Taijitu
Forum Meta => The Role Play Council => Archived Role Play Boards => Archive => Proposals and Discussion => Topic started by: Xyrael on March 21, 2007, 11:50:17 PM
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I've noticed both Oz and Myroria are intending to do something which no country has done yet. This is beyond the moon, the types of engines, 100 years to the next star, its absurd. Not only has the RP council not approved the technology, the stance I've heard so far is that even Moon colonies are not allowed. I'm not even sure about the policy on satellites and space stations, the latter of which being an absolute must to refuel the craft for the absurd voyage using any type of real fuel. Show me a ship that detonates nukes from it's ass IRL and i'll let you do it, otherwise save it for the the future RP forums... I don't mind the theoretical research, but if people take these threads as proof they can and just "do it" then i'm highly against this.
Hell, the US can't even get to the moon again, Bush spent $1 billion on NASA saying itll get us to Mars (i fell out of my chair it was so hilarious).... even if the moon landing wasnt staged, which is doubtful, america hasnt done it since, and doesnt know how to do it again. To go from not being able to land on the moon to sending nuclear rockets to another star, well... "yea, right"
Also, if harvesting resources from someplace other than the earth was "profitable" or "feasible", why hasn't the "free market" done it? The only reason we got to space is because the Soviet Union didnt give a damn about profit.
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Well, fuel and logistics aside, the real problem is that if you tried to get anywhere beyond the Earth's or Taijitu's protective magnetic field you'd be fried by all those wonderful high energy cosmic rays and such. Short of building a spaceship out of lead, and I ponder how you'd get that off the ground.
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Then there's another problem of... you travel that fast you're going to have to slow down. You arent gonna abandon a nuclear rocket in space to deploy a small pod and land on the surface, with no feasible way to return to earth. And there's no feasible way to land a rocket and be ensured you can launch it again, most of the stuff we shoot into space ends up crashing in water when it re-enters.
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I don't think cosmic rays are a deal-killer. After all, we DID make it to the moon (conspiracy theories notwithstanding). However, there's a HUGE gap between sending a manned rocket to the moon and sending anything beyond the star system.
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Project Orion. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_%28nuclear_propulsion%29)
This was made in the late '50s. There was only one reason it was canceled: Nuclear test bans. The problems can be overcome, and anyone could get rid of fallout or EMP to the surface by just piggybacking the ship until it was in high orbit, when you jettison it and fly down to let it do it's thing. I'm not sending it to a star, I'm sending it to Orestes, and how come it's so feasable, nay, inavoidable, to get to Mars even though there's cosmic rays? How come deep space probes we sent aren't destroyed yet?
And quite honestly, I don't have to listen to the RP council. I'd love to see you stop me or Oz from doing it.
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Based on that idea, Garth, I present you with the project TIS-1 (laser rifles), nuclear fusion, and HULA (which should be flying right now but DARPA's budget for this year was cut)... I thought after what happened with tech in the Lex we agreed upon not using stuff that wasnt in use, no matter the reason.
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honestly i'll just ignore it.
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as will I, if th RP council doesnt approve it, it or any benefits it gives should be ignored (gotta love winner takes all democracy)
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agreed my friend.
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Go ahead. Ignore it. I really don't give a damn.
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Keep in mind, said mission to the Moon certainly was far from as lengthy as anymore spectacular mission would be, and they enjoyed a distinct lack of any sort of major solar flare or such, which are quite dangerous if you don't have a proper magnetosphere to protect you.
I believe that the moon also passes through the tail end of the Earth's magnetosphere. No idea if this has anything to do with this.
I'm not going to claim any definite knowledge; I've heard conflicting info on just how serious a challenge prolonged exposure to cosmic radiation would pose. Regardless, there still remains the arguments of Xyrael's part anyway.
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Just so you don't feel I'm targetting you, Myro, this post (the original one) named entirely the system Oz was using, I wasn't sure the intention of you post, I only read the first portion. I think both are fudge, and I'll ignore both. Satellites are fine, space stations are fine by me, and civilian space colonies hell i dont have a prob with either. But beyond the moon (maybe mars) should really be left for future RP.
