently backing this proposal would have in mind. Ultimately its just a matter of terminology used in description but at the end of it the functionality is more or less the same.
If the open legislature is not a problem (which contradicts my possibly mistake impression so far that you want a representative democracy), we already have that and should be considering the executive side of the equation. We can easily replace the current executive officer laws and replace them with a more consolidated, effective system without burning everything to the ground.
I'm in favour of the original Taijitu Senate. Which you claim was a direct democracy. And I called a representative democracy.
So is it possible it's the best of both worlds, and thus a compromise?

Offline Gulliver

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Re: Ecclesia Improvement Act [Discussion]
« Reply #63 on: November 29, 2015, 05:29:34 AM »
Quote from: Sovereign Dixie
I don't disagree with that, and that's essentially what I think those of us currently backing this proposal would have in mind. Ultimately its just a matter of terminology used in description but at the end of it the functionality is more or less the same.
If the open legislature is not a problem (which contradicts my possibly mistake impression so far that you want a representative democracy), we already have that and should be considering the executive side of the equation. We can easily replace the current executive officer laws and replace them with a more consolidated, effective system without burning everything to the ground.
I'm in favour of the original Taijitu Senate. Which you claim was a direct democracy. And I called a representative democracy.
So is it possible it's the best of both worlds, and thus a compromise?
If we want the same thing, then why this proposal to tear everything down? We already have a direct legislature, we could easily add an additional step to getting into it if we think it would be beneficial.

Offline Prydania

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Re: Ecclesia Improvement Act [Discussion]
« Reply #64 on: November 29, 2015, 05:36:20 AM »
The writing I do do in TNP feels more fulfilling for my creative impulses and in many cases I find myself striving to become as good as some of the other writers there, as hard as the idea of good writers in TNP is to believe for some people.
Well Myro, I'm sorry this region doesn't provide the stimulating experience you want. I had hoped to provide for a more active RP experience, before I saw my friends feeling as if the current system was either unfair or not working.

Though if RP in TNP is better for you? Who am I to say you shouldn't take your talents (considerable talents, I may add) there? I thought you made a point of saying you would do just that?

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Whatever "stress" I feel from what is, in the end, a browser game, comes from looking at this forum and seeing people calling each other "bitches", "whiny", or any of the other words I see that are so well-suited to reasonable debate. There is a line between good-natured ribbing and polemicism. I get more than my fair share of stress from the rigors of daily life, so why would I stay here and subject myself to it some more?
I understand entirely, though I do feel you may have created a degree of this in your own head. I've NEVER had an issue with you. Not once. I know you've spoken about how you think SD isn't friendly to you before, and I can assure you he's never had a problem with you until he started feeling the cold shoulder on your end.

Ultimately I think some giant regional get-together, be it here, on Skpe, or IRC is needed to clear a lot of the air in a reasoned, mature fashion. That's an entirely separate discussion though. And not one that needs to be addressed via legislation.

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I think the idea bandied around that because there is some sort of "invisible oligarchy" we should institute a real one is the height of stupidity. Supporters of this bill are gladly turning away from a system where they have a say to enter one where that say is restricted or even eliminated, for no reason other than that it feels "honest". This is baffling to me, but I suppose Taijitu has jumped headfirst into stupider things.
There are people here who feel the current system, despite its egalitarian nature, is restricting.
Wait, you said something about that...

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"Many people agree with us and are not saying anything" sounds a lot like an attempt to portray a position as having more support than it does.
Ask Elu privately about this. I did my best to illuminate the subject without betraying privacy. Needless to say? If you think this is just a few people who don't like you? It's nothing of the sort. Hell, I support this proposal. And I've always liked you as a poster and RPer, even if I've sensed the feeling hasn't always been mutual.

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Essentially every successful democratic region is moving away from contrived, unnecessary representative democracy, not towards it. But I suppose that's a reason to go the other way, isn't it?
My preference would be to return to the system used for the original Taijitu Senate. Which is either representative democracy or direct democracy. Depending on who you ask.

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If the Militia Act is scrapped there will be valid doubts about whether Taijitu is capable of meeting its treaty obligations.
You assume something akin to, but not an exact copy of, the militia act can't be passed by whatever new government emerges from this.
From my own perspective though? We need to stop worrying about what TNP thinks. I sometimes feel as if they're Great Britain to our India circa 1890.