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The whole idea of it is that it detonates a bomb 200 feet behind it, and catches the energy on it's pusher plate. By the time you reach Orestes, the energy will have dimmed because space in a solar system isn't a total vacuum (gravity and things prevent it from being one), so rockets at the front of the ship could easily stop it if timed right.
And I only plan to go to Orestes (Mars except closer to Daedalus), no farther.
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so basically your writing a personal story that will accomplish nothing if everyone ignores it
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Not to mention the needed resources (trading partners) to even fund such a thing.
But enjoy RPing a story no one accepts or supports.
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Is RP no longer about making a story? Is it about resources and bitching? Is RP no longer about having fun, but making up random bullshit to get your way?
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RP is still about story, there's just limits imposed on that story for the sake of order and sanity. It wouldn't do if people were allowed to go blasting off into the depths of space with warp drives, or cast great magical fireballs of doom.
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I'm not asking about going into the depths of space, Oz is. I'm using a slightly post-modern idea about going to Mars with a scientifically sound engine that was grounded because of political correctness.
And how come the Arrival thread is void of all objections? He landed in a space ship coming from deep space, for Christ's sake.
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No one is stopping you or Oz from creating the story. Just anything occuring that effects other nations (in the immediate or long term) due to such a story will be ignored by other RPers.
The same concept applies to the Arrival thread as far as I am concerned.
As for satellites, the Allied States has a network of commerical and military satellites in the sky. No space stations though, for now.
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Nothing will affect you. How would anything affect you from us landing on Orestes?
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And if Arrival is so illegal according to this tyranny by majority, how come it hasn't been ignored yet? How come you specifically target certain dissenters whenever they come close to breaking the unwritten rules of RP, but you let others go with huge godmods with no more than a "Yes, I suppose that is illegal"?
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Heh, even I'm not entirely comfortable with the Arrival thread either :P. I've been going with it under the assurances that the spaceship, power armor and all such things will by the end of it all have been destroyed and forgotten about forever (i.e. it is a temporary if shameless plot device for consistancy and to just get the damn Emperor and Princess together. Or maybe they're all insane and this is their hallucination ;D). Indeed, the spaceship has already been blown to smithereens, and you shan't see Mor'os blasting across the stars anytime soon.
What's more, two wrongs don't make a right to drive that overused adage to death.
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Make the entire arrival thread a massive drug trip that would be completely awesome
end with someone in a room, surrounded by needles saying "that was the craziest trip ever"
!!!!! :drunks: :clap: :drunks: :clap: :-P :drunks:
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indeed. or some dreadlocked kid from bustos talking about it being great acid.
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One, ^ :D
Two,
And if Arrival is so illegal according to this tyranny by majority, how come it hasn't been ignored yet? How come you specifically target certain dissenters whenever they come close to breaking the unwritten rules of RP, but you let others go with huge godmods with no more than a "Yes, I suppose that is illegal"?And if Arrival is so illegal according to this tyranny by majority, how come it hasn't been ignored yet? How come you specifically target certain dissenters whenever they come close to breaking the unwritten rules of RP, but you let others go with huge godmods with no more than a "Yes, I suppose that is illegal"?
What I said...
No one is stopping you or Oz from creating the story. Just if anything occuring that effects other nations (in the immediate or long term) due to such a story will be ignored by other RPers.
The same concept applies to the Arrival thread as far as I am concerned.
I added a 'if' as a better choice of words to my quote. That 'if' comes from anything you might claim to find or special technology you claim for use in RPs with others due to your and Oz's bringing to life of Project Orion.
Go and continue your story, just as Prag n KR have. Why Xy or others feel the need to claim that you cannot have your space story is beyond me. All you have to do is ignore them (as well as me for that matter), as some of us will probably ignore your story and Oz's. Therefore everyone remains happy, yes?
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We won't find any technology, at least not any that can be recreated (Note: I plan to have the explorations on Orestes discover life, HOWEVER, it will be completely and totally extinct and technology is so damaged that it is of no use to anyone.)