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Taijitu has a tendency to wander from government type to government type, trying to legislate itself into activity and create a successful region from thin air. How will this be different? Please, go into detail, and avoid the word "synergise".
I really don't want you gone Myro. I really don't, because I feel your RP talents alone make you a regional asset. Plus I've known you for a really long time, and have grown fond of you.
That being said? You did say you were gone. So...why does it matter what Taijitu does re: its own internal affairs?

Quote
To paraphrase someone I once considered Taijitu's only true revolutionary: yes, let's embrace the junta.
Fun fact. The Glorious Revolution only exists because of the last Junta. You're welcome.

Offline Prydania

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Re: Ecclesia Improvement Act [Discussion]
« Reply #65 on: November 29, 2015, 05:38:38 AM »
Quote from: Sovereign Dixie
I don't disagree with that, and that's essentially what I think those of us currently backing this proposal would have in mind. Ultimately its just a matter of terminology used in description but at the end of it the functionality is more or less the same.
If the open legislature is not a problem (which contradicts my possibly mistake impression so far that you want a representative democracy), we already have that and should be considering the executive side of the equation. We can easily replace the current executive officer laws and replace them with a more consolidated, effective system without burning everything to the ground.
I'm in favour of the original Taijitu Senate. Which you claim was a direct democracy. And I called a representative democracy.
So is it possible it's the best of both worlds, and thus a compromise?
If we want the same thing, then why this proposal to tear everything down? We already have a direct legislature, we could easily add an additional step to getting into it if we think it would be beneficial.
Well I very much doubt you or Elu would have been up for that had this been a "let's reform the Ecclesia along the lines of the First Taijitu Senate Act" proposal. Maybe threatening to tear it all down (in a perfectly legal manner ;) ) is what it took to make certain people realise that their way of doing things wasn't working.

Offline Gulliver

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Re: Ecclesia Improvement Act [Discussion]
« Reply #66 on: November 29, 2015, 05:41:55 AM »
Quote from: Prydania
There are people here who feel the current system, despite its egalitarian nature, is restricting.
Wait, you said something about that...
You keep saying that "some people feel" or similar without ever naming concrete names or concrete grievances about how the current system is "restrictive". Some unknown people might feel bad about something is not the basis for repealing an entire legal system.

Quote from: Prydania
You assume something akin to, but not an exact copy of, the militia act can't be passed by whatever new government emerges from this.
From my own perspective though? We need to stop worrying about what TNP thinks. I sometimes feel as if they're Great Britain to our India circa 1890.
What specific issues do you have with the current Militia? This relates the point above. Instead of identifying a concrete issue and tailoring legislation to fix it, we're discussing just repealing everything with no concrete replacement to actually address any of the unmentioned concerns.

Also, we have treaty obligations with plenty of regions other than TNP.

Offline Sovereign Dixie

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Re: Ecclesia Improvement Act [Discussion]
« Reply #67 on: November 29, 2015, 05:46:27 AM »

I suppose to remain on-topic I will share my thoughts about this proposed change. Speaking of polemicism:
  • I think the idea bandied around that because there is some sort of "invisible oligarchy" we should institute a real one is the height of stupidity. Supporters of this bill are gladly turning away from a system where they have a say to enter one where that say is restricted or even eliminated, for no reason other than that it feels "honest". This is baffling to me, but I suppose Taijitu has jumped headfirst into stupider things.
  • "Many people agree with us and are not saying anything" sounds a lot like an attempt to portray a position as having more support than it does.
  • Essentially every successful democratic region is moving away from contrived, unnecessary representative democracy, not towards it. But I suppose that's a reason to go the other way, isn't it?
  • I remember the golden days of Taijitu's Senate, when we voted on how to decide the founder issues.
  • If the Militia Act is scrapped there will be valid doubts about whether Taijitu is capable of meeting its treaty obligations.
  • Taijitu has a tendency to wander from government type to government type, trying to legislate itself into activity and create a successful region from thin air. How will this be different? Please, go into detail, and avoid the word "synergise".
  • To paraphrase someone I once considered Taijitu's only true revolutionary: yes, let's embrace the junta.

No one has spoken of eliminating anyone's say. In fact all of us supporting this bill are in favour of a fully democratic legislature. The only "representative democracy" aspect of it is that we've kicked around the idea of bringing back the "question period" for shiggles. We have no issue with a democratic legislature, we simply do not think it should be the end-all-be-all ultimate power of the region. We believe that there should be a system of checks and balances.