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Ehh... I know I'm focusing a bit too intently on Bustos' words, but if "[j]ust anything occuring that effects (sic) other nations (in the immediate or long term) due to such a story will be ignored by other RPers," then what's the point? If it has effect on others, it should be ignored?
What I think of such plotlines is that it's a nice story and should be canon for those parts that don't upset game balance for everyone. Indeed, the players in question should, in this case and others, avoid godmodding like Mor'os and Myro are planning on doing by making the technology merely a curiosity, not a resource. Of course, the incident might give ideas and if people find out, certain things will happen, but in the end it's just a plot device, even though a seemingly wide-affecting one.
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I'm not against the space story, to be honest, but I know that inevitably one of the two will flaunt the fact they did it and say "well, look at this ____, i can do this ______ because ive already been past the moon"
I'm not against a good story, if that's what it is, a story. I don't want to see you importing Orestian iron ore, or Oz importing helium from some star so he can sound like a clown.
Myro, I like the idea of you getting extinct Orestian life in a museum is great, hell go ahead and build a SETI because your people might believe thereare others out there. I just don't want to see you exploiting space. The points I made towards Oz, however, stand. You need to overcome not only the sheer distance and time, but the power source etc. etc. without tainting General RP with a massive rush for technology which doesnt exist yet. It's already rather annoying that there's 5 million pop nations with fully developed economies and aircraft carriers, I can't picture Albania with an aircraft carrier, we don't everyone claiming they have nuclear fusion or submarine/HULA carriers or impenetrable anti-nuke shields. Bustos already has SkyGuards, but I believe him to be willing to admit defeat and play a little more realistically with them. He also has the massive economy to use them.
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I won't exploit space any more than the Apollo missions exploited the moon, if you catch my drift. We'll claim land, but just think of our "colony" as a flag and a plaque. I'm sure America would claim the moon if there were no space land claiming bans.
And, as a side note, Oz mentioned in the shoutbox that his ship isn't going to take a 100 year trip to another star, but that it could. You'll have to get the whole story from him, though.
Perhaps we could make a system like this:
Modern, all today tech should always be recognized if RPed well.
Post-modern or past, dropped tech can be decided by the RPer whether they choose to recognize it or not
Completely crazy tech is ignored.
But that's just a suggestion.
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I'm not against the space story, to be honest, but I know that inevitably one of the two will flaunt the fact they did it and say "well, look at this ____, i can do this ______ because ive already been past the moon"
Come on Xy, have some faith in their rationality. Doing that would influence both the respect they receive as adept roleplayers as well as future effects of their countries actions. If they lead themselves to being ignored once, people will remember that and be more inclined to do so in the future.
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Modern, all today tech should always be recognized if RPed well.
Post-modern or past, dropped tech can be decided by the RPer whether they choose to recognize it or not
Completely crazy tech is ignored.
Ok, I'll go for that.
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i can agree with that as well. perhaps putting it to a vote?
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I haven't made one post in here and yet you all assume so much!
Like Myroria said the only reason he said trip in 100 years was to grab the attention of the council and get them to accept it. It's not an actual feat they are trying to do just a happy little theoretical assumption. I don't know if any of you notice it but there is a difference to Myroria's RP and intentions and my RP and intentions. First off this engine is not going to be likely to be used by manned pilots but rather for new probes that are going to be launched in the deeper parts of our system that we're in now. I have no intentions of launching it with people inside 100 years to another place.. 1) people don't live that long 2) too much money well wasted..
The difference in our RPs is that my RP is in the views of the head researcher while Myroria has his in the eyes of administrators or something I can't tell that can pull information out of their ass about the Ozian Progress.
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/172/431308152_224e6617e1_o.png)
Haha!
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Usually, when one makes a sales pitch, they not only say the greatest thing they can do with the device, but also what they actually plan on doing with it. Since your boy didn't say what he actually wanted to do with it, I came to the assumption that he actually wanted to go to another star in 100 years. I wouldn't accept a sales pitch if the guy never told me what he wanted to do.
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So what's the deal? Is my landing on Orestes ignored, or what?