As for the Militia... *shrugs* I really don't care one way or the other about that at this time. So no harm in keeping it running but to be honest with you, I really don't think it would be capable of fuck all at the moment.  Hence me not really caring much.

How would this be different? Well, we plan to maximize our core competencies by shifting the paradigm to one focused on leveraged customer based solutions packages. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EY6YMP7iUzE



Offline Gulliver

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Re: Ecclesia Improvement Act [Discussion]
« Reply #68 on: November 29, 2015, 05:50:06 AM »
Quote from: Prydania
Well I very much doubt you or Elu would have been up for that had this been a "let's reform the Ecclesia along the lines of the First Taijitu Senate Act" proposal. Maybe threatening to tear it all down (in a perfectly legal manner ;) ) is what it took to make certain people realise that their way of doing things wasn't working.
All it's done is raise the stakes of the debate needlessly high. And it certainly hasn't done anything to make me realize how things aren't working, because no specific issues are being identified, everything is just being wiped out for the sake of it. And I certainly know I feel more hostile to this than I would to a more concrete reform proposal.

Offline Myroria

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Re: Ecclesia Improvement Act [Discussion]
« Reply #69 on: November 29, 2015, 05:58:36 AM »
Quote
There are people here who feel the current system, despite its egalitarian nature, is restricting.
Wait, you said something about that...

A lot of people here like the current system. Some people even say it works well.

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Ask Elu privately about this. I did my best to illuminate the subject without betraying privacy. Needless to say? If you think this is just a few people who don't like you? It's nothing of the sort. Hell, I support this proposal. And I've always liked you as a poster and RPer, even if I've sensed the feeling hasn't always been mutual.

I didn't say there were hidden people who disliked me. I said that there are people not commenting who you say agree with you, but you are not citing this.

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My preference would be to return to the system used for the original Taijitu Senate. Which is either representative democracy or direct democracy. Depending on who you ask.

You might want to get this straight before voting to get rid of the current system.

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You assume something akin to, but not an exact copy of, the militia act can't be passed by whatever new government emerges from this.
From my own perspective though? We need to stop worrying about what TNP thinks. I sometimes feel as if they're Great Britain to our India circa 1890.

I have every faith a new government could replace the Militia Act, but this proposal is not about instituting a new government. It is about dissolving the current one. Gulliver answered the other point succinctly enough.

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Fun fact. The Glorious Revolution only exists because of the last Junta. You're welcome.

I suppose you telepathically instructed everyone to get Taijitu to 500 nations while you were away - doing what again?



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No one has spoken of eliminating anyone's say. In fact all of us supporting this bill are in favour of a fully democratic legislature. The only "representative democracy" aspect of it is that we've kicked around the idea of bringing back the "question period" for shiggles. We have no issue with a democratic legislature, we simply do not think it should be the end-all-be-all ultimate power of the region. We believe that there should be a system of checks and balances.

As for the Militia... *shrugs* I really don't care one way or the other about that at this time. So no harm in keeping it running but to be honest with you, I really don't think it would be capable of fuck all at the moment.  Hence me not really caring much.

We disagree perhaps fundamentally, but I appreciate your honesty. Thank you for answering my points.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2015, 06:02:34 AM by Myroria »
"I assure you -- I will be quite content to be a mere mortal again, dedicated to my own amusements."

Offline Prydania

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Re: Ecclesia Improvement Act [Discussion]
« Reply #70 on: November 29, 2015, 06:14:28 AM »
A lot of people here like the current system. Some people even say it works well.
I don't doubt it. People like systems that give them everything they've ever wanted.

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I didn't say there were hidden people who disliked me. I said that there are people not commenting who you say agree with you, but you are not citing this.
Again, ask Elu about what I mean when I say "a lot of people don't like the system."

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Quote
My preference would be to return to the system used for the original Taijitu Senate. Which is either representative democracy or direct democracy. Depending on who you ask.

You might want to get this straight before voting to get rid of the current system.
The proposal calls for what...a constitutional convention? I suppose that will be where we hammer out the specifics after getting rid of this current quagmire.

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I have every faith a new government could replace the Militia Act, but this proposal is not about instituting a new government. It is about dissolving the current one.
So a new one can be formed.

Quote from: Prydania
There are people here who feel the current system, despite its egalitarian nature, is restricting.
Wait, you said something about that...
You keep saying that "some people feel" or similar without ever naming concrete names or concrete grievances about how the current system is "restrictive". Some unknown people might feel bad about something is not the basis for repealing an entire legal system.
Ask Elu.