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For the record, let it be noted that I would rather see current technology take you there, and you construct a space station orbiting Orestes for further research, rather than nuclear pulse propulsion. At any rate, I will not ignore any discovery you make, as long as it doesn't give you real advantages. I don't mind science, I mind nuclear take offs, so might I say this instead:
ARE YOU TESTING NUCLEAR WEAPONS ABOVE GROUND?!?! lol please try something else, project orion itself mentioned that the studies for the receiver disk could use TNT etc. something legal, and that the effects of the propulsion should be tested in space do to *cough* nuclear fallout *cough* we don't need another Marcica, do we?
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TNT would cause more debris than a nuclear explosion, which could harm the crew. And I won't make a colony, at least not one that sends back items and stuff. Also, we are planning to build a space station around Orestes once we test the whole idea that we can get there and back safely.
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So... nuclear fall out cant harm the crew and population? at least test the stuff in former baltija ;D
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The pusher is thick enough to stop the nuclear fallout, according to the article. And when sprayed with oil it doesn't ablate (get thinner) at all. And it'd actually make sense to move the test site to southern Baltija, because there's less danger from nuclear fallout to Taijitu when it is tested near the polar regions.
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The pusher is strong enough to prevent radiation (not fallout) from damaging the actual craft and the people inside, fallout is radioactive and lasts for quite a while, which can not be prevented unless the only thing receiving the blast is the pusher plate which never moves to expose air to radiation. The reason why upper atmospheric explosions would only kill twenty people is that the radiation is high above the atmosphere and only a small amount would come back to the earth, albeit over a very wide distance. With average atmospheric detonations, fallout kills more people than the actual blast does. Another thing, nuclear blasts emit a large pulse of electromagnetic energy, so chances are you aren't going to be able to drive your car away from the test site. Anyways, yes, test it near the south pole. That'd give SD a reason to have bald hicks doing their sisters.
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I'm not launching it from the ground anyway. I'm just testing it there. When it flys it would be piggybacked into space and then jettisonned, where normal rockets would take it outside of our magnetic field, then it'd fire it's nuclear pulse so it's safe. I would just fly out of the fallout after the explosion that would propel the craft anyway.
For instance, look at this:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/55/Magnetosphere_schematic.jpg)
Once the ship got below that line right above the lower "magnetosheath", it seems implausible that the fallout returning to Taijitu would cause any real harm. And, with fusion device, the dangerous fallout is cut in half, and with a pure fusion device, it's little to no fallout.
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Don't use fusion. Nuclear pulse propulsion is at least probable, but fusion...
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Never mind the fusion thing; I reread the Wiki article and it meant that a special fission design could reduce fallout tenfold, not a fusion design. So yes, it will use fission bombs, not fusion ones.
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So funny...
:D
we don't need another Marcica, do we?
And...
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/172/431308152_224e6617e1_o.png)
:clap:
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;D
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Uh oh, what does Oz have up his sleeves?
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/68/166874545_d0749b7b03_o.png)
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:D lol, oz... you have WAY too much fun with pictures :D
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i'm seriously tempted to ask for one mocking my country....
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(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/150/433811720_f9f82fdc79_o.png)
Here you go Uichi :P
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:o :D :clap:
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:o :o :whip: :D wow, oz...
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Make me one.
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Do I smell a potential business for Oz here?
I'd certainly pay for a personalized mockery :D
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(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/186/434413176_444ed4b095_o.png)
What Myrorian lords up to! ^
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/184/434426482_6dbccb41bc_o.png)
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WOW THAT IS ONE FUCKED UP KITTEN!!!
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arr oh ef el
omg hilarious make one for me Oz! I'd pay!
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I'd pay
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maybe send them out as birthday cards.
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(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/186/434413176_444ed4b095_o.png)
No, Peté wouldn't show that much leg. He's the kind of guy that freaks out if he walks in on Fredrika taking a shower or something. The second one is pretty accurate :P.
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Notice I said Myrorian Lord...
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Excuse me then. I assume you implied the ruler, but you were refering to a generic patrician.