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What specific issues do you have with the current Militia?
Sovereigntism. And the idea that we ought to go on the offensive against folks who have never threatened Taijitu.

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Also, we have treaty obligations with plenty of regions other than TNP.
"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."

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Quote
Fun fact. The Glorious Revolution only exists because of the last Junta. You're welcome.

I suppose you telepathically instructed everyone to get Taijitu to 500 nations while you were away - doing what again?
The Glorious Revolution wouldn't have happened without the Junta getting everyone to give a crap.
As for what I've been doing for the past year? Life, job, friends. All that stuff.
Though when I left I at least had the decency to leave for a significant amount of time.

I came back for two reasons.
The first was because my friends in this region felt put down by the current "egalitarian" government.
The second? I rather like my RP setup. And I like engaging in it in Taijitu. With the RPers here. Yourself included.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2015, 06:17:30 AM by Prydania »

Offline Prydania

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Re: Ecclesia Improvement Act [Discussion]
« Reply #71 on: November 29, 2015, 06:20:05 AM »
Quote from: Prydania
Well I very much doubt you or Elu would have been up for that had this been a "let's reform the Ecclesia along the lines of the First Taijitu Senate Act" proposal. Maybe threatening to tear it all down (in a perfectly legal manner ;) ) is what it took to make certain people realise that their way of doing things wasn't working.
All it's done is raise the stakes of the debate needlessly high.
Drastic times call for drastic measures. Sometimes you need to shock the establishment into acting via extreme action.

For a region so high on the French Revolution theme? I'd expect this sort of thing to be understood ;)
« Last Edit: November 29, 2015, 06:21:54 AM by Prydania »

Offline Zaradai

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Re: Ecclesia Improvement Act [Discussion]
« Reply #72 on: November 29, 2015, 07:32:44 AM »
Hello everyone. I know I am new here (and by new I mean this is my third post, my only others being getting citizenship and introductions), but please hear me out and consider what I have to say. I am not sure exactly what order I want to put my thoughts in and I'm not really knowledgable in the specifics of politics, and often it will seem like I am rambling on, but everything I say here has a point to it, which will ultimately lead directly into the core of this topic, and so I really fell that I need to say what is on my mind. Remember that is all the perspective of one guy looking from the outside and taking a quick look at everything.
  First, I am making it clear now that when I say "you" I am talking about "all of you here within this thread and those of you who have been actively RPing or GPing for the longest out of all of the citizens(basically long time members). That's right, THIS POST IS FOR ALL OF YOU, ahhh...excuse my caps :P . Since I am new here I can not possibly assume I can tell you how to run your region or your board, I simply wish you take what I have to say into consideration when deciding on whether or not to scrap the government and what to do thereafter. I'll be upfront and honest though, I don't really care about the specifics of what is going to happen or how anything is going to change, but I always hate seeing the destruction of a community and the people within it.
    I would like to address that not many people who are active citizens address their thoughts or wants publicly within these comments, you can look at all of posts within the Ecclesia and you won't find more than three people other than you commenting. It's always you who start and end discussions, and its always you with the post counts ranging in the hundreds(and don't think being here longer has much to do with it). Now look outside the Ecclesia: the general discussion page is filled with all of your faces; the rps and world building is inactive and filled with all of your countries, with some of the regular citizens' countries put on the map but not on the board, many of those rps on the board are incomplete. This very thread, the thread that can literally change the region as we know it forever, and yet it's all you, no one from the outside and no newbie with a fresh mind, just you here, as usual. As I write this, I'm the only one new citizen to speak my mind. Now look at the greetings board. There are so many new people being introduced into Taijitu, and yet so many don't post anything, me included of course. Why is it that so many people join in the boards but then rarely participate? I think I see a few reasons:
   1. also mentioned by a lot of you, the place used to be a ghost board...perhaps people were scared by the inactivity? No there is a bit of activity recently, enough to look like a regular board, the problem is is that this board has a population of around 400(one of you mentioned some point in time the pop was between 350 and 500 or something like that), and an amount of about 7 who get daily sunlight.
   2. The atmosphere around here fells too stuffy/ preppy/ absolutely suffocating while everyone is laughing their butts off. Now don't get me wrong, you all seem like nice people, and the way you all carried out conversations and deal with problems is more civilized than most boards, of course this doesn't apply to everyone but I haven't known you for long. The thing is is that while all of you are having fun and giggling, well, your having fun and giggling because you all have been here so long, you all know each other and you all know the story, but to me and to anyone else who strolls in, all they see is a bunch of laughing people sitting and eating around a moldy table in an abonded Castle(because admit it, your the only ones really here, and your decor is old and unrefined). Also you see all this sillyness, like kittens and such and really silly discussions and then you look at the other posts and you get an array of serious and heavy matters, like "getting activity back", or " changing the entire Taijitu government", and amongst this you still see sarcasm and jokes lying around. I know you all like being funny, but half your threads are serious matters that need to be taken completely seriously. It makes you all look immature, look you don't really care, but perhaps it was because of this next issue.
  3. being too indulged in this fakery. I mean this in two ways, one of which is the fact that before now you all ignored this issue which was apparent from the start, it was always "Jerry left, we need him back, the place just isn't the same", " hey, Jerry's back, I am so glad", "where is all the other members who don't participate", " what do you mean, this is such an egalitarian region the only people who don't participate are those who left and although that is sad, look, we got Jerry and Tom and Lisa, the whole crew, oh look Timmy has been here half a year isn't that fantastic ". The other fakery was that you all try so hard too be funny within a role that yourself has set to bet a serious duty, people like consistency, either be serious within a serious duty, or be funny within a satirical role, mixing the two don't work, yet you all insist your the great elders of the nation, but you act like the joker while you have a tragic backstory, its uncanny.
   4. Jerks. It's doesn't need to be said that jerks will make people leave in an instant, we already see Myr leave because of jerks, and the thing is is that when I first looked at some of the posts, they seemed quite jerkish(if that's a word), I could tell the difference because I use dry humour a lot around my friend, but those not expecting it or those not accustomed to it may see it as unfriendly activity, especially if they don't bother to read the names of the posters.
   You might ask, what is the relevance in this, well here is the revelance: How does a direct democracy work if no one is being direct? How does a representative democracy work if no one is represented? How does a country work if the people don't exist? It doesn't. And that is because the only ones here are you. You all see yourself, you hear yourself, and you agree with your yourself. Because there is noone but yourself. You all WANT WHAT YOU WANT, but every successful country runs on WHAT THE PEOPLE UNDER YOU WANT, and honestly your not even doing the former correctly. If you want simply what you want then nothing good will come of it. You need to see what you HAVE(which I have showed you in the third paragraph and bullet point of this rant), then you decide what you want the RESULT to look like. Then you decide what NEEDS to happen, and if you CAN FIT IN what you WANT to happen. or lack thereof depending on if the situation right now is what one of you had always envisioned the place to be. As for the latter, you can't keep being so closed minded, only a few of you have asked what the others think or want. You can't make an active board unless your active with everyone, no style of government changes that fact. Before you all consider what type of gov or what type of leadership, really look at everything and everyone, before you start disagreements and heavy stuff starts to fill the board(though its a bit too late for that). Everyone has something different they want. But was is truly needed never changes, so you all shouldn't be proposing what you want or don't want for this region, but what this region needs. Haven't you ever heard the expression, "It's not the solution Taijitu wants, it's the solution Taijitu needs.
Seriously, people put stuff in this cramped box...

Offline Gulliver

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Re: Ecclesia Improvement Act [Discussion]
« Reply #73 on: November 29, 2015, 10:05:47 AM »
Quote from: Prydania
Drastic times call for drastic measures. Sometimes you need to shock the establishment into acting via extreme action.
I hardly see how times are "drastic". We have 373 nations and are ranked 27th in the world. In fact, since you returned we had been continuing to grow between Eluvatar purchasing stamps and my finally publishing a manual recruiters' manual. It's only gone down the past few days because 1) Eluvatar's stamps ran out and he didn't want to keep sending the message when there was such uncertain about the future form of the region, and 2) I stopped maintaining the script and manual recruitment infrastructure because I was unsure if people wanted me to stick around.

The current system is imperfect, but it has accomplished enough that I would have hoped it bore building upon rather than discarding. Indeed, initially that's what it sounded like you wanted to do, and we seemed to be off to a good start (e.g. your brainstorming in the Centre Party, the recruitment gains, a prospect of new life in the Militia). All in all this seems like throwing things out without any replacement plan just for the sake of stirring things up, and past experience has shown that's not an effective solution.

Offline obruxo1997

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  • Posts: 6
Re: Ecclesia Improvement Act [Discussion]
« Reply #74 on: November 29, 2015, 01:44:17 PM »
I approve of this